Are you a feminist?

gruntlabor said:
Nitpicky? If feminists expect to be taken seriously, I would at least expect accuracy in their definition of themselves. Man is known for his brute strength, his big brain, his thumbs. Woman is defined by her womb. We're both necessary part and parcel of the same species.
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I agree very much with the sentiment that both sexes are necessary for the continuance of the species. We wouldn't be here as we are without both. But why should "feminists" need to define themselves into respectability? Besides isn't it just your respect that is being held back and how can we be sure your criteria are worthy? I'll decide if I respect your criteria once I hear what they are.

I'm not invested in the "feminist" word but I"m very much in favor of women asserting themselves. (Perhaps that is what you're doing?) My wife has a blunt quality which I very much appreciate. Women in my own family tended toward girly talk and were always reluctant to say anything straight.
 
gruntlabor said:
We've come around to a complete circle so I give up. Feminists call for equality of the sexes, an impossibility, but I wish them happiness in their great endeavor, nose to the grindstone and all that.
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Do you have in mind that the sexes can only be equal if they are exactly the same (which of course they never will be)? We are different sexually in fairly obvious ways but that doesn't mean we are or should be different in every conceivable way. Our worth can be the same as can our intelligence. Neither sex must conform to a simplistic stereotype.
 
MarkD said:
... Our worth can be the same as can our intelligence. Neither sex must conform to a simplistic stereotype.
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Is our worth the same? I think it is, but not our abilities. I was born into a wonderful world built by men who were supported by women who were building their families, society. I respect that. I respect my ancestors of both genders. But when the Feminist demands to be considered equal in abilities to the man, well I think she has some proving to do, as would a man trying to usurp woman's place in the world.
 
gruntlabor said:
Is our worth the same? I think it is, but not our abilities. I was born into a wonderful world built by men who were supported by women who were building their families, society. I respect that. I respect my ancestors of both genders. But when the Feminist demands to be considered equal in abilities to the man, well I think she has some proving to do, as would a man trying to usurp woman's place in the world.
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You have some of my wife's admirable bluntness. It sounds here like what you are defending is the respectability of complementary roles between the sexes. I have no problem with that but I don't think there is only one form that can take. Of course the form it has taken as it evolves in a culture at least escapes a feeling of arbitrariness which a modern lets-start-from-scratch outlook might suffer from.
 
Feminists will bully, exclude and pile on you if you don't agree with their position. I've already seen it on this thread.

My mother couldn't stand Feminists. They told her she was useless and wasted her life being a stay-at-home Mom to 5 kids. But Dad brought home the bacon, and Mom looked after the household. Each task was equally important.
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nobody on this thread has done any such thing - they have just disagreed wit h you. No need to play the victim.

and nobody on this thread has told anyone they were useless or wasted their life - of course that is wrong.

feminism is about equal choice and opportunity for all - if a couple wants to have one stay at home partner and one working partner and they can afford that - fine. Nobody objected to that.

Deciding that is the template for everyone or feminism is wrong because you didnt choose to work - that is what we are objecting to
 
We've come around to a complete circle so I give up. Feminists call for equality of the sexes, an impossibility, but I wish them happiness in their great endeavor, nose to the grindstone and all that.
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Not sure what you think is impossible.

Feminism has acheived a lot in gaining equal opportunity, pay, choices for all. Not perfect yet but a lot has been acheived - things people take for granted now

I am happy about that.
 
January said:
nobody on this thread has done any such thing - they have just disagreed wit h you. No need to play the victim.

and nobody on this thread has told anyone they were useless or wasted their life - of course that is wrong.

feminism is about equal choice and opportunity for all - if a couple wants to have one stay at home partner and one working partner and they can afford that - fine. Nobody objected to that.

Deciding that is the template for everyone or feminism is wrong because you didnt choose to work - that is what we are objecting to
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January said:
Not sure what you think is impossible.

Feminism has acheived a lot in gaining equal opportunity, pay, choices for all. Not perfect yet but a lot has been acheived - things people take for granted now

I am happy about that.
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Well stated.
 
Beezer said:
Feminists will bully, exclude and pile on you if you don't agree with their position. I've already seen it on this thread.

My mother couldn't stand Feminists. They told her she was useless and wasted her life being a stay-at-home Mom to 5 kids. But Dad brought home the bacon, and Mom looked after the household. Each task was equally important.

And Mom raised 5 University educated kids. So stick that where the Sun never shines.
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😳
 
Feminism is mostly about equal rights. Men and women do not have equality in physical strength even within their own gender. When I was growing up, I constantly was being told that I couldn't do something because only men could do it. I labeled it "nonsense" and set out to disprove it. Any human being who has a basic knowledge of physics can gain almost any skill - which I have proceeded to demonstrate most of my life - and get around the "brute strength" requirement. Women have been socialized for eons to believe in their physical inferiority. Some of us discover it's BS - some don't. For those happy with it - have at it; I don't like the restriction. I enjoy achieving different accomplishments.
 
I am not sure how to respond? Do I feel women are somehow "better" than our male counterparts? Not really. What I do not like is it being assumed I cannot do some thing because I am female.
Are there things that, maybe, I am physically unable to do? Yeah...but it is because of my personal abilities.

I think we are better off now than, say, our grandmothers times...they were limited on jobs they could do, and they could not even vote yet.
I am not really a frilly, girly girl. Last time I wore a dress was my wedding day...23 years ago. Before that...who knows.
I recently read a book set early 20th century...I remember a husband telling his wife that if women got the vote...she would vote same as him.

I want us to be treated fairly in schools and workplace...and in life. That is all
 
I well recall the snide comments often directed toward me by certain male colleagues. I was new in my practice, soft spoken, resembled a curly haired doll, dressed in very feminine clothes. Once, for fun, a male

friend and I practiced some fast form T’ai Chi on the back lawn. ( I dressed appropriately.) I will never forget the expressions on the faces of those erstwhile dismissive men, “unsuitable job for a woman” indeed. 😁
 
Marie5656 said:
I am not sure how to respond? Do I feel women are somehow "better" than our male counterparts? Not really. What I do not like is it being assumed I cannot do some thing because I am female.
Are there things that, maybe, I am physically unable to do? Yeah...but it is because of my personal abilities.

I think we are better off now than, say, our grandmothers times...they were limited on jobs they could do, and they could not even vote yet.
I am not really a frilly, girly girl. Last time I wore a dress was my wedding day...23 years ago. Before that...who knows.
I recently read a book set early 20th century...I remember a husband telling his wife that if women got the vote...she would vote same as him.

I want us to be treated fairly in schools and workplace...and in life. That is all
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Well said, Marie5656. That is basically what second wave feminism was all about - having the freedom to choose for ourselves how we should dress, to be educated and have fulfilling careers, to have money of our own to spend without being accountable to some male and being free to marry or not, according to our own aspirations. Access to reliable birth control enabled these aspirations to be achieved, thanks be to Dr Gregory Pincus.

Building on those achievements women and girls now have access to executive level occupations rather than being confined to the typing pool and other low paid work. The task for modern day feminists is to demand that women be free of misogyny in the workplace and that the gender pay gap be eliminated. Surely not too much to hope for?
 
Feminist demands to be considered equal in abilities to the man, well I think she has some proving to do, as would a man trying to usurp woman's place in the world.
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Nobody is trying to usurp anyone's place - that statement assumes there is a place that belongs to only one gender.

Places- meaning work opportunities, roles in life etc belong equally to either ( barring biological functions like breast feeding, of course)

What abilities do you think women do not have that men have?

We know that men, on average, are physically stronger - but how does that affect equal opportunity in today's world?
I think it does not.
Hardly any of the jobs that were considered not for women, or the opportunity to work and be paid fairly at all, were so because of physical strength differences
 
First of all, thank you to @Rose65 for posing the question.

As I read through the thread so far, it's not clear to me whether some have taken offense to the actual question, or whether they have taken offense to the content of the OP's original post #1.

But anyway, back to the question of, "Are you a feminist?"

No, I'm not, and I can't imagine myself ever becoming a feminist. I look forward to the day when the word 'feminist' stops being used. Is assigned only to the history books.

It seems to me that if you ask twenty people to define a feminist, regardless of the gender of those twenty people, you will get twenty different definitions. If this thread ends at 1,000 posts, we still won't be able to agree on what a feminist is, or what we want it to be.

Some people label themselves as feminists; some people label others as feminists. Some who have identified themselves as such later say they have become disillusioned with the word, saying they have become disillusioned with feminists and its cause. Others will continue to see their self-appointed label as a positive thing for themselves and on behalf of women. Some will see it as a positive thing for both women & men.

Then we have the people who use this label to identify others. That label being used in a positive way to describe others. Then that very same label being used by some others in an extremely negative and derogatory way to describe others. If a word can be used in such a polarised way, and based on most having a different definition of the word, does that mean the word has failed itself? Might it mean that the word has failed society? Or has society failed the word/label, 'feminist'.

Imagine a world where everyone stops using the word 'feminist.' What a great day that might be. When or if the world stops using this word, might it mean that we have truly moved on? Moved on in a way that the word becomes unnecessary because society has no use for it anymore. It becomes redundant. Redundancy doesn't imply ignoring the unique attributes and differences among genders or differences of the individuals within genders. A redundancy of the word might mean a mature understanding and appreciation of the diversity within each gender and what those differences can provide. How they might complement each other, for the betterment of everyone. Who wants all men to be like women; who wants all women to be like men? What a scary thought.

Imagine a point comes when we as a society 'start' to slowly outgrow the word. I fear that we will never lose this word, as society isn't yet mature enough to let it go. Society will always feel a need for the word, because it hasn't grown up yet, and perhaps never will, or so it seems to me. It seems there will always be a struggle to establish genuine equality, whatever that might be? Especially when it seems that the sense of what equality is is very personal to the individual, and forever seems to be changing?

Navigating the complexities of gender dynamics, grappling with historical imbalances, and striving to redefine societal norms. The word acts as a reminder of the ongoing conversation about gender equality that, 'perceived' or factual. Perhaps, we are not ready to conclude. It seems to me that gender equality is subjective. I'm not sure we are going to pin it down, as it means different things to different people, as does the word 'feminist'

Will we ever grow beyond these labels?
 
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Are you a feminist?​


Don't know
Don't much care about labels

As usual, this subject gets beat to death

Early on, in my tenure here, I posted some thoughts on the fairer gender

Here it is again;

Wimin

The most mysterious beings of our planet

I found out long ago, about sixty years or so, that gaining favor with the finer gender of our specie is not necessarily in my best interest.
Whole different frequency
Wired different
Fiber optic vs 9 gauge single conductor
Fascinating, mystical, attractive, you bet
Sensitivities I’d never remotely considered
But, hanging with a group of ladies?

Can’t

Mentally; exhausting

Socially; this ogre doesn’t stand a chance

Spiritually; beyond any reach I may have thought I had

Physically; like looking into the sun, can go blind if obsessing too long

Gaining favor?
Whimsical touches
Nothing of depth
Any more than that and I find myself precariously dangling off a mental precipice

I can do one, maybe two per sitting
and that is mostly because they sense my discomfort to the point of putting forth effort to discuss what I’m interested in
I’ve learned to pick up on this and placate for a bit, then find a way to excuse myself

I don’t avoid ladies, but have learned not to seek them out
It’s what shops are for

I’ve been fortunate

My lady has put up with me for half a century

When I become too much and I (for some unknown reason) anger her,
I found placing my calloused hand on the small of her back will still cause her to flinch
….and she begrudgingly forgives me

We have had this tryst, this romance that has yet to fade

She’s plenty for me

Forever


So, here I remain
Baffled, yet attracted at the mysteries, complexities
A sentry
A defender
A protector
A willing grunt

Keeping the fire

best I can

soldierr.jpg
 

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