Another government program that is a disgrace!

treeguy64

treeguy64

Hari Om, y'all!
Location
Austin, TX.
I just listened to a news piece on the following program, so some of the details may not be exactly correct, depending on how thoroughly the news team did their research.

In the piece, details were given about a loan forgiveness program the US Government has for students who take jobs in the public sector, like teaching and nursing. According to the piece, 99% of people who apply are rejected! Unbelievable.

Where this piece hit home, for me: A young lady who is trying to get into the program, after getting her doctorate in Biology, and going into teaching, bemoaned how nobody who works for the program knows what they're taking about, each time she calls to check on her app, which has been repeatedly rejected. She said that without the loan forgiveness program, she will be in debt until she's sixty-two!

I can relate to her experience of dealing with ignorant government program workers: When I applied to increase my social security benefits, I dealt with seven agents. I was given information that was 100% wrong, by six of them! Different agents told me opposite things. My projected, monthly increase varied from four hundred to eight hundred dollars, with some agents telling me that I'd get a back payment check of up to eight thousand dollars! When I became an expert on my own case, and calculated I'd get about an extra one hundred dollars a month, with no back payment check, I kept demanding an agent who specialized in cases like mine, and finally got one. Her figures were within ten dollars of mine, and that's what I now am expecting, starting this month. It took five months to straighten out my case.

I empathize with those who are trying to get into the program, as above. I can only imagine their frustration as they get different information from different agents. Been there, done that!

The whole government bureaucracy trip is getting much worse, as our population swells. Totally unqualified, ignorant workers are hired to simply fill spaces. Training is terrible or non-existent. The US Mail system started heading into the toilet in the 70's, when mandatory hiring policies put folks in post offices who could barely read or speak proper English. To this day, I get mail for the house next door to me, and a house down the street gets my mail, such is the ignorance of mail carriers, these days.

Have you had tear your hair out dealings with your government's programs? Did you get things resolved to your satisfaction? How did you do so? How long did it take?
 

treeguy64 said:
I just listened to a news piece on the following program, so some of the details may not be exactly correct, depending on how thoroughly the news team did their research.

In the piece, details were given about a loan forgiveness program the US Government has for students who take jobs in the public sector, like teaching and nursing. According to the piece, 99% of people who apply are rejected! Unbelievable.

Where this piece hit home, for me: A young lady who is trying to get into the program, after getting her doctorate in Biology, and going into teaching, bemoaned how nobody who works for the program knows what they're taking about, each time she calls to check on her app, which has been repeatedly rejected. She said that without the loan forgiveness program, she will be in debt until she's sixty-two!

I can relate to her experience of dealing with ignorant government program workers: When I applied to increase my social security benefits, I dealt with seven agents. I was given information that was 100% wrong, by six of them! Different agents told me opposite things. My projected, monthly increase varied from four hundred to eight hundred dollars, with some agents telling me that I'd get a back payment check of up to eight thousand dollars! When I became an expert on my own case, and calculated I'd get about an extra one hundred dollars a month, with no back payment check, I kept demanding an agent who specialized in cases like mine, and finally got one. Her figures were within ten dollars of mine, and that's what I now am expecting, starting this month. It took five months to straighten out my case.

I empathize with those who are trying to get into the program, as above. I can only imagine their frustration as they get different information from different agents. Been there, done that!

The whole government bureaucracy trip is getting much worse, as our population swells. Totally unqualified, ignorant workers are hired to simply fill spaces. Training is terrible or non-existent. The US Mail system started heading into the toilet in the 70's, when mandatory hiring policies put folks in post offices who could barely read or speak proper English. To this day, I get mail for the house next door to me, and a house down the street gets my mail, such is the ignorance of mail carriers, these days.

Have you had tear your hair out dealings with your government's programs? Did you get things resolved to your satisfaction? How did you do so? How long did it take?
Click to expand...

Nope but I've had tear you hair out confrontations with major corporations.
 
If we knew all that goes on in government we would set fire to it. One politician said recently about passing legislation they are overwhelmed with lobbyists, lawyers, meetings, scheduled speaking engagements and fund raisers so they basically get nothing passed.
 

C'est Moi said:
I'll just say that as someone who never took a loan that I didn't repay, I'm not very sympathetic to those seeking "loan forgiveness." If you agreed to repay a loan, then do it.
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I think you may have an incorrect understanding of the program: It exists to incentivize students, who have loans, to go into public sector positions, with their degrees. So, a nurse might take a job at a public health clinic, instead of a private doctor's office, a PhD holder might teach in an inner city program, instead of an Ivy League college. This program is good for the public at large, good for the loan holder.

I totally agree with you that when a loan is taken out, it should be paid back, but this program does balance the debt of the debtor with the gains of those who wouldn't otherwise benefit from the loan holder's degree. I see it as a win/win deal.
 
When I was able to return to work after my stroke I kept getting disability checks that I should not get. I would call each month and note who I spoke with and asked they stop my payments. They would not stop them and I kept calling. I opened a separate account at the Bank and deposited them there. Then I get a threatening letter demanding repayment and asking if I needed a payment plan. I called and recited to a specialist who I spoke with and the dates. Sent them a check and that's that. That is our government at work. How many people keep those payments and have a problem repaying it? I worked as an accountant too long to trust them!
 
treeguy64 said:
I think you may have an incorrect understanding of the program: It exists to incentivize students, who have loans, to go into public sector positions, with their degrees. So, a nurse might take a job at a public health clinic, instead of a private doctor's office, a PhD holder might teach in an inner city program, instead of an Ivy League college. This program is good for the public at large, good for the loan holder.

I totally agree with you that when a loan is taken out, it should be paid back, but this program does balance the debt of the debtor with the gains of those who wouldn't otherwise benefit from the loan holder's degree. I see it as a win/win deal.
Click to expand...

The student debt crisis is and should be considered an embarrassment to our country. There's plenty of blame to go around, from exorbitant interest rates to outrageously high tuition, to outlandishly expensive textbooks (many required texts being written by the course professors), to the misguided belief that all HS grads need a BA or BS, to the next misguided belief that the college experience needs to include a far-off school meaning living independently of family, so travel and living expenses ratchet up the costs even further.

Treeguy, you've got it right. If our government offers a program, we need to make good on it. But there has to be a ceiling on what gets covered (tuition only, perhaps).
 
I guess I've led a charmed life, I've never had a problem with the federal government or any of its agencies.

As far as the student loan crisis goes it's just another glimpse of people in America living beyond their means and not taking responsibility for their actions.

Now just to confuse you all I am in favor of free college tuition for kids that successfully complete a degree program at a local community or state college even though I will have to pick up a portion of the tab for it.
 
Trade said:
All student loans should be cancelled. College should be free like it is in most of Europe. As for the creditors that would lose out, so what? They're just loan sharks anyway.
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Nothing is "free." More debt for the taxpayers, and frankly I'm not willing to take on debt of dead-beats who mostly dropped out of college because they didn't belong there in the first place.
 
My long-held views on college: Community and state colleges - first year free for everybody, thereafter merit based. Exceptional grades - full rides, Average grades - tuition free, Poor grades - tuition free through 2nd year. All would have sensible exceptions for occasional lapses but overall consistency required. First year should be in home state, after that any state. Same rules apply to students who are only there for sports.

This would ensure that any student who is intelligent and willing to work for it could get an education. It would eliminate the ones who look at college and education as a means of getting away from home and partying. And yes, it looks like socialism but socialistic programs do have their virtues; for example, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, police, fire, public libraries, minimum wage requirements to name a few. They are all socialistic in nature and America loves them all even if imperfections exist.
 
I agree with opposing views, interestingly, but I think there are qualifications to be made: The loan forgiveness program applies only to those who COMPLETE a degree program AND take jobs, in their field, in distressed areas. I am not in favor of forgiving loans of those who go to college to party, and then flunk out, after a year, or two.
 
treeguy64 said:
I agree with opposing views, interestingly, but I think there are qualifications to be made: The loan forgiveness program applies only to those who COMPLETE a degree program AND take jobs, in their field, in distressed areas. I am not in favor of forgiving loans of those who go to college to party, and then flunk out, after a year, or two.
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I agree. There is a looming shortage of Primary Care doctors and nurses...especially in the more rural areas. The vast majority of today's med students are trying to get into a specialty...since that is where the big money is. Any med student who wants to commit to working in an underserved area would be a Great candidate for loan forgiveness....IMO. Conversely, someone going to college for some semi-useless degree in Liberal Arts can do so on their own nickel.
 
treeguy64 said:
I just listened to a news piece on the following program, so some of the details may not be exactly correct, depending on how thoroughly the news team did their research. In the piece, details were given about a loan forgiveness program the US Government has for students who take jobs in the public sector, like teaching and nursing. According to the piece, 99% of people who apply are rejected! Unbelievable.
Click to expand...
A report I found said, "71 percent of all applications were considered ineligible for the program because they hadn't submitted a required PSLF application (Public Service Loan Forgiveness), with the report labeling the process as "confusing for borrowers."

Just an fyi, recently an executive order was signed on Aug. 21, forgiving all student loan debt for any permanently disabled U.S. military veteran.
 
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Lara said:
A report I found said, "71 percent of all applications were considered ineligible for the program because they hadn't submitted a required PSLF application (Public Service Loan Forgiveness), with the report labeling the process as "confusing for borrowers."

Just an fyi, recently an executive order was signed on Aug. 21, forgiving all student loan debt for any permanently disabled U.S. military veteran.
Click to expand...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...ions-for-student-loan-forgiveness-program.amp
 
Yes, I saw that Treeguy in the same report I read so I figured the 71% is part of that 99% with a specific reason related to not submitting a required PSLF application. The other 28% was for different reasons. That's how I read it anyway.
 
My son-in-law (a public school teacher) said that the DOE keeps changing the rules of what must be submitted. Several of the rule changes have restarted the 10 year clock.

Betsy DeVos is hell-bent on making this as difficult as possible. Google it if you don't believe me.
 
StarSong said:
The student debt crisis is and should be considered an embarrassment to our country. There's plenty of blame to go around, from exorbitant interest rates to outrageously high tuition, to outlandishly expensive textbooks (many required texts being written by the course professors), to the misguided belief that all HS grads need a BA or BS, to the next misguided belief that the college experience needs to include a far-off school meaning living independently of family, so travel and living expenses ratchet up the costs even further.

Treeguy, you've got it right. If our government offers a program, we need to make good on it. But there has to be a ceiling on what gets covered (tuition only, perhaps).
Click to expand...
You know, sometimes I think we're raising a next generation of over educated, poverty mentality stricken kids, many of which do not pay back their exorbitant school loans. Know one that keeps sending in payment "extensions". I ask her about it and she said "they (the loans) will be forgiven in the future - by the government."
 
Liberty said:
You know, sometimes I think we're raising a next generation of over educated, poverty mentality stricken kids, many of which do not pay back their exorbitant school loans. Know one that keeps sending in payment "extensions". I ask her about it and she said "they (the loans) will be forgiven in the future - by the government."
Click to expand...
That's a truly harsh assessment of a largely responsible, bright, hard-working generation that is trying desperately to right a world that previous generations have all but permanently destroyed.

There are examples of bad behavior in any group, but just as Boomers detested the unfair generalizing of our generation, please resist the temptation to paint young people with a single brush.

I, for one, have great hope that Millennials and beyond will start to undo the terrible damage earlier generations have done to our environment and government.
 
Liberty said:
You know, sometimes I think we're raising a next generation of over educated, poverty mentality stricken kids, many of which do not pay back their exorbitant school loans. Know one that keeps sending in payment "extensions". I ask her about it and she said "they (the loans) will be forgiven in the future - by the government."
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying and I agree to a point but if the system allows the extensions then it's not really the kid's fault.

"Don't hate the player, hate the game." - Christopher Poole
 
StarSong said:
That's a truly harsh assessment of a largely responsible, bright, hard-working generation that is trying desperately to right a world that previous generations have all but permanently destroyed.

There are examples of bad behavior in any group, but just as Boomers detested the unfair generalizing of our generation, please resist the temptation to paint young people with a single brush.

I, for one, have great hope that Millennials and beyond will start to undo the terrible damage earlier generations have done to our environment and government.
Click to expand...


You mean the earlier generation that saved us from possible dominance by a totalitarian tyrant ? That generation ?

Just curious, ...... which would have been your language of choice,...Japanese or German ? ..........Oh wait, that's right, you would have had no choices ......... on anything.
 
rgp said:
You mean the earlier generation that saved us from possible dominance by a totalitarian tyrant ? That generation ?

Just curious, ...... which would have been your language of choice,...Japanese or German ? ..........Oh wait, that's right, you would have had no choices ......... on anything.
Click to expand...

No. I mean the Baby Boomer generation. And the "Greatest Generation" had plenty of its own flaws, too.
 
treeguy64 said:
I just listened to a news piece on the following program, so some of the details may not be exactly correct, depending on how thoroughly the news team did their research.

In the piece, details were given about a loan forgiveness program the US Government has for students who take jobs in the public sector, like teaching and nursing. According to the piece, 99% of people who apply are rejected! Unbelievable.

Where this piece hit home, for me: A young lady who is trying to get into the program, after getting her doctorate in Biology, and going into teaching, bemoaned how nobody who works for the program knows what they're taking about, each time she calls to check on her app, which has been repeatedly rejected. She said that without the loan forgiveness program, she will be in debt until she's sixty-two!

I can relate to her experience of dealing with ignorant government program workers: When I applied to increase my social security benefits, I dealt with seven agents. I was given information that was 100% wrong, by six of them! Different agents told me opposite things. My projected, monthly increase varied from four hundred to eight hundred dollars, with some agents telling me that I'd get a back payment check of up to eight thousand dollars! When I became an expert on my own case, and calculated I'd get about an extra one hundred dollars a month, with no back payment check, I kept demanding an agent who specialized in cases like mine, and finally got one. Her figures were within ten dollars of mine, and that's what I now am expecting, starting this month. It took five months to straighten out my case.

I empathize with those who are trying to get into the program, as above. I can only imagine their frustration as they get different information from different agents. Been there, done that!

The whole government bureaucracy trip is getting much worse, as our population swells. Totally unqualified, ignorant workers are hired to simply fill spaces. Training is terrible or non-existent. The US Mail system started heading into the toilet in the 70's, when mandatory hiring policies put folks in post offices who could barely read or speak proper English. To this day, I get mail for the house next door to me, and a house down the street gets my mail, such is the ignorance of mail carriers, these days.

Have you had tear your hair out dealings with your government's programs? Did you get things resolved to your satisfaction? How did you do so? How long did it take?
Click to expand...
u b rite hundred percent.
 
I grew up old-fashioned. Debts incurred are debts to be paid. Don't borrow unless you have a reasonable expectation of the ability to pay back. IOW, don't gamble on someone else's money.
 

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