And so...the "recession" begins

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wealthiest-10-americans-own-93-033623827.html

The wealthiest 10% of Americans own 93% of stocks even with market participation at a record high
  • The richest Americans own the vast majority of the US stock market, according to Fed data.
  • The top 10% of Americans held 93% of all stocks, the highest level ever recorded.
  • Meanwhile, the bottom 50% of Americans held just 1% of all stocks in the third quarter of 2023.
The wealthiest Americans have never owned so much of the stock market, with the top 10% now holding a record 93% of US equities, according to Federal Reserve data.​
 
MACKTEXAS said:
"The stock market is not the economy. Wall Street isn't Main Street."

WEPndy.jpg
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The stock market, Wall Street and Main Street depend on the economy. I like the word "banal."
 

dilettante said:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wealthiest-10-americans-own-93-033623827.html

The wealthiest 10% of Americans own 93% of stocks even with market participation at a record high
  • The richest Americans own the vast majority of the US stock market, according to Fed data.
  • The top 10% of Americans held 93% of all stocks, the highest level ever recorded.
  • Meanwhile, the bottom 50% of Americans held just 1% of all stocks in the third quarter of 2023.
The wealthiest Americans have never owned so much of the stock market, with the top 10% now holding a record 93% of US equities, according to Federal Reserve data.​
Click to expand...
Ref: Post 155 - It wasn't personal. It is what it is.
In case you overlooked post 142.
 
dilettante said:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/wealthiest-10-americans-own-93-033623827.html

The wealthiest 10% of Americans own 93% of stocks even with market participation at a record high
  • The richest Americans own the vast majority of the US stock market, according to Fed data.
  • The top 10% of Americans held 93% of all stocks, the highest level ever recorded.
  • Meanwhile, the bottom 50% of Americans held just 1% of all stocks in the third quarter of 2023.
The wealthiest Americans have never owned so much of the stock market, with the top 10% now holding a record 93% of US equities, according to Federal Reserve data.​
Click to expand...
That's interesting, but when I worked, everyone in my department of 32 employees was into the stock market in their 401K except me, and some of them never recouped the losses they experienced before retiring. There was a lot of tension in 2008 when the markets crashed.
 
MACKTEXAS said:
That's interesting, but when I worked, everyone in my department of 32 employees was into the stock market in their 401K except me, and some of them never recouped the losses they experienced before retiring. There was a lot of tension in 2008 when the markets crashed.
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there always is tension and stress when markets turn down .

that is why they pay higher returns when up .

you can’t have gain without pain when it comes to markets .

its time in the markets not timing the markets that create these gains over no risk investments
 
The numbers are interesting but they don’t tell the true story.

We should all concentrate on our own situation and make the best choices we can to create a good living out of what we have available.

“Comparison with something that is better is the thief of joy. Comparison with something that is worse is a joy - full of relief and gratitude! You cannot always choose what happens to you or your circumstances but you can always choose your attitude by what you choose to compare your experiences or circumstances to and therefore how you will feel!! We can make any experience either a heaven or a hell by what we compare it to. Our emotions are 'an inside job!'”
- Theodore Roosevelt
 
mathjak107 said:
there always is tension and stress when markets turn down .

that is why they pay higher returns when up .

you can’t have gain without pain when it comes to markets .

its time in the markets not timing the markets that create these gains over no risk investments
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We know this. There was greater pain when employees were near retirement and there wasn't time to reap the benefits of higher returns when up.

And what you said in this post made sense to me - this part: "this time may be very different because it isn’t just the natural market cycle doing its thing like flu season on us."
 
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MACKTEXAS said:
That's interesting, but when I worked, everyone in my department of 32 employees was into the stock market in their 401K except me, and some of them never recouped the losses they experienced before retiring. There was a lot of tension in 2008 when the markets crashed.
Click to expand...

Not banal at all. Absolutely fascinating, brilliant and to the point.
 
dilettante said:
The wealthiest Americans have never owned so much of the stock market, with the top 10% now holding a record 93% of US equities, according to Federal Reserve data.
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This is true, but the other 90% are risking what little they have as much, maybe more, than the 10%. "Wiped out" is wiped out in either situation and it affects 100% of investors, as well as those who can't afford to invest. Statistics about what arbitrary segment has the most invested don't seem relevant to the issue.
 
JustDave said:
This is true, but the other 90% are risking what little they have as much, maybe more, than the 10%. "Wiped out" is wiped out in either situation and it affects 100% of investors, as well as those who can't afford to invest. Statistics about what arbitrary segment has the most invested don't seem relevant to the issue.
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I understand the concern and fear of the unknown but if the 90% believe that the markets will go to zero and that they will be wiped out they really should have never gotten into the market.

Selling now guarantees a loss and timing the market is virtually impossible for the average person.

IMO it will be best for the average person to ride it out, at least until things recover and then give some thought to cashing in if that makes sense in their situation.
 
Aunt Bea said:
I understand the concern and fear of the unknown but if the 90% believe that the markets will go to zero and that they will be wiped out they really should have never gotten into the market.

Selling now guarantees a loss and timing the market is virtually impossible for the average person.

IMO it will be best for the average person to ride it out, at least until things recover and then give some thought to cashing in if that makes sense in their situation.
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markets won’t go to zero , but draw rates can be severely effected by balances .

do we know if this will be a quick v-shaped recovery or another lost decade ?

that is the problem .

anything that has a downturn go on more then ayear or two can have severe sequence of return effects.

even the standard 4% inflation adjusted safe withdrawal rate is based on seeing about a 2-1/2% real return , meaning after inflation over the first half of a 30 year retirement for it to hold .

we have had multiple times where that failed to hold and pay cuts in draw had to be taken

spending down in retirement is more dependent on the sequences of your gains and losses then average returns
 
Aunt Bea said:
What does wiped out mean to you?🤔
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nothing in a term that means much . as wiped out can mean different things to different people .

wiped out would mean to me a 1929 great depression.

but again wiped out is relative .

you were whole again from thev1929 crash assuming you were in broad based funds in just 4-1/2 years.

dividends ran 14% and are not calculated in the market numbers like the dow or s&p .

the cpi fell 18% so you needed 18% less to have all your purchasing power back you had prior.

a better question is how much of a balance hit can you take before a draw has to be cut .

dont forget going from a 4% to 3% is a 25% pay cut
 
So the economy has begun a gradual tilt once more from favoring the asset class to not starving the working class. The stock market bubble has slightly deflated but it's still at historic highs.

So much alarmism caught from media sloganeering... or is it greed?
 
Just reading the various posts it's clear facing the unknown is taking it's toll.

What a difference time & age makes. I remember in the 70's when prices were frozen. Back then we were vulnerable. I can appreciate the concern those that are vulnerable now have.

I am thankfull that during the 50 years since circumstances made it possible for us to position ourselves to be unaffected by whatever comes of this.

My hope is that this action causing chaos worldwide is short lived.
 

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