Beavers are a nuisance

rkunsaw

Well-known Member
They are sure making a mess around here. they are even adding mud and sticks to the dam we built. Every day we have a pile to clean out from below the dam. They have also cut down trees to use in the dam and for food.

I shot two Thursday night and put out two traps Friday. Nothing in the traps yesterday. I'll check them this morning after it gets light. At least I scared them enough that they didn't come near the dam Friday night.

On the plus side I can sell their anal glands to ice cream companies, Cadbury's candy egg company, or other food companies who want to add 'natural' flavor to their product.:help:
 

i would say the beavers would be classified along with a few other animals as being vermin just like our rabbits, as long as they aren't an endangered species like the lions, elephants, and Rhino's which are being slaughtered for sport and their tusks & horns Grrr
 
Take a deep breath Polly, remember the angst and outrage from the PETA types about what savages we were for blowing the heads off cute little Joeys? They never showed the pictures of the hundreds of thousands of roos literally starving and dying of thirst in that big 9 year drought. They overbred due to more water being accessible in dams which then dried up in the drought, so I'd be waiting to hear about local conditions and numbers and nuisance levels before passing any judgements. Maybe, like roos, there are more beavers since settlement than the land would support before we 'upgraded' it?

You have no idea how pleased I am that seldom ever eat ice-cream.
 
Yeah it raised an eyebrow here too as I'd thought they were kinda rare and 'iconic' due mostly to the hushed and worshipful tones of documentary voice-overs.

But we're here to learn how things really are in other places and I think we're learning plenty and changing our preconceived views of things accordingly.
I'm sure potential tourists on the forum are greatly relieved to have the Drop Bear thing put into perspective, and I'm still getting over what pests racoons are. Here was I thinking they were just little 'cuties'.
 
Rkunsaw..loud and clear on the beavers.

What a nuisance! When we first moved here we had a colony of them across the creek. They had already killed several of the trees and were working on more. We waged an all out war on them, with firecrackers, backhoe, and shot one. They got uncomfortable enough to move on.

Three years later, back again. We noticed a small tree chewed down hanging over the creek bank. Brother was able to get off a couple of shots at one. Not sure if that discouraged them, but no signs of any more trees down yet. They are very difficult to discourage and are very smart and wary of traps. If you fail to trap them on the first attempt, you'll never get another chance.
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You shot beavers?
I'm speechless
:eek:mg:

How is that even legal?
Is there anything you are not allowed to shoot in America?

Warrigal...it is not legal to shoot beavers for sport. However, in my state if they are damaging property, such as chewing down large trees, damming up waterways or ruining crops you have the right to shoot them. As I mentioned in my above post they are very difficult to discourage and can ruin a stand of mature trees in a very short time. They not only use the tree for their dams and food, but they must keep chewing in order to keep their teeth from overgrowing their mouths.

I will refrain from addressing your obvious snipe at American gun laws.
 
No, that wasn't a snipe at the gun laws. I get hunting and trapping.
It's shooting people that disturbs me,

The shock was because in my mind it sounded like shooting platypus or wombats over here.
Both would elicit public outrage. Almost all of our native wildlife is totally protected.
I imagined that yours would be too.

I've been looking up CITES and I see that I am wrong.
 
I think that Pennsylvania has a beaver trapping season - 3 months at the beginning of the year - and it's legal to shoot them with a small-caliber firearm once they're trapped. Not sure what the limits are - I think it depends upon which part of the state you're in.

Evidently they're not an endangered species here, either.

Warri, there is a VERY strong hunting culture in this country - you'd be surprised what some people hunt.
 
Cute little racoons, or cute little squirrels, cute little possums can all carry rabies. I hate all of them. They are destructive and also do much harm to my landscape.
 
Cute little racoons, or cute little squirrels, cute little possums can all carry rabies. I hate all of them. They are destructive and also do much harm to my landscape.

Beg pardon, but ... YOUR landscape?

Those rabid little critters roamed the Earth long before you and I - don't you think they have as much, if not more, right to be here? Isn't life - ANY life - more sacred than a few fancy petunias and a well-trimmed lawn?

The way I see it, WE are encroaching upon THEIR territory, so it's only right that they fight back in whatever manner they can.
 
Do not upset the Beavers?

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STATE OF MICHIGAN
GRAND RAPIDS DISTRICT OFFICE STATE OFFICE BUILDING
6TH FLOOR
350 OTTAWA NW GRAND RAPIDS MI 49503-2341


December 17, 1997


Mr. Ryan DeVries
2088 Dagget Pierson, MI 49339



Dear Mr. DeVries:


DEQ File No. 97-59-0023-1 T11N, R10W, Sec. 20, Montcalm County


It has come to the attention of the Department of Environmental Quality that there has been recent unauthorized activity on the above referenced parcel of property.

You have been certified as the legal landowner and/or contractor who did the following unauthorized activity:

Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams across the outlet stream of Spring Pond.

A permit must be issued prior to the start of this type of activity. A review of the Department's files show that no permits have been issued.

Therefore, the Department has determined that this activity is in violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams,
of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws annotated.

The Department has been informed that one or both of the dams partially failed during a recent rain event, causing debris dams and flooding at downstream locations.

We find that dams of this nature are inherently hazardous and cannot be permitted. The Department therefore orders you to cease and desist all unauthorized activities at this location,
and to restore the stream to a free-flow condition by removing all wood and brush forming the dams from the strewn channel.

All restoration work shall be completed no later than January 31, 1998.

Please notify this office when the restoration has been completed so that a follow-up site inspection may be scheduled by our staff.

Failure to comply with this request, or any further unauthorized activity on the site, may result in this case being referred for elevated enforcement action.

We anticipate and would appreciate your full cooperation in this matter.

Please feel free to contact me at this office if you have any questions.




Sincerely,


David L. Price
District Representative Land and Water Management Division







Dear Mr. Price:


Re: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N, R10W, Sec 20; Montcalm County

Your certified letter dated 12/17/97 has been handed to me to respond to.

You sent out a great deal of carbon copies to a lot of people, but you neglected to include their addresses.

You will, therefore, have to send them a copy of my response.

First of all, Mr. Ryan DeVries is not the legal landowner and/or contractor at 2088 Dagget, Pierson, Michigan

I am the legal owner and a couple of beavers are in the (State unauthorized) process of constructing and maintaining two wood "debris" dams across the outlet stream of my Spring Pond.

While I did not pay for, nor authorize, their dam project, I think they would be highly offended you call their skillful use of natural building materials "debris."

I would like to challenge you to attempt to emulate their dam project any dam time and/or any dam place you choose.

I believe I can safely state there is no dam way you could ever match their dam skills, their dam resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence, their dam determination and/or their dam work ethic.

As to your dam request the beavers first must fill out a dam permit prior to the start of this type of dam activity, my first dam question to you is:
are you trying to discriminate against my Spring Pond Beavers or do you require all dam beavers throughout this State to conform to said dam request?

If you are not discriminating against these particular beavers, please send me completed copies of all those other applicable beaver dam permits.

Perhaps we will see if there really is a dam violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams,
of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws annotated.

My first concern is — aren't the dam beavers entitled to dam legal representation?

The Spring Pond Beavers are financially destitute and are unable to pay for said dam representation — so the State will have to provide them with a dam lawyer. The Department's dam concern

that either one or both of the dams failed during a recent rain event causing dam flooding is proof we should leave the dam Spring Pond Beavers alone rather than harassing them and calling them dam names.

If you want the dam stream "restored" to a dam free-flow condition — contact the dam beavers —
but if you are going to arrest them (they obviously did not pay any dam attention to your dam letter-being unable to read English) — be sure you read them their dam Miranda rights first.

As for me, I am not going to cause more dam flooding or dam debris jams by interfering with these dam builders.

If you want to hurt these dam beavers — be aware I am sending a copy of your dam letter and this response to PETA.

If your dam Department seriously finds all dams of this nature inherently hazardous and truly will not permit their existence in this dam State —
I seriously hope you are not selectively enforcing this dam policy, or once again both I and the Spring Pond Beavers will scream prejudice!

In my humble opinion, the Spring Pond Beavers have a right to build their dam unauthorized dams as long as the sky is blue, the grass is green, and water flows downstream.

They have more dam right than I to live and enjoy Spring Pond. So, as far as I and the beavers are concerned, this dam case can be referred for more dam elevated enforcement action now.

Why wait until 1/31/98? The Spring Pond Beavers may be under the dam ice then, and there will be no dam way for you or your dam staff to contact/harass them then.

In conclusion, I would like to bring to your attention a real environmental quality (health) problem: bears are actually defecating in our woods.

I definitely believe you should be persecuting the defecating bears and leave the dam beavers alone.

If you are going to investigate the beaver dam, watch your step! (The bears are not careful where they dump!)

Being unable to comply with your dam request, and being unable to contact you on your dam answering machine, I am sending this response to your dam office.




Sincerely,


Stephen L. Tvedten

 
Phil:
The way I see it, WE are encroaching upon THEIR territory, so it's only right that they fight back in whatever manner they can.

Given that logic, I assume if your apartment were over run with cockroaches, spiders and rats you would leave them alone, live with and view it as you encroaching upon THEIR territory. More power to you if that's your way.

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I live in the woods, and maybe you can relate my property to being the size of a postage stamp placed on two acres of land. In the middle of many hundreds of acres, I have ten acres and the animals have free roam of all of it without peril, except for the three acres that I actually maintain as my "territory". This is where my house, chicken coop, pasture, yard, gardens, outbuildings and pets are located.
Woodland animals are not welcome here.

Given all the great outdoors to roam and forage in, small varmints in particular are not invited to encroach on what I deem my "territory". Raccoons kill chickens, raid and tear up gardens, tear walls out, dig into anywhere they want to be including your roof or basement. Except for killing chickens, squirrels do the same. Armadillos, which we have a scourge of, dig 6" ankle breaker holes unmercifully all over the yard and pasture. A foraging dillo or two can dig up a yard or pasture and make it look like a land mine in one short night.

Beavers as we have already discussed can chew down many thousands of dollars in timber in short order and dam up waterways that support aquatic life, and wells and livestock are dependent on. All except possum can carry rabies. Possum and coons carry an assortment of devastating diseases in their feces and urine which kill livestock. Possum have a low body temp that does not support rabies well, but can carry leprosy. We are faced with an assortment of very venomous snakes that also kill livestock, raid chicken coops for hatchlings and eggs, kill dogs and cats as well as large livestock with venomous bites.

I am not about killing animals for sport or target practice. We harvest one or two deer for food once a year during hunting season. I have no trophy deer heads hanging in my home. The varmints that are caught wreaking havoc on my "territory" will be dispatched without remorse. It will be done as humanely as possibly, by shooting if necessary, but they have to go.

Some of you will recall my ongoing battle with racoons this spring. I live trapped and relocated 13 of them. Had I allowed them to take over, by now I would be walking on their backs to get across the yard. They would likely be waving out the windows and hanging from the rafters by now.

Those of us that are faced with raiding varmints that have to be dealt with are not animal haters, or repressed serial killers. It takes a different kind of person to live in woodlands and deal with the wildlife. We are happy to exist along side of nature. It's part of why we live where we do, and for the most part, co-existing is what we do. But, we cannot allow destructive creatures to take over our existence, safety and financial well being.

It's easy and maybe natural for people that have never lived in such a situation to Ewww!!, Ooohh!!, and be shocked. I doubt most of them have ever had livestock die from EPM, livestock or people with broken legs from holes dug, domestic animals preyed upon, homes suffer thousands of dollars of varmint damage, yards and gardens destroyed that a lot of backbreaking work and money was invested into, or a possibly rabid, emaciated coyote stroll down their driveway in broad daylight. I have, and believe me he was not relocated.

The human species has just as much right to exist in their environment as any other animal, and when push comes to shove in nature, the strong survive.

In this case, the weak and vulnerable are animals that encroach upon human territory, and have become dependent whether by laziness in foraging for harder food, sickness or injury, just as we would likely be the weak if we encroached upon a mountain lion or bear's territory.

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I stand by my assertion that they were here before us. We are direct descendants of the people who slaughtered the Native Americans, therefore we are no strangers to decimating whatever "wild life" is present in an area that we wish to take as our home.

That a wild animal decides to make a brunch of a domesticated animal is, as OG said, a matter of the strong surviving. By throwing in their lot with humans the domesticated animals have chosen their destiny - they have chosen to be brunch, in one manner or another. To believe that a wild animal is "evil" is to anthropomorphize a very simple fact of nature.

I've lived with roaches and rats and spiders, yes. But as you claim with your situation, they were invading my space. In fact, they were doing more than that. They weren't killing my livestock, they weren't eating my marigolds and they weren't making my landscaping look bad - they were falling on me from the light fixtures and the shower-head (roaches) and trying to bite me (rats). The spiders I left alone as they are useful allies in the battle against other critters.

So the rats and roaches were making it a personal battle - they were attacking ME. When someone - ANY one - attacks me I fight back. But I wasn't putting out treats for them, I wasn't a slob with food laying all around, I wasn't dirty. They came because my neighbors were slobs. Essentially, my neighbors had invited them. And even with that I would have been fine with just an occasional visit, but I didn't ask them to get into bed with me.

That's personal. I like to have a choice whom I shower and sleep with. They gave me no choice, just as your critters gave you none.

I'm talking about the reasons we kill wildlife. I understand hunting for food. I understand killing for the protection of yourself and your livestock. I understand calling in the exterminator for infestations.

What I do NOT understand is killing for the alleged attacks upon ornamental gardens and flowers, a form of killing I have seen all too often. Farmers have a reason to kill when their crops are threatened; my neighbor has no such excuse when their custom-rolled-and-fertilized Blue Grass lawn is visited by a few hungry birds. I have no problem shooting the coyote that you catch eating your chicken; I DO have a problem going out on heavily-armed coyote slaughters in the name of "protection".

As I am with humans, I am ready, willing and able to pull the trigger on any animal that transgresses, but first I have to be damned sure that they're guilty of more than just surviving as any other animal would. Animals do not (as far as I know) have an inherent knowledge of the concept of good and evil; that is something that WE force upon THEM, and in killing for no good reason we enforce our Way over that of Nature.

And don't ever believe that a city boy is ignorant of the facts of life - we have our own cycles of life and death that mirror those of the country folk. They merely take a slightly different form. So just as I don't shoot a coyote for howling at the moon, I don't shoot a gangsta for listening to rap and throwing gang signs.

But when the coyote raids my livestock - or the gangsta comes at me with his "nine" - then I have no compunctions about terminating them with extreme prejudice.


God, I love this board - thank you all for making me think! ;)
 
As I am with humans, I am ready, willing and able to pull the trigger on any animal that transgresses, but first I have to be damned sure that they're guilty of more than just surviving as any other animal would. Animals do not (as far as I know) have an inherent knowledge of the concept of good and evil; that is something that WE force upon THEM, and in killing for no good reason we enforce our Way over that of Nature.

Wot Phil said. It ain't personal.
... and wot OG said too.
"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's".... the bit of ground I paid for is my territory, the rest of OZ belongs to whoever and whatever lives in it. I have no compunction in killing vermin, especially feral 'foreign' vermin like rodents. We have no native rodents that I'm aware of just marsupial look alikes which are seldom seen, so rodents and insects are fair game.
A snake of any colour that's just passing through I'll avoid with respect but won't be calling a SWAT team in over it. However if it's fangy and takes up residence then measures will be taken.

I've fenced the roos out to cut down on the crap accumulation and the odd confrontation at the door, rather than accept the kind offer from someone to shoot them. Not necessary, and I kinda like looking at them, they're really cute from a distance and they give the dog something to bark at.

I'm not a Petunia and lawn kind of gal, I mow with weedkiller and live on largely barren ground so no problem with herbivores but even I couldn't pass a death sentence on something for eating a flower! I'm a live and let live type. The best way to solve the 'garden pest' problem is not have a garden. I'd rather watch live things scurrying about in native grasses and weeds than a few poxy petunias any day. I concluded long ago that gardens are for the neighbours to look at so I look at theirs and they can think what they like about the view of my house. I don't have to look at it all except when I drive in so it's their problem and if they want to improve their view then they're welcome to come over and work on it.

I remember being aghast when the edict came down that snakes, crocs etc were henceforth protected species. Wot??!!! But I've gotten used to the idea as have most. I even found myself worried that the Black snake on that windshield vid would get hurt. I wouldn't have minded a Brown one getting mangled though.
No one goes hunting snakes and crocs for fun now that I know of but we still kill a lot more of them than they of us. If we want to walk in the bush then we have no right to expect that the bush be rendered human friendly for that purpose. Nor should harmful wildlife expect to reside on my territory as a 'safe' zone.

I have spiders in the house, the Huntsman (similar to Tarantula) doesn't build webs and doesn't bite if you don't sit on it, and eats DLL spiders that do web everywhere. A good arrangement all round. I even tolerate the couple of Redbacks (Black Widows) that live in the laundry. They're well out of accidental contact range, they have nice little piles of insect bits under their nests to prove they're doing me a favour, and they don't hunt me so I don't hunt them.
Other nuisance ones that appear are toast but it's all a matter of balance.
 
Now folks, let's approach this subject from the rear. If I am going to indulge in my next ice cream cone, what in hell does it have to do with Beaver's anal glands. Should I order Uranus flavor or what?

Pappy we had an informative discussion about this before you came here. I'm sure you can search this forum for beaver anal glands and find it.

Briefly, beaver anal glands are use with or in place of in ice cream, Cadbury eggs and other products. Companies in the USA are not required to list it as such in the list of ingredients. They only list it as 'natural' flavor.

Enjoy your ice cream. I make my own without the glands.
 
FINALLY It's been over a week but I had a beaver in one of my traps this morning. A really big one too. I hauled it off for the coyotes and buzzards to fight over, then reset the trap.
 
Yea, I got another beaver in a trap this morning. :clap: I hope the rest will get wise and leave but I don't expect that will happen. My tongs were frozen shut so I couldn't get the trap off him yet. I hope the coyotes don't drag him away before I can get the trap.
But if they do I'll probably find the trap sooner or later. :magnify:
 


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