Another White Cop Shooting/Killing Black Teen. Self-Defense?

ClassicRockr

ClassicRockr

Well-known Member
Happened in St Louis on Wednesday.
St. Louis Police Chief Sam Dotson said the officer spotted Vonderrit D. Myers and two other males around 7:30 p.m. Wednesday while working a security job and patrolling a neighborhood near the Missouri Botanical Gardens. Dotson said the officer, who was off-duty but wearing his uniform, became suspicious when one of them started to run.
He chased them, first in his car and then on foot, Dotson said.
During the chase, he got into a physical altercation with Myers, who ran up a hill, turned and fired at the officer, the chief said. The officer, who wasn't hurt, shot back.

Ballistic evidence shows Myers fired three shots before his gun jammed, Dotson said. Police said they recovered the 9 mm gun, which was reported stolen on Sept. 26.

State and city leaders have urged the Justice Department to investigate the death of Myers in the Shaw neighborhood Wednesday night, fearing he was targeted because he was black. Police say the white officer who killed Myers was returning fire, but Myers' parents say he was unarmed.

Syreeta Myers said her son was holding a sandwich, not a gun. "Police lie. They lied about Michael Brown, too," she told The Associated Press by phone Thursday.

An attorney for the officer told the newspaper that his client served with the U.S. Marines in Iraq and was "shaken up" by the incident. He called claims that Myers was carrying a sandwich not a gun "ridiculous."

Online court documents show Myers was free on bond when he was killed. He had been charged with unlawful use of a weapon, a felony, and misdemeanor resisting arrest in June.

Some protesters burned the American flag, while others banged on drums and shouted "This is what democracy looks like!" Some slammed the sides of police vans. Broken glass littered the street.

Organizers say thousands of activists and protesters from around the country are expected to come to the St. Louis area for four days of rallies, marches and civil disobedience to protest the Ferguson shooting, racial profiling and police violence. The events, which start Friday and include a march Saturday in downtown St. Louis, have taken on added urgency in the wake of Myers' death.

What do you think?
 

First find out what happened and was the shooting justified or not. A life in danger and sandwich or gun? The physical comes first then the psychological ie motivations, possible discrimination, profiling etc.
 
Yes, I agree, an investigation has to come first. I also believe that someone in the black community should step up and take control of those that want to immediately resort to violence and disruption. If they are planning this demonstration and are for real, which I have no doubt that they are, then perhaps the President should call in the National Guard to maintain order and control. I know no one likes a police state, but in this case it may help to prevent further violence, looting and so forth. St. Lois has been a violent city for a long time, especially East St. Louis. I had a fellow as my First Officer for a while who was black and he was from East St. Louis and he didn't even want to live there.
 

I think that an investigation needs to be made also, before any judgment is made. I still don't get what the original crime this man did that caused the chase in the first place by that off-duty officer acting as a security guard. Cops have started wearing cameras in some areas, that maybe would help everyone to see what actually happened there.

One of the links in this article states that the area he was hired for as a security guard, was not even the area where this happened. The only thing I see that started this whole thing, was Myers running. Is that a crime now that mandates chase and anything that may follow, regardless of fatality?

I haven't been following this story at all, so correct me if I'm wrong. But it didn't seem like Myers commited any crime on that day to initiate a chase from a cop, am I mistaken? http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_2d5a8c2a-97db-5cec-a477-1130d7d26f7e.html
 
It is all very confusing. The report is full of details about the young man's previous offences but short on firm details about the events leading up to his death.

The first questions that pop into my mind are was the gun he is said to have fired really connected to him (or was it a 'throw down') and are there any witnesses to confirm that he did fire at the officer ? Did the officer identify himself as a police officer? How many times did the police officer fire his gun?

As said previously by others, a thorough investigation of the events leading up to this death is a must.
 
I've been looking at some Bureau of Justice stats myself http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/ard0309stpr.cfm

For the period (2003-2009) I calculate that police killed just over 9.3 people per week during the process of arresting them. That represents 60% of deaths during arrest. Other deaths were the result of intoxication, suicide, accident and natural causes. 6% were unexplained.

I think 488 people killed by police every year is a lot of people.
Clearly there is something wrong that needs to be addressed.
Is it a race problem, a crime problem or a police problem, or is it all three interacting?
 
Sounds to me that officers are trained to "give chase" if a person/persons sees them and start running away. I think it's a "guilt" thing for the person who runs. They could have an current warrant out for them or had just done something illegal. For those that stay where they are and talk to the officer, there's not a problem unless the person/persons start "mouthing off" to the officer and showing the officer no respect. If that happens, an officer won't say "well, have a nice day, bye". If a person/persons runs, and the officer says "halt", and the person keeps running, you can be pretty darn sure the officer will either go after the person w/their patrol car and/or on foot. If this kid did have a stolen gun, he sure didn't want this off-duty officer to catch him with it! Actually, the kid could have thrown the gun somewhere, stopped running and simply complied with the officers demands. Officer says, "raise your hands and don't move".......do it. If the officer says, "lay on the ground with your arms straight out away from your body".........do it. Whatever an officer wants you to do, just DO IT!!

This off-duty officer was curious about these guys for ? reasons and wanted to talk to them. Would have this kid run if the officer had been black..........perhaps.
 
When did running start to be a crime in the US? Why does an off-duty cop who's supposedly hired to do security for one small area, have the right to 'give chase' after someone who hasn't even committed a crime? Maybe there'd be more trust in both the black and white communities, if the police hadn't used excessive force and abused their power in so many past instances over the years. The sad thing is, these incidents result in a senseless loss of life.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
I've been looking at some Bureau of Justice stats myself http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/ard0309stpr.cfm

For the period (2003-2009) I calculate that police killed just over 9.3 people per week during the process of arresting them. That represents 60% of deaths during arrest. Other deaths were the result of intoxication, suicide, accident and natural causes. 6% were unexplained.

I think 488 people killed by police every year is a lot of people.
Clearly there is something wrong that needs to be addressed.
Is it a race problem, a crime problem or a police problem, or is it all three interacting?
Click to expand...

That's an average of less than 10 per state per year - not bad for a country which I believe you yourself have indicated is a savage land.

The problem that needs to be addressed is that we have a lot of criminals. Anything else is political whitewash.
 
I don't really believe that you live in a savage land but I do believe that the gap between the haves and the havenots has become a chasm. I see the gap widening over here too but our financial safety nets are better. We are still more egalitarian the a lot of other countries but this value is being weakened by neoconservative governments.
 
Running is not a crime, but taking off and running when a Patrol car is in view, whether it be Security or Police, is asking for trouble! To the officer, that means something is wrong! The officer doesn't know if a crime has been committed yet or not, that's why the "chase" is done.......to find out why the person/persons ran. I don't call it a "senseless death" if the officer's life is being threatened. I mean, this man or woman, wants to go home to their family after their duty shift is done.......not to the ER, OR or possibly morgue. IMO.

I know there are bad cops (hate using that word "cops", they are "Officers" to me.....more respectful of a name, to me) and they need to be weeded out of all Law Enforcement Depts. and FAST!!

Back in the late 70's, I was an EMT and our coverage area was L.A., South Central, Compton and Watts. My partner, Judd, was a 6'6" black dude who lived in Compton. I couldn't have asked for a better partner! This dude was totally cool. I remember him telling me, the first time I met in at the ambulance office, "Listen, I don't take crap from black or white, you have a problem, you call for me!" An older white guy, who had been drinking, wanted to light a cigarette, sitting on the gurney, by the oxygen tank. He wouldn't listen to me telling him he couldn't do that, so I called Judd over. After Judd told the guy he had a choice, the ambulance or the back seat of a patrol car, he put the cigarette and lighter away.
Bottom line, when people don't listen/obey, things happen. Back then, I met lots of L.A.P.D., Compton and Watts, black and white officers who were extremely nice.......unless they were put into a situation where they couldn't be nice.

Ok, I think I've had my say about this Thread now.


SeaBreeze said:
When did running start to be a crime in the US? Why does an off-duty cop who's supposedly hired to do security for one small area, have the right to 'give chase' after someone who hasn't even committed a crime? Maybe there'd be more trust in both the black and white communities, if the police hadn't used eFAxcessive force and abused their power in so many past instances over the years. The sad thing is, these incidents result in a senseless loss of life.
Click to expand...
 
oldman said:
Yes, I agree, an investigation has to come first. I also believe that someone in the black community should step up and take control of those that want to immediately resort to violence and disruption. If they are planning this demonstration and are for real, which I have no doubt that they are, then perhaps the President should call in the National Guard to maintain order and control. I know no one likes a police state, but in this case it may help to prevent further violence, looting and so forth. St. Lois has been a violent city for a long time, especially East St. Louis. I had a fellow as my First Officer for a while who was black and he was from East St. Louis and he didn't even want to live there.
Click to expand...
Often a lot of the protesting and looting has nothing to do with the actual case.It needs investigation of course, but the teenager made a big mistake by firing at his pursuer.Another sad case of everyone carrying guns and using them.
 
Davey Jones said:
Thats because most blacks carry deadly weapons,it seems every time a cop stop a black for questioning they are always armed to the teeth. Why is that?
Click to expand...

But, please stop watching gangster movies and or tv shows, that fuel your existing prejudices. Not one single person of color I associate with or come in contact with on a day to day basis is carrying a weapon. How many black people do you personally know or ever have sat down with and had a conversation with in your lifetime where you can, intelligently, make such a idiotic statement.

You know there are impoverished neighborhoods that are non-black that are high crime and nearly whipped out by drugs. Every take a look at cities like Salt Lake City. What's funny, I live in a rather wealthy city, and also live on the side of town where you aren't likely to see more than two to black people any given moment, yet the most scary people you will encounter on the street and especially near the bus depot tend to be the meth heads drug abusers and alcoholics who aren't black. I'm not making this up. They have been asked at times to leave the area and now cameras have been installed to monitor the bus depot. It's still a nice enough area, with low crime, but there's that.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/21/6053811/white-on-white-murder

Dang judge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG1kbxZhWb8

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/entertainment2/58478090-223/ling-church-utah-addiction.html.csp

These people have loads of guns and know how to use them lease we forget these fractions still exist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PXEjhiuYOU

If I were to take things like this, my gosh, what would I think of people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b63-UKtJ_j8

http://www.hillbillysavants.org/201...ault-count-in-appalachia-make-me-take-action/

As with anything, I could sit and find hundreds of stories, but I'll stop here.

And please don't get me started on white collar crimes that cause more deaths than any street crimes could ever possibly cause over your or my lifetime.


I try to stay out of these types of threads, just never leads to good or enlightens those that need it. I expect flack. But here's the deal, I don't agree with the behaviors of the people in the city where these latest upheavals have taken place, I think if you are out committing crimes than whatever fate you meet, you brought it on yourself. One less criminal on the street, but at the same time, I don't condone the behaviors of some of these officers that think they have carte blanche to do as they please to anyone that crosses their pass and to treat people as less than human dueto color or class status. We've had a number of officers that dishonor the uniform in my area and sometimes they've been dealt with one or another through the justice system. There are also, some wonderful people that work in law enforcement, likely the majority, I've worked aside a few on various occasions and couldn't ask for better co-workers, most were great, some I've seen put on disciplinary suspension rightfully so. I've seen the best and the worst of them in action up close and personal. No I wasn't on the wrong side of the law, but, as a child I witness a shake up without knowing what I was witnessing, but I did have the pleasure of witnessing that same department being taking down via news reports some decades later.

Overall they have a difficult job to do and many are doing the job diligently, but what the communities don't need are voices of people with knee jerk reactions leading people into counter productive actions that won't benefit the community or people they encounter period. I don't like the criminal elements out there, I don't like what I see going on in the black communities where crime is high, I don't like it any more where I see it happening in other communities either. I'm not for bashing the police that are doing a fine job, I prefer to wait to hear as much of the evidence as will be forthcoming as possible before drawing an opinion. I feel there are people of all persuasions that I wouldn't want to associate with, their ethnicity isn't a factor in that decision nor is it in wanting to have friendships with people based on any such criteria. I just rather avoid stupid people and people inclined to commit bodily harm to others as well white, black or other.
 
AprilT said:
Not one single person of color I associate with or come in contact with on a day to day basis is carrying a weapon.
You know there are impoverished neighborhoods that are non-black that are high crime and nearly whipped out by drugs.

But here's the deal, I don't agree with the behaviors of the people in the city where these latest upheavals have taken place, I think if you are out committing crimes than whatever fate you meet, you brought it on yourself. One less criminal on the street, but at the same time, I don't condone the behaviors of some of these officers that think they have carte blanche to do as they please to anyone that crosses their pass and to treat people as less than human dueto color or class status.

We've had a number of officers that dishonor the uniform in my area and sometimes they've been dealt with one or another through the justice system.

Overall they have a difficult job to do and many are doing the job diligently, but what the communities don't need are voices of people with knee jerk reactions leading people into counter productive actions that won't benefit the community or people then encounter period.

I don't like the criminal elements out there, I don't like what I see going on in the black communities where crime is high, I don't like it any more where I see it happening in other communities either. I'm not for bashing the police that are doing a fine job, I prefer to wait to hear as much of the evidence as will be forthcoming as possible before drawing an opinion.
Click to expand...

Well said, I'm not a cop basher either, but I don't blindly trust them all to do the right thing all the time. Some are truly there to serve and protect, and some abuse their power and use the badge to hide behind while doing it. There are plenty of news stories that prove it, and some cops are punished, but not all of them.

There are poor neighborhoods where crime is more rampant, and there's always the criminal element out there, regardless of race. Lots of gang activity in many areas, where they shoot each other or innocent bystanders on a daily basis. It's so commonplace, that it's not emphasized on the local news, they'd rather focus on incidents that will trigger emotions, that's what sells.

I've known many black people who didn't carry guns illegally, and they were good citizens and good friends. You're right that you're more likely to get harmed by a hop-head who's wired on meth, or a junkie that is desperate for his next fix. People who never lived in big cities don't see what really goes on in the streets. Their opinions are formed by watching the local news, I think that's the problem in a lot of issues, not just shootings by police.

The police should definitely go after criminals, if they receive a notice on their radio that a woman was just beaten and robbed in an alley, and they see a guy running away from them in that area, then yes, of course, they would start the chase and do what was needed to be done to stop the criminal. If they go around just thinking that someone looks guilty, and no crime was committed, but they chase after them without good cause, then I think that's a big problem. And it's happening more often in America with cops, and cop wannabes.

What should be addressed is the poverty in some of our cities. We worry so much about the poor, hungry and homeless in other poor countries, and turn a blind eye to what's happening right under our noses.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top