And the shootings go on and on , and on, and on...

treeguy64 said:
You are missing the reason for all of the horrible things going on: There are simply too many people in the world, today. Unconscionable over-breeding is the main reason we are in the horrendous situation that exists. Too many people are disenfranchised, finding themselves adrift in a sea of people who don't care about them, who ignore them or, worse, bully/mock them. Up close and personal interactions, especially those that provide comfort, relief and support, are hard to come by, even in one's own family, when said family consists of a brood whose offspring breed like rabbits. Confused and bitter, the rejected seek revenge.

Yeah, guns are readily available, easy to get for those planning a final reckoning with their imagined and/or real tormentors. That's beside the point, though. Read up on multiple killings involving knives, bombs, etc. Our species is good at improvising: If guns aren't available, then the rage of the deranged will find other ways to carry out mass killings.

When it comes to guns and their availability, there can be only one, unarguable truism to be stated, and restated: If owning guns is outlawed, only outlaws will own guns! No debate possible, sorry
​
The rodent cage experiments of the late 50's, early 60's, on overpopulation, greatly effected my way of thinking about our world. Those experiments helped explain so much of what we're seeing, now. The terrible thing is, they also show that things will only get worse, as our population continues to swell.
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So what are we supposed to do about the disenfranchised masses?
 
a
chic said:
So what are we supposed to do about the disenfranchised masses?
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There is no solution to runaway population growth, except to discourage or legally prohibit the large families that keep expanding, unconscionably. China had a good idea that was implemented poorly, and then modified over time.

As far as identifying those who may become crazed serial killers, it comes down to informing the correct parties when you come across those who are showing signs of being deeply disturbed and dangerous to themselves and others.

Ultimately, there probably will not be a solution. Our species seems to be rushing towards its end. I expect that mass murders will become daily occurrences, in the coming years, and we will adjust as best we can.
 
StarSong said:
Your post has me in tears, @911. How unspeakably dreadful for everyone.
As terrible as the planned massacres are - and they are indeed horrific - the majority of gun murders in this country seem to be spur-of-the-moment idiocy that only resulted in deaths because guns were handy. (This recent shooting in Odessa, TX, would be a prime example.)

Has that been your experience, or is my perspective skewed?
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I was the second Trooper on the scene when a man entered an Amish school and initially took everyone inside the one-room school hostage. Once he secured the room, he released the boys, keeping the teacher and 10 girls. He shot 8 of the girls and killed 5 of the eight, 2 of them were sisters. After killing the girls, he then killed him self. There were no negotiations. I did not investigate this case because I was on patrol duty that day.

I did investigate a son killing his father. We also had a Trooper kill his pregnant wife accidentally. He did do jail time. How, or why do these things happen. There is no one-size fits all answer.
 
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I remember well that horrific shooting at the Amish school and recall the Amish community's remarkable faith in the wake of it.

What a heartbreaking scene that must have been for the families and first responders like yourself.
 
treeguy64 said:
a

There is no solution to runaway population growth, except to discourage or legally prohibit the large families that keep expanding, unconscionably. China had a good idea that was implemented poorly, and then modified over time.

As far as identifying those who may become crazed serial killers, it comes down to informing the correct parties when you come across those who are showing signs of being deeply disturbed and dangerous to themselves and others.

Ultimately, there probably will not be a solution. Our species seems to be rushing towards its end. I expect that mass murders will become daily occurrences, in the coming years, and we will adjust as best we can.
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Are you saying saying our species seems to be rushing towards its end is God's plan?
 
911 said:
I was the second Trooper on the scene when a man entered an Amish school and initially took everyone inside the one-room school hostage. Once he secured the room, he released the boys, keeping the teacher and 10 girls. He shot 8 of the girls and killed 5 of the eight, 2 of them were sisters. After killing the girls, he then killed him self. There were no negotiations. If I’d not investigate this case because I was on patrol duty that day.

I did investigate a son killing his father. We also had Trooper kill his pregnant wife accidentally. He did do jail time. How, or why do these things happen. There is no one-size fits all answer.
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If the Amish had a gun they wouldn't shoot the man.
 
Personally, I blame the breakdown of family values coupled with the insane amount of hate and divisiveness on the various social media platforms. Many parents are too busy taking selfies and worrying about their Kardashian-inspired lives to notice that their children are being raised as selfish, bullying, entitled brats without moral compass. They allow computers, cellphones, etc. to be the "babysitter" instead of focusing on raising a responsible, even-tempered child. Guns or no guns, the insanity is not going to stop.
 
As previously suggested why not feed a super computer all the information available like where, when, how many years, type of gun, gun laws in place, what country has the least death by guns and any other information that more learned people than me can think of to see what the analytical result is from a non human.
 
People keep crying do something.........And again I ask, do what ?

Suggestions/demands......... end all gun sales, OK, and just how long do we think that will take . That will require a change in / amendment to, the constitution . Then the next thing will be the states appeals, etc. It would take 300 years for it to take effect .......... And make allot of rich lawyers along the way.

Next cry is to take away all existing guns. ....... OK, be ready for one of the bloodiest conflicts in American history......many,many innocents will die, on both sides of the conflict.

Then comes, gun buy-back.....yeah right, like that will happen.

There is virtually nothing that can be done when some half crazed/fully crazed person decides that the taking of someone else's life, or the lives of several someone else's is somehow going to correct what he sees as wrong in their own life.

IMO , once again , the only thing that makes any sense is swift & sure prosecution & severe punishment after such horrible incidents . And again let the public know that it has happened. Maybe then, these people will realize what is waiting for them , and ........ they will die at the hand of the people ....... so-to-speak................jmo
 
C'est Moi said:
Personally, I blame the breakdown of family values coupled with the insane amount of hate and divisiveness on the various social media platforms. Many parents are too busy taking selfies and worrying about their Kardashian-inspired lives to notice that their children are being raised as selfish, bullying, entitled brats without moral compass. They allow computers, cellphones, etc. to be the "babysitter" instead of focusing on raising a responsible, even-tempered child. Guns or no guns, the insanity is not going to stop.
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I agree here, but how do we change [other] peoples behavior ? And their chosen way of life ?
 
Knight said:
As previously suggested why not feed a super computer all the information available like where, when, how many years, type of gun, gun laws in place, what country has the least death by guns and any other information that more learned people than me can think of to see what the analytical result is from a non human.
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And then do what with this information ?
 
rgp said:
People keep crying do something.........And again I ask, do what ?

Suggestions/demands......... end all gun sales, OK, and just how long do we think that will take . That will require a change in / amendment to, the constitution . Then the next thing will be the states appeals, etc. It would take 300 years for it to take effect .......... And make allot of rich lawyers along the way.

Next cry is to take away all existing guns. ....... OK, be ready for one of the bloodiest conflicts in American history......many,many innocents will die, on both sides of the conflict.

Then comes, gun buy-back.....yeah right, like that will happen.

There is virtually nothing that can be done when some half crazed/fully crazed person decides that the taking of someone else's life, or the lives of several someone else's is somehow going to correct what he sees as wrong in their own life.

IMO , once again , the only thing that makes any sense is swift & sure prosecution & severe punishment after such horrible incidents . And again let the public know that it has happened. Maybe then, these people will realize what is waiting for them , and ........ they will die at the hand of the people ....... so-to-speak................jmo
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The problem with that is....most of these perpetrators are not only willing to die, they WANT to die. They frequently commit suicide before they're arrested.
 
win231 said:
The problem with that is....most of these perpetrators are not only willing to die, they WANT to die. They frequently commit suicide before they're arrested.
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I agree it might not have effect on all the potential killers , but it might 'reach' a few of them. Besides, doing as I suggest saves tax dollars. By ending the seemingly endless appeals process . If they are beyond doubt guilty? Put'em in the ground.

Everything we are doing .... does not seem to work. Time to change . And anything involving the 'removal' of weapons is IMO out of reality.
 
The problem lies in the American Character, the elements of the problem can be pieced together and defined, if we do not throw
up our hands and say, 'That won't work in America.'

Switzerland: every able bodied male does 265 days of military training, target shooting is a national pastime, many, many citizens own their rifles, no automatic weapons, shooting range activities are a family active. Yet, no mass shootings.

The Aussies, one mass killing, 38 people...Govt enacted gun control seized 600,000 weapons (voluntary turn-ins)
Killings were in 1996, none since that time.

There are many solutions, we must try them all. Some won't work, some partial, do not give up, combine the elements that have limited success until you have a semi-solution; then keep amending, amending.
Our politicians posture, lie, are for sale-- cheap, -big problem, plus the elections bring new blood in ever two years-how do we keep the
problem on the congressional table?

I am part of the problem, currently have several firearms; I've never lived in a home without guns. You want me to give up my firearms?
That is a problem.

The problem can be solved, with resolve, on-going resolve from each political administration to the next administration,
We must hold those that enact legislation perpetual attention. That we do not lies in the lack of resolve with you and I.

The problem can be solved, it will take 10-20 years. American's are notorious for their short attention spans.

Mental Illness is not the problem, other nations have as many people with mental illness (per capita) as we do.
It is a combination of traits, that involve you and me, because we live here.

There is a post regarding the 'duck and roll-,for school kids in the 1950's (A-bombs).
When rounds from a weapon are heard, 'GO TO GROUND,' then determine the source of the gun fire. Those standing upright
are easy targets.
We have open carry in Texas,; those like me do not merit a license. How do you measure one's temper control before issuing an open carry
license? That's a problem that can be solved, but it will take money and perseverance...We are short on both traits.
We can find a solution, but were too lazy to expend the labor, time (several years) and money.
 
AnnieA said:
Growing up, it wasn't unusual to see guys at my high school that drove pickups and hunted to have a couple of rear window rifle mounts at school. But that was during deer season, and they stuck to deer, not humans. WTH has changed?
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A high dollar rifle in pickup was a status symbol. Males and females lusted for a deer rifle that others would 'OOooohh and ahhhhh' over.
In the 1970's they disappeared, don't know the status now but with open carry, if not open carry, then it is legal to have a firearm in your car, it can't be illegal.
To me, a person with a gun openly displayed is saying, "I will shoot you.'
 
AnnieA said:
'Solutions' from polar opposite views and both would bring about full out war zone scenarios.
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People will be allowed to carry guns in churches & synagogues

On the lighter side, regarding several TV preachers, a bullet in the butt may be helpful in correcting their theological stance of 'send me money.'
 
rgp said:
And then do what with this information ?
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Present the results to the American public. For example suppose the analysis came back with a list of laws that showed the most promise country wide. Also recommending deletion of those hat haven't worked at all in any state. The analysis showed a method of identifying those most likely to misuse a gun.

If mankind can be shown how to build, guide, fuel & set a mechanical explorer on Mars. I tend to think analysis of the factors involved in why gun deaths are on the rise could use some Artificial Intelligence

Unlike polls inputting factual data to be analyzed is as far as I know not been tried. Relying on human instinct doesn't seem to be working.
 
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Hard to see how all the resistance to gun legislation has helped us - seems we've given this particular experiment a good run and it's not done too well. A smart person once said: "insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results."
 

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