Are there ANGELS?

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Nautilus said:
Believing, wishing and hoping will not make it so.
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Not for you it won't. Believing will make it so for me. You are you. I am I. We will be treated as individuals.
 

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For myself I have no interest in what happens after death. But it seems to be an obsession with some people who you would think wouldn't care either. I'm more concerned in what happens in the living years
 

Nautilus said:
Treated by whom? Is there a whom?
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I believe God has already written me in His Book of Life. I will meet Him and Jesus as we review my earthly life. Jesus will be my advocate in front of God (like a lawyer would in court so to speak). I believe this because it says this in the Bible...and I'm a Bible believer
 
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So then, Lara, why do you have this need to keep repeating your belief in all this nonsense, over and over, on this forum? Clearly, you haven't convinced anyone. If I believed in the kind of deity you believe in, and "knew" what that deity is doing, has done, how he/she/it feels about me, and felt secure that I had the ultimate truth of the universe in my brain, because somebody wrote it in a book thousands of years ago... well, I'd be quiet and content with that knowledge.

It's beginning to sound to me like you are trying very hard to convince yourself. ("Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain," the man in this case being the voice of rational truth?)

"I'm a Bible believer?" Really? Including chopping off hands of thieves, executing those who violate the rules of the Sabbath, not eating pork or shellfish, not mixing certain materials in your clothing, saying that honoring your father and mother (no matter what they do) is on the same level as telling people not to kill, the earth is a little over 5,000 years old no matter what science tells us, following one's sexual proclivities or thinking for oneself are punishable offenses.... that Bible?
 
Sunny said:
Clearly, you haven't convinced anyone.
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That's where you're confused. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm answering some good questions that Nautilus has intelligently and thoughtfully asked me personally. And I have respectfully answered them for him. It would be nice if you could also show respect for others who thoughtfully post.
 
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Lara said:
That's why it's called a near death experience....we come back to tell about what happened before actually dying. Once we're dead we don't come back to earth to talk about life after death. We won't want to come back!
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Why not? It would be great PR. If they would come visit us and tell us about that great heaven and how happy they are there, earthlings would have proof of a hereafter and would want to live a good life to be able to qualify for that heaven. Crime and violence on Earth would be almost non-existent. That would be a great way for God to get us to behave. But, I'm sure you will tell us that he would rather we find out the hard way.
 
PVC said:
Why not? It would be great PR. If they would come visit us and tell us about that great heaven and how happy they are there, earthlings would have proof of a hereafter and would want to live a good life to be able to qualify for that heaven. Crime and violence on Earth would be almost non-existent. That would be a great way for God to get us to behave. But, I'm sure you will tell us that he would rather we find out the hard way.
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Good question. "Faith comes from hearing and hearing by the Word of God". If God did away with faith and choice by proving everything visually to us then He would have a bunch of robots instead of a relationship with those who have faith in Him, love Him, trust Him, and obey Him because they have read and studied His Word. He wanted a relationship with those who believe by faith and choose to love Him. That's what it says in the Bible.
 
Lara said, "
That's where you're confused. I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm answering some good questions that Nautilus has intelligently and thoughtfully posted. And I have respectfully answered them for him. It would be nice if you could also show respect for others who thoughtfully post."
Sorry Lara, nobody is buying that. You're here to preach your version of your religious belief. I don't remember this forum getting a Biblical Expert on staff. As I have said, what you believe is what you believe, as long as it does doesn't impede on me. Yet, someone's religious belief does not entitle anyone to question another beliefs. Nor does it entitle anyone to belittle others in this forum.
Maybe if some practiced what Christ said, rather than merely read it.
 
Fuzzy says...Sorry Lara, nobody is buying that.
Assuming you're correct and all-knowing, that is their choice.
I applaud free choice. God created them to have free choice

Fuzzy says...You're here to preach your version of your religious belief.
I agree! Viva la Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion!

Fuzzy says...I don't remember this forum getting a Biblical Expert on staff. I agree! No one is a Biblical expert. It's still available to be read and studied by anyone who wants to until He calls us Home.

Fuzzy says...As I have said, what you believe is what you believe, as long as it does doesn't impede on me. I can't control what you read but you surely can. I know you're stronger than to feel forced to read my posts and feeling all impeded upon. Just as I don't have to read your posts or give a wit.

Fuzzy says...Yet, someone's religious belief does not entitle anyone to question another beliefs. Nor does it entitle anyone to belittle others in this forum. Are you talking about what you are doing right now to me? I certainly haven't belittled anyone. Maybe you have something going on that is causing you to take online forum posts personally. We're just a bunch of old seniors having fun debating and sharing. Let your guard down and enjoy yourself.

Fuzzy says...Maybe if some practiced what Christ said, rather than merely read it. Yes you and I and everyone on the planet should try our best to do just that at all times.

Peace, Love, Dove
 
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I submit these posts only as "think pieces." I have no intention to be critical, only skeptical. I have alway wondered why the Bible only addresses events in the Middle East. Several little things have been omitted...like North, South and Central America, the Far East, Australia, about 98% of Africa, etc....the residences of probably about 95% of the world population. Could it be that the MEN in the Middle East who wrote the Bible were only aware of the existance of their particular geographical area? God would have known better and "commissioned" Bibles to be written in all languages for reading in all points of the globe. Salvation was only offered to the residents of the Middle East? Billions have died without having been given the opportunity to know Jesus? That's God's plan? If any of this makes sense, it's beyond my comprehension.
 
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believing will get you into Jesus arms.
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Oh, brother. What a perfect line for any demagogue selling any line of crapola. Plus a pretty good country/western line.

Keesha, how would you equate the above statement of Lara's with your belief that we have free will? Can we really say that being dictated to, as to what our beliefs should be, fits in with free will? Isn't that a bit like a tyrannical parent saying, "Well, it's your choice. It's entirely up to you. Either you behave as I tell you to, and you think and believe as I tell you to, or you go sit in the corner for several hours, or lose your allowance for a month, or submit to any physical punishment I care to inflict on you." That is not free will in my book!

Lara is not demonstrating free will. She is acting like someone who is terrified of doubting anything in the Bible.
 
Sunny said:
That is not free will in my book!

Lara is not demonstrating free will. She is acting like someone who is terrified of doubting anything in the Bible.
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Well Sunny, debating religion really isn’t my thing since I’m not the least but religious BUT since being on this forum I have always seen Lara committed and loyal to her beliefs to the this point and I happen to admire her dedication.

I don’t have to agree with what she’s saying but she has JUST as much RIGHT to state HER beliefs as YOU do to oppose them. Its called ‘free will.’

Nobody forced her to post her thoughts. She did it with her ‘free will,’ just as you opposed her comments with YOUR ‘free will.’ Nobody forced you to post. It was YOUR choice or decision.

Also, nobody is forced to read these posts. You ALL do so at your own ‘free will.’
 
Trade, lately you are using media to speak for you! This would make a good game..........no talking unless you're quoting!
 
Lara: To me, Christian responses to my inquiries (concerning the Middle East, Noah's Ark, how the earth was propagated with Eve being the only woman, etc.) is like trying to fit square pegs into round holes. When it becomes obvious that the pegs aren't going to fit, they play the "you must have faith" card. Noah gathered two kangaroos, pandas and Galopagos tortoises? Two of every insect on the planet? Two of every dinosaur species...as is propounded by "The Ark Encounter?" It would seem to me that belief in the Bible needs to be an all or nothing proposition. If one aspect is questioned, isn't it all to be suspect? Wouldn't Biblical examination come under the heading of free will? I would hope so.
 
Nautilus said:
Lara: To me, Christian responses to my inquiries (concerning the Middle East, Noah's Ark, how the earth was propagated with Eve being the only woman, etc.) is like trying to fit square pegs into round holes. When it becomes obvious that the pegs aren't going to fit, they play the "you must have faith" card. Noah gathered two kangaroos, pandas and Galopagos tortoises? Two of every insect on the planet? Two of every dinosaur species...as is propounded by "The Ark Encounter?" It would seem to me that belief in the Bible needs to be an all or nothing proposition. If one aspect is questioned, isn't it all to be suspect? Wouldn't Biblical examination come under the heading of free will? I would hope so.
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That’s a GREAT post.
 
Nautilus said:
I submit these posts only as "think pieces." I have no intention to be critical, only skeptical. I have alway wondered why the Bible only addresses events in the Middle East. Several little things have been omitted...like North, South and Central America, the Far East, Australia, about 98% of Africa, etc....the residences of probably about 95% of the world population. Could it be that the MEN in the Middle East who wrote the Bible were only aware of the existance of their particular geographical area? God would have known better and "commissioned" Bibles to be written in all languages for reading in all points of the globe. Salvation was only offered to the residents of the Middle East? Billions have died without having been given the opportunity to know Jesus? That's God's plan? If any of this makes sense, it's beyond my comprehension.
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This should be a lengthy answer but there's no way I could post it all here...nor are lengthy posts popular. And I'd rather a biblical scholar go into that for you since prophesy is complicated. But the short answer is that the Middle East is where the Holy Lands are, due to the OT prophesies leading there. Jesus Christ's birth was foretold (the coming of the Messiah) and prophesy was fulfilled as Christ was a descendent from the Jews in an extensive genealogy.

Salvation wasn't "only offered to the residents of the Middle East". It's offered worldwide but the problem back then was reaching the world. The problem was communication in those days. It was prophesied in the Old Testament that in the future (which is now with the internet and tv) that communication around the world would be fast and far reaching. Now it is. There are still pockets of areas (like remote tribes) who have not heard the gospel....and as you say, billions more. The Bible says those people will not be held accountable for what they have never heard. Those who have heard (or read), will be held accountable. Children under the age of reason will also not be held accountable.
 
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Nautilus said:
Lara: To me, Christian responses to my inquiries (concerning the Middle East, Noah's Ark, how the earth was propagated with Eve being the only woman, etc.) is like trying to fit square pegs into round holes. When it becomes obvious that the pegs aren't going to fit, they play the "you must have faith" card. Noah gathered two kangaroos, pandas and Galopagos tortoises? Two of every insect on the planet? Two of every dinosaur species...as is propounded by "The Ark Encounter?" It would seem to me that belief in the Bible needs to be an all or nothing proposition. If one aspect is questioned, isn't it all to be suspect? Wouldn't Biblical examination come under the heading of free will? I would hope so.
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There is an answer about procreating with Eve being the only woman. I answered that recently in some thread somewhere which I'll try to find to save me having to do it again. But aside from that, what you have brought up is a biblical difficulty with many because on one hand it says in the Bible that we are to believe all of it or none of it. Yet we have to have the gift of discernment to suss out when some scriptures are just parables, figures of speech, metaphors etc.

So I always pray before I start reading that the Holy Spirit will show me the truth while I read. That helps a lot. Also the Bible is meant to speak to some personally one way and to others another way because we are to have a personal relationship with God and Jesus. But the fundamental truths never change...like John 3:16. The fundamentals will remain clear and the same to all because God is not the author of confusion....yet He does want there to be some reasons to need to study it and discuss it in fellowship with other believers and in prayer.
 

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