Been There
Well-known Member
- Location
- Florida
Nathan--I don't think there are over 8,000,000 living in Chicago. Or are you including all of Cook County?
Another Day, Another Shooting
- Thread starter Been There
- Start date
Probably greater Chicago metropolitan area.
Really? We don't always get reasons because of the tendency of the shooter to kill himself at the end, but the mass shootings that come to my mind are first of all the school shootings which have nothing to do with race, then things like the gambler in LA who shot into the concert crowd or the shooter in Sutherland Springs Texas who shot thirty White Anglo-Saxon Christians while they sat in church. Yes, there was the white killer who went into a black church and there have been attacks against Muslims, but that isn't the reason in the majority of cases. There have been all sorts of reasons and race hatred has been included, but it's definitely not the main reason.
This idea that white Christians have caused all the problems in the history of the world is very popular right now and it's easy to find examples because they were the power group for centuries, the British Empire in particular, and they had people educated enough to record history, but I don't agree that their religion or their skin color that was the reason.
If all the evil comes from religion as Steven Weinberg would have it then those countries that have pretty much ended religion, like Russia, must be full of kind, wonderful harmless people, right?
The TRUTH, is not that America is dangerous because of White Anglo-Saxon Christians as Win and others would have it, but because we have the most guns.
Beezer
Well-known Member
I'd also like to add the following...
The humour in the United States is most often 'at ya'...or 'in your face'...very little self-deprecation. Probably arises from having to be the world's policeman.
A poor cultural sense of humour + more guns than citizens is a toxic mix. The inability to be able to collectively laugh at themselves on occasion...on any occasion for that matter...breeds an undercurrent of darkness and discontent, sometimes leading to these violent outbursts.
The Brits and Canadians have much stricter gun laws and better dispositions with regard to good-natured humour...resulting in less mass shootings in my opinion.
And I love our neighbours to the South. Just tossing around some ideas as to why these violent occurrences are so exclusive to America.
The humour in the United States is most often 'at ya'...or 'in your face'...very little self-deprecation. Probably arises from having to be the world's policeman.
A poor cultural sense of humour + more guns than citizens is a toxic mix. The inability to be able to collectively laugh at themselves on occasion...on any occasion for that matter...breeds an undercurrent of darkness and discontent, sometimes leading to these violent outbursts.
The Brits and Canadians have much stricter gun laws and better dispositions with regard to good-natured humour...resulting in less mass shootings in my opinion.
And I love our neighbours to the South. Just tossing around some ideas as to why these violent occurrences are so exclusive to America.
Paladin1950
Still love 50's & 60's music!
- Location
- Mohawk Valley, NY
Here in the States, there are those who keep preaching: "Guns don't kill people. People kill people". I get so bleeping mad when I hear that. They know they are lying. They make it sound like a person walks into a school and says, "Bang! Bang!". And then people drop dead. The real truth is: People with guns, kill people!. An innocent child is lying in a pool of blood. There is a hole in his/her chest. What caused the hole? A bullet did. Therefore, guns do kill people.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
Kitchen knives ... baseball bats ... automobiles ... All sort of things kill people ... when in the hands of other people.
Nathan
SF VIP
- Location
- High Desert- Calif.
Got that figure here: https://www.macrotrends.net/cities/22956/chicago/population
CarolfromTX
Senior Member
- Location
- Central Texas
Stick to your talking points. That’s baloney.
Nathan
SF VIP
- Location
- High Desert- Calif.
Let's set the record straight: the point was NOT "because of" White Anglo-Saxon Christian males, the point was /is that some White Anglo-Saxon Christian males have some specific mental health issues, and that is the truth.
The issues:
A deep seated sense of entitlement, and a mind consuming fear that they will lose that centuries old advantage that white, "Christian" men have enjoyed in this country. Also, a gut gnawing rage in seeing people enjoy their rights...their lives, people that those white Christian males feel superior to, minorities, recent immigrants, those in the LBGTQ community.
Shalimar
SF VIP
- Location
- Vancouver Island Canada
Then there is their rage around women.
Been There
Well-known Member
- Location
- Florida
Yeah, I get it. The number includes the entire Chicago area, including Cook County. I thought the number was referring only to the city of Chicago. Sorry about that.
oldpop
Member
- Location
- Inner Space
JMO, Round and around we go. What is the solution? Live in the solution.
Well yes, yes indeed some white Anglo Saxon Christians have mental health issues, as do some Asians some African Americans some Jewish people some Muslims. "Some" never proved anything. Neither does your twice repeated armchair psychological profile of the typical murderer. When I look at mass murder situations I see a lot of bullied teenagers with low self-esteem, a lot of domestic violence that starts at home and spills over into anyone else they encounter, and of course endless murders that are drug and gang related.
I know the type of person you're describing and while those people are despicable I don't see them topping the charts on mass murder situations.
^^^ Strange & faulty logic. You're implying that an inanimate object like a gun that has no will of its own is capable of evil.
Ever seen a gun hurt anyone without a human holding it?
Obviously, you don't want to admit that people are evil.
fuzzybuddy
SF VIP
- Location
- The Sticks, Northeast PA.
We should arm everyone with the latest megashot weapon, and on their birthday, they get 250,000 free rounds of ammo. Of course, the weapons will only be sensibly used. We'll see if that loud guy talks during the movie., ever again. Or, it could be because it's Monday, or whatever.
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squatting dog
We don't have as far to go, as we've already been
- Location
- Arkansas, and also Florida
Nathan
SF VIP
- Location
- High Desert- Calif.
Again, you're missing the point, which was in regards to "some", and was not an effort to "prove" anything. You can say "everybody does it" and be technically correct, but that's just a smokescreen to divert attention from a specific issue in discussion.
@Della, being a white-Christian-male myself, I appreciate having someone "in my corner", defending our kind, but being in denial of the truth is simply being part of the problem.
Here's a chart you might find to be of interest(click to enlarge or go to this link):
Attachments
Alizerine
Senior Member
Not typical but the Christian church where I grew up and was married in, flies a rainbow flag.
Or cuts in front of anyone at McDonald's.
Nathan I never denied that most mass murderers were white. I just don't agree with the point you and Win seem to be making that they murdered because they were white Christians. I think that's a very racist and bigoted point of view. I pointed out that most individual (non-mass) murders were done by African Americans but added that it was not the skin color that caused the violence but the poverty and crime in their lives.
Why does it even matter if it's a "mass" murder or individual one? The people are all just as dead whether they died inside a group or by a lone drive-by shooter.
If you think the reason white men kill is "A deep seated sense of entitlement, and a mind consuming fear that they will lose that centuries old advantage that white, "Christian" men have enjoyed in this country," why do you think black men are even more likely to kill? Do they have a deep seated sense of entitlement and fear of losing their advantages?
Yes. I just watched the documentary on Tubi about our first modern day mass shooter, Brenda Spencer, who took the rifle her father had bought her for her 16th birthday and shot up the school across the street. Telling the police later, "I don't like Mondays."
She was white, but I don't think she was a Christian and I don't think she had a strong sense of entitlement. She was just depressed and angry and had a gun. Sure, she could have run across the street with a baseball bat or a knife, but she probably wouldn't have had the nerve to do that.
Having a gun makes killing so much easier.
I get frustrated when the "rock", "knife", "hammer" excuse is tossed out. Every other civilized country on Earth has rocks and knives and hammers. They don't have firearms... firearms that will discharge dozens of rounds in minutes... in the hands of the untrained, mentally ill, etc. None of those civilized countries have the daily mass slaughter by firearms as we see here in the U.S. The firearm lobby uses the 2nd Amendment... and millions of dollars in lobbying disbursements... to keep more and more firearms on the streets. Most states require no training in the use of or the safe handling of firearms.
Until the U.S. tires of the slaughter, gets the money out of politics, and we have a SCOTUS that will rule a "well regulated militia" is a far cry from assault rifles in the hands of every Tom, Dick, and Harry on the street.
Until the U.S. tires of the slaughter, gets the money out of politics, and we have a SCOTUS that will rule a "well regulated militia" is a far cry from assault rifles in the hands of every Tom, Dick, and Harry on the street.
Nathan
SF VIP
- Location
- High Desert- Calif.
I'll stop trying to explain what I said, apparently the printed word has it's limitations....