Are there ANGELS?

[Capt Lightning]

I am sorry you believe this way. When a baby is born, that is a miracle, when the sun shines, that is a miracle, when you take your next breath that is a miracle.

No, No and No. When a baby is born, that is a part of natural reproduction. When the sun (one of billions in the known universe) shines, that is nuclear fusion and the next time you take a breath is respiration. These things have evolved over billions of years. They may appear 'miraculous', but they're not miracles.

 

[Lara]

Ruh Roh...let's not let this discussion evolve into evolution
We've all probably been there done that over and over.

 

[Lara]

[God]never showed up ....guess he is to busy holding up stars and taking care of the rest of his creation

"He never showed up" for you but that doesn't mean He never showed up.

These scripture verses express that when someone becomes a believer he/she sees clearly the things that unbelievers are blinded to. That's why we will always disagree on spiritual matters. And I know you disagree with this☺

John 3:3.....Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

2 Corinthians 3:16.....but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away

John 9:25.....I was blind and now I see

Ephesians 5:8.....For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light

`

 

[Homeschoolie]

I was a 100% sincerely all-in, lived it, felt it, loved it, believed it, walked the walk not just talk the talk, had unwavering faith and no doubt no matter what for several decades.

It isn't just me, the Trinity has dismally failed and hundreds of thousands are taking off the blinders, detoxing from the indoctrination and brainwashing because we have sincerely given God our all; our hearts, love, our trust, time, money, dedication and service, literally our lives...but have found it is just not true!

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results...

 

[Lc jones]

"He never showed up" for you but that doesn't mean He never showed up.

These scripture verses express that when someone becomes a believer he/she sees clearly the things that unbelievers are blinded to. That's why we will always disagree on spiritual matters. And I know you disagree with this☺

John 3:3.....Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

2 Corinthians 3:16.....but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away

John 9:25.....I was blind and now I see

Ephesians 5:8.....For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light

`

T

"He never showed up" for you but that doesn't mean He never showed up.

These scripture verses express that when someone becomes a believer he/she sees clearly the things that unbelievers are blinded to. That's why we will always disagree on spiritual matters. And I know you disagree with this☺

John 3:3.....Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

2 Corinthians 3:16.....but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away

John 9:25.....I was blind and now I see

Ephesians 5:8.....For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light

`

Exactly true!

 

[norman]

With 7.7 billion people on earth how does that work? Does everyone get a guardian angel?
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

Knight. first you must have a need for help, it is not a requirement that you believe they exist or are just hanging around until someone needs assistance. God accepts everyone and if you will read the book (Bible) with the thought of seeking a path to understanding and enlightenment. It was once explained to me that a spiritual soul dwells within our mind and body throughout our consciousness existence on Earth. Gods (Higher Power) presence is within each 7.7 billion as individuals. p.s. I also believe in aliens and like God there is no physical proof, but the Milky Way is estimated to contain over 100 billion stars. I dunno.

 

[Knight]

Norman

"Knight. first you must have a need for help, it is not a requirement that you believe they exist or are just hanging around until someone needs assistance."

Sounds good until you think about the thousands of homeless people if not millions world wide . Sure there is that saying God helps those that help themselves. Then we know there are millions that don't have the mental or physical capacity to help themselves. Why is that?

 

[norman]

Norman

"Knight. first you must have a need for help, it is not a requirement that you believe they exist or are just hanging around until someone needs assistance."

Sounds good until you think about the thousands of homeless people if not millions world wide . Sure there is that saying God helps those that help themselves. Then we know there are millions that don't have the mental or physical capacity to help themselves. Why is that?

I hear you, a few years ago I was witness to a wreck on the highway outside of Las Vegas when a guy lost control of his truck it turned over threw him out on the highway and a semi ran over him. I stopped and along with others said a prayer for him. (Where was his Guardian Angel? ) I have witnessed many persons at the time of their final demise and my thoughts are: Within that body and (brain) a spiritual soul that has been imprisoned and has now been released from a physical body, the same as you and I are imprisoned in our physical body and our soul will be released at the time of our demise. I have experienced being saved from death by a Guardian Angel and have experienced a spiritual visit from a deceased person.. I know this is heavy and I am not out to change any ones belief, be at peace with what makes you happy. Sometime it is what it is even tho educated thinking and reasoning will cause a headache.

 

[win231]

I usually avoid such discussions because (as an atheist), I feel like I'm taking candy from a baby.
I overheard a similar discussion several years ago. A non believer was in a group of mostly-religious people at a table next to me. The non believer commented, "When the Federal building in Oklahoma was bombed, why did God make sure the day-care center on the first floor had 25 children who died in the explosion?" The other people at the table stormed off in a huff.

My mom sometimes made me LOL. When someone she hated died, she'd say "God took care of them." But I'd make her really angry when I would mention someone she liked who died.

 

[Gary O']

I usually avoid such discussions because (as an atheist), I feel like I'm taking candy from a baby

Yeah, I no longer debate with baby Christians either

The simplistic thought process is excruciating

Heh, baby atheists are even worse

 

[fancicoffee13]

No, No and No. When a baby is born, that is a part of natural reproduction. When the sun (one of billions in the known universe) shines, that is nuclear fusion and the next time you take a breath is respiration. These things have evolved over billions of years. They may appear 'miraculous', but they're not miracles.

Just look at Lara's post. It is so true.

 

[Gary O']

When a baby is born, that is a part of natural reproduction. When the sun (one of billions in the known universe) shines, that is nuclear fusion and the next time you take a breath is respiration. These things have evolved over billions of years. They may appear 'miraculous', but they're not miracles.

Too funny

Billions, trillions, quadrillions

Gotta add the years to make it feasible, don't we

Here's a thought;

Take the pieces to a basic watch
Put 'em all in a bag
Shake it a while......a loooong while
How long would it take for a functioning watch to happen?

I'll wait here

 

[ronaldj]

the Bible says you might encounter angels unaware.......or as one five year old put it in a Christmas program...."angles in their underwear."

 

[Gary O']

Y'know, it's been mentioned several times here, that deaths of innocent babies, and other horrible things cannot possibly happen if there was a god of love, or even a god, any god

Thing is, this world has been screwed up
The results are horrible
He told us about it
...and made provision

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

Many a martyr knew this


Sure, some miracles, wonderful events happen
But, there's a purpose for those, beyond hope for this decrepit earth

 

[CarolfromTX]

I wonder if Win231 has ever had the "there is no God" discussion with a Muslim. I'd pay money to watch that! It's hard for me to believe that this world, in all it's amazing diversity, is just a accident.

 

[rgp]

I wonder if Win231 has ever had the "there is no God" discussion with a Muslim. I'd pay money to watch that! It's hard for me to believe that this world, in all it's amazing diversity, is just a accident.

Well, can't speak for Win231 but I have had that discussion with a muslim.....It ended when I told him to pack his crap, and go back to Jordan......Oddly enough about two months later he did. Running from an ex wife , the law & the tax man.......LOL

 

[Sunny]

"No, what I am saying is that why do people have to argue each other about their beliefs in the first place if no harm is being done by these beliefs?"

Olivia, it's the "no harm is being done" that probably triggers off a lot of the debating. When people are so sure that their beliefs are true that they are constantly stepping outside of their own boundaries to try to impose them on others, they definitely are doing harm. It may not be physical harm, or even an infringement on civil rights (though we all know religion has been both, and often continues to be), it also inflicts the harm of guilt, shame, making people feel inadequate because they don't accept someone else's "proof" (which is never really any proof at all), etc.

Reading this thread from the beginning, some members of this forum have an irritating (or amusing) smugness about being "right." While this probably doesn't really inflict any harm on those of us who are mentally healthy, it is at best an annoying throwback to outdated religious beliefs, often delivered in an oh-so-holy, condescending manner. It not only invites "debate," it demands it.

 

[Sunny]

“Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for the lost faith in ourselves.” Eric Hoffer, "The True Believer"

 

[Knight]

At post # 394 The pro/ con needle hasn't moved.

 

[win231]

"No, what I am saying is that why do people have to argue each other about their beliefs in the first place if no harm is being done by these beliefs?"

Olivia, it's the "no harm is being done" that probably triggers off a lot of the debating. When people are so sure that their beliefs are true that they are constantly stepping outside of their own boundaries to try to impose them on others, they definitely are doing harm. It may not be physical harm, or even an infringement on civil rights (though we all know religion has been both, and often continues to be), it also inflicts the harm of guilt, shame, making people feel inadequate because they don't accept someone else's "proof" (which is never really any proof at all), etc.

Reading this thread from the beginning, some members of this forum have an irritating (or amusing) smugness about being "right." While this probably doesn't really inflict any harm on those of us who are mentally healthy, it is at best an annoying throwback to outdated religious beliefs, often delivered in an oh-so-holy, condescending manner. It not only invites "debate," it demands it.

I agree that no one should argue about their religious beliefs. But, ya know, non believers are not the problem. The problem is when religious people tell others, "You're going to hell because....."

 

[Capt Lightning]

Take the pieces to a basic watch
Put 'em all in a bag
Shake it a while......a loooong while
How long would it take for a functioning watch to happen?

That is a totally illogical question.
A watch is just that - a watch. It is not a living organism that has the capacity to evolve.
You can wait as long as you want. The watch won't change, but living organisms probably will. They have done for billions of years.

 

[fuzzybuddy]

Believers believe. They don't need proof. As an Atheist, I could care less what you believe, as long as your beliefs don't impinge on my life. But I can't say most believers are content with that. I have found that believers are intent on spreading their own particular brand of belief. And because they "believe", they feel that gives them the right to proselytize, to insist that I conform to their particular morality, and to berate my beliefs. And quite frankly, what you believe, no matter how fervently you believe; does not make it so for me.

 

[Knight]

Belief that there are angels showing up to help in dire situations for some but somehow don't for others is a mystery to me. The most often used phrases for any event are free will or man's choice. IMO those don't apply. If either of those apply would someone explain how.

Another often used phrase is. It's God's plan. Why would a God want harm in any form to be foisted on some & not others. Attributing horrible happenings to Satan doesn't seem reasonable. Satan supposedly tempted Eve so why not try to sway humans to his side by providing good experiences?

I really don't understand how only good is attributed to supernatural beings.

 

[Catlady]

My mom sometimes made me LOL. When someone she hated died, she'd say "God took care of them." But I'd make her really angry when I would mention someone she liked who died.

They say that we should be glad when we die because we'll get to be with God ("we" as in religious people). Yet, your mother didn't seem to feel that way about her friends. She wanted them to stay alive and not "meet God".

 

[Gary O']

The watch won't change, but living organisms probably will. They have done for billions of years

...and their life came from....