Another school shooting

[RadishRose]

I don't agree with "coddling" either! Far from it. I just want to know WHY these people kill in masses. Whatever the reason or reasons for it, we must find out so we may be able to prevent at least some of it in the future.

We know what the means are.
Hopefully we can discover the cause (s).

 

[oldman]

I kind of like the idea of allowing certain school teachers the right to carry. After all, some pilots now carry guns into the cockpit. I flew the coast to coast route, so we were loaded with fuel and an obvious takeover target by radicals. I was offered the opportunity to have a gun in the cockpit, but turned it down for a few different reasons.

With the right training and education, I could see some positive results, if a teacher were allowed to carry. It may even act as a deterrent for others (e.g. students) to carry.

 

[Traveler]

Until people begin to understand that there is something seriously wrong with our crumbling culture, it will continue. Sad but true.

I think you are on to something, unfortunately the way the wind is blowing it is likely to continue getting worse. Victimology or whatever it is called that we have heaped on us by much of the media causes most everybody to get upset, frustrated, and feeling like they are being done wrong.

Do you have any suggestions re what might work in America?

Personally, I think violent TV shows, movies and video games warp young minds.

How many virtual humans has the average teenager virtually shot and killed ??

Boys used to be taught by their fathers how and when to responsibly handle weapons.

Now the fathers are also watching violent shows and playing violent video games.

Cartoons are not realistic.

In violent TV shows and movies the audience is passive, but violent thoughts are planted.

In violent video games, the audience participates in the violence. How many virtual humans has the average teenager virtually killed ??

But the seed of violence is planted in a sick society where violence is "entertainment."
Fortunately, for most of us that seed doesn't germinate. .

These mass shootings did not happen when we were going to school. Ask yourselves what has changed since then ? (post #'s 42 and 47)

 

[RadishRose]

I kind of like the idea of allowing certain school teachers the right to carry. After all, some pilots now carry guns into the cockpit. I flew the coast to coast route, so we were loaded with fuel and an obvious takeover target by radicals. I was offered the opportunity to have a gun in the cockpit, but turned it down for a few different reasons.

With the right training and education, I could see some positive results, if a teacher were allowed to carry. It may even act as a deterrent for others (e.g. students) to carry.

I don't know much about tasers, but would they be effective? I'm thinking there may be many, many teachers who couldn't shoot a person and may leave the profession if forced to have that as one of theirs duties.

Yet I do realize that certain teachers wouldn't hesitate to protect.

 

[911]

These mass shootings did not happen when we were going to school. Ask yourselves what has changed since then ? (post #'s 42 and 47)

Back then, Mom was home before and after school. In most cases today, probably not. Having Mom at home makes a difference. My Mom was like the quarterback on a football team. She was the captain and in charge of most everything that went on in the home.

 

[911]

I don't know much about tasers, but would they be effective? I'm thinking there may be many, many teachers who couldn't shoot a person and may leave the profession if forced to have that as one of theirs duties.

Yet I do realize that certain teachers wouldn't hesitate to protect.

Have you ever been Tasered? I have and I have seen one person die from being Tasered. The teacher, once trained, wouldn't have to shoot to kill, but when you put a weapon in a person's hand, the objective is to destroy the target. I guess we could say that it's a Catch 22.

 

[Traveler]

When looking for the "cause" of mass shootings in our schools, the 1st step is to realize there is not A single cause but rather a group of causes.

Look at it this way. Charcoal is harmless, So is Sulfur. So is Potassium Nitrate. What happens when you combine them in exactly the right proportions ? You get GUNPOWDER. It is the same with disturbed people. No one single cause, but a multitude of causes.

Anyone who wishes to kill, is going to find a way. No guns ? No problem. Just make a bomb. All of the information on bomb making is on the www.

I ask again, what has changed since you and I went the school ? Did we have violent video games or any video games for that matter ? No.

When we came home from school our mothers were waiting for us. That is not necessarily true today.

When we went to school, drugs were unheard of, at least during the 1950's and early 1960's. Not true today ! Any 7th grader can easily get his/her hands on any drug they want.

When we went to school our parents laid down strict rules for what we could and could not watch.

When we went to school there was no such thing as a computer or the www where any child can now easily watch the most violent, hate filled, material imaginable.

When we went to school we required to do chores around the house: mowing the lawn, raking the leaves, washing dishes, helping mom wash the windows, etc etc (Jeez, did I ever hate that one. But I obeyed). Todays kids often never lift a finger around the house. They are catered to.

When I was a kid I had a paper route and I shoveled snow in the winter and mowed lawns in the summer to earn my money. Todays kids often are given money as a matter of routine.

When we were kids we were well trained in the basics of civilized behavior. Is that true today ? Not in my opinion.

When my mom found a few bits of tobacco in my shirt pocket, I was in BIG trouble. Not today.

As an adult I watched a single parent mother coddle her son. He was given anything he wanted, anytime he wanted it. When she found out he was selling marijuana, she did nothing. When the police came to her house and told her that her son was caught shop-lifting, she did nothing. This went on for years and years. Sadly he became a full-blown heroin addict and he regularly stole everything he could from his mother. Did she learn and take action ? Nope. Instead she bought him a house down the block. When he was fired from every little job he ever had because of theft, the mother still did NOTHING.

 

[KingsX]

These mass shootings did not happen when we were going to school. Ask yourselves what has changed since then ? (post #'s 42 and 47)

Plenty... much of which is [unfortunately] not PC enough to post on a public forum.

One major problem is the so-called "justice" system. Criminals are coddled and given reduced sentence plea deals.
Convicted murderers, kidnappers and rapists have been freed to walk the streets again. I remember a famous case
here in Texas where a pedophile kidnapped a young boy and kept him as a sex slave for many years. Yes, the criminal
was finally caught and convicted. But he served fewer years in prison than the little boy had suffered as his sex slave.
If I were queen, convicted kidnappers, rapists and murderers would be executed.

 

[Traveler]

Plenty... much of which is [unfortunately] not PC enough to post on a public forum.

One major problem is the so-called "justice" system. Criminals are coddled and given reduced sentence plea deals.
Convicted murderers, kidnappers and rapists have been freed to walk the streets again. I remember a famous case
here in Texas where a pedophile kidnapped a young boy and kept him as a sex slave for many years. Yes, the criminal
was finally caught and convicted. But he served fewer years in prison than the little boy had suffered as his sex slave.
If I were queen, kidnappers and murderers would be executed.

BINGO ! I too could post about P.C. this and P.C. that, but I don't want to start a fire-storm of anger.

 

[Traveler]

Back then, Mom was home before and after school. In most cases today, probably not. Having Mom at home makes a difference. My Mom was like the quarterback on a football team. She was the captain and in charge of most everything that went on in the home.

YES, EXACTLY ! That is a HUGE and important difference.

 

[KingsX]

these children that have autism are put on medication that can hurt them --just like doctors putting people on chantix so they will quit smoking have suicidal thoughts -- have heard a lot of people say they had to get off of it--they put children on ritalin and other meds and sometimes it worse than the disease

Ritalin is used for ADD and ADHD.

To my knowledge, there is no drug for autism.
But no doubt the phrama industry will invent one
that has worse side effects than the disability.

 

[KingsX]

When looking for the "cause" of mass shootings in our schools, the 1st step is to realize there is not A single cause but rather a group of causes.

Look at it this way. Charcoal is harmless, So is Sulfur. So is Potassium Nitrate. What happens when you combine them in exactly the right proportions ? You get GUNPOWDER. It is the same with disturbed people. No one single cause, but a multitude of causes.

Anyone who wishes to kill, is going to find a way. No guns ? No problem. Just make a bomb. All of the information on bomb making is on the www.

I ask again, what has changed since you and I went the school ? Did we have violent video games or any video games for that matter ? No.

When we came home from school our mothers were waiting for us. That is not necessarily true today.

When we went to school, drugs were unheard of, at least during the 1950's and early 1960's. Not true today ! Any 7th grader can easily get his/her hands on any drug they want.

When we went to school our parents laid down strict rules for what we could and could not watch.

When we went to school there was no such thing as a computer or the www where any child can now easily watch the most violent, hate filled, material imaginable.

When we went to school we required to do chores around the house: mowing the lawn, raking the leaves, washing dishes, helping mom wash the windows, etc etc (Jeez, did I ever hate that one. But I obeyed). Todays kids often never lift a finger around the house. They are catered to.

When I was a kid I had a paper route and I shoveled snow in the winter and mowed lawns in the summer to earn my money. Todays kids often are given money as a matter of routine.

When we were kids we were well trained in the basics of civilized behavior. Is that true today ? Not in my opinion.

When my mom found a few bits of tobacco in my shirt pocket, I was in BIG trouble. Not today.

As an adult I watched a single parent mother coddle her son. He was given anything he wanted, anytime he wanted it. When she found out he was selling marijuana, she did nothing. When the police came to her house and told her that her son was caught shop-lifting, she did nothing. This went on for years and years. Sadly he became a full-blown heroin addict and he regularly stole everything he could from his mother. Did she learn and take action ? Nope. Instead she bought him a house down the block. When he was fired from every little job he ever had because of theft, the mother still did NOTHING.

Great commentary !

The irony is... drug addict children have been known to murder for drug money.
In one case I heard about, a spoiled drug addict murdered her own doting mother.

 

[Smiling Jane]

Plenty... much of which is [unfortunately] not PC enough to post on a public forum.

One major problem is the so-called "justice" system. Criminals are coddled and given reduced sentence plea deals.
Convicted murderers, kidnappers and rapists have been freed to walk the streets again. I remember a famous case
here in Texas where a pedophile kidnapped a young boy and kept him as a sex slave for many years. Yes, the criminal
was finally caught and convicted. But he served fewer years in prison than the little boy had suffered as his sex slave.
If I were queen, convicted kidnappers, rapists and murderers would be executed.

I would prefer to see more emphasis placed on prevention than punishment. I'm not saying punishment isn't necessary, but given the history of these school shootings, this one never should have happened.

It would take an insane level of greed to sell an M-15 to that Cruz boy, especially after Newtown.

 

[Smiling Jane]

Back then, Mom was home before and after school. In most cases today, probably not. Having Mom at home makes a difference. My Mom was like the quarterback on a football team. She was the captain and in charge of most everything that went on in the home.

This latest shooter was 19, well past the age where Mom should be monitoring him when he goes out the door.

 

[Shalimar]

For the sake of balance, I would like to state many children of the fifties and sixties were severely abused. June Cleaver didn’t live at their house. Few resources available, kept hushed up.

 

[Traveler]

This latest shooter was 19, well past the age where Mom should be monitoring him when he goes out the door.

Yes, that is true. However, the training, supervision, discipline, or lack thereof, he had while still at home, very likely "set the stage". What happens within the home, is a HUGE determining factor for what kind of people we become.

 

[Traveler]

For the sake of balance, I would like to state many children of the fifties and sixties were severely abused. June Cleaver didn’t live at their house. Few resources available, kept hushed up.

Children of the 21st century are still being abused. What was the name of those two parents who kept their 12 children locked up and tied up ? Remember just a few weeks ago ? I just looked it up. Their family name is Turrpin of Perris, California.

 

[RadishRose]

This is a long aticle and I haven't absorbed it all yet. But there is a LOT of info here if interested in guns in the US-

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

 

[KingsX]

I would prefer to see more emphasis placed on prevention than punishment.

That sounds nice... unless specific "prevention" punishes law-abiding citizens.

 

[Shalimar]

Children of the 21st century are still being abused. What was the name of those two parents who kept their children locked up and tied up ? Remember just a few weeks ago ?

I am well aware of the current stats around abused kids. I have them as clients. I testify in court, trying not to show any emotion around the graphic pics of abused, sometimes murdered children. My point in my previous post was, the past had horrendous stories also, I believe you posted something recently about your own abusive childhood. Throughout my career, I have counseled many adults in their later years, finally able to confront the abuse they suffered as kids. Such courage.

 

[Traveler]

I would prefer to see more emphasis placed on prevention than punishment.

Fine. Wonderful. But when prevention FAILS, as it keeps failing, lock the baswards up, for a VERY VERY long time.

 

[Traveler]

I am well aware of the current stats around abused kids. I have them as clients. I testify in court, trying not to show any emotion around the graphic pics of abused, sometimes murdered children. My point in my previous post was, the past had horrendous stories also, I believe you posted something recently about your own abusive childhood. Throughout my career, I have counseled many adults in their later years, finally able to confront the abuse they suffered as kids. Such courage.

Yes, that is true, but my point is that abuse of children, back in the 1950's and 1960's did not result in mass school shootings during those times.
And, Shalimar, there can be no doubt that you know the stats and the trauma that child abuse causes. I put that in there for others who are less aware.

 

[KingsX]

.

Speaking of prevention... seems the FBI dropped the ball.


Florida Gov. Rick Scott calls for FBI Director Christopher Wray to resign in wake of Parkland school shooting

" Florida Gov. Rick Scott called for FBI Director Christopher Wray to resign Friday in the wake of revelations the bureau ignored a Jan. 5 tip about Parkland school shooter Nikolas Cruz, who killed 17 when he opened fire on Valentine's Day.

The agency said earlier Thursday in a statement that it received a call in January from a person close to Cruz through its Public Access Line tipline to express concerns about Cruz's erratic behavior and disturbing social media posts.

That tip said that Cruz had a gun, wanted to “kill people” and there was the “potential of him conducting a school shooting.”

more at link

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-resign-in-wake-parkland-school-shooting.html

 

[RadishRose]

Also, a bail bondsman got a comment on his Yahoo page from Nikolas Cruz that "he wanted to be a professional school-shooter'". The Bondsman reported the post to Yahoo, assuming they turn these things over to the authorities. The day after the shootings, an FBI agent called the bondsman and came to his home for questioning.

 

[Warrigal]

Fascinating thread.
So many words written trying to find something to blame for mass murder except the ready availability of the AR - 15.

Do you all suppose that the social problems that are being pointed at do not exist in other countries around the world?
Do you think that only in America are children indulged, drugs are available, mental illness is common and violent movies are watched?

An attempt to point to a different country, Japan, was dismissed immediately without any consideration of they are doing that might be applied to US. Another post deplores finger waving by people outside US. That's me, I assume. One look at global statistics should be enough to show that US is a world leader in homicides by firearm and also in firearms ownership. The correlation is blindingly obvious.

Well, fine. If you are willing to trade off the lives of children to keep your Wild West dream alive then be prepared for more tragedies involving slaughtered innocents. I will try to hold my tongue but when it happens again ...