British Police: "Save A Life, Surrender Your Knife"

S

SifuPhil

R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
Location
Pennsylvania, USA
This isn't a parody - this is real. :(



Really? I can kill a person with a pencil, a rolled-up magazine or a screwdriver - should those be banned as well?

Note especially how the commenter draws attention to the false use of the term "amnesty".

It's during times like this I'm glad I live in the U.S.
 

Just a shame that idiot of a commentator who was just intent on taking the p out of the Lancashire police did not do his homework and research properly.

Several counties in the U.K. over a number of years have held knife amnesty's where thousands of knives have been handed in...........In 1995, 40,000 weapons were handed over during a similar amnesty launched after head teacher Philip Lawrence was stabbed to death outside his school in west London. Figures also show in the year following a month-long amnesty in Scotland in 1993, murders fell by 26%, attempted murder 19% and offensive weapons possession by 23%.

I have read where in the U.S. people are concerned about gun crime and that is no different to people in the U.K. being concerned about knife crime.
 

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, I reckon. Guns for a little longer distance, knives up close and personal. If you know how to use them, both are deadly. I wouldn't want to hand "in either one. I like guns, have guns. I love good knives, have knives.
 
I'll turn in my weapons just as soon as the authorities figure out a foolproof way to get guns out of the hands of the criminals. Besides, most of the gun deaths in the US take place in the inner cities among warring factions of the various drug and street gangs. If I could be sure that weapons would only be used among these scum bags, I would give them a couple.

Vehicle accidents kill far more people than guns...cell phone users are becoming more dangerous than drunk drivers....should we outlaw cell phones and cars?

Medical mistakes by doctors kill 10 times more people each year than guns....maybe we should boycott doctors.
 
I wouldn't turn in any guns or knives either, I agree with Don, most of the crime is done by criminals and gangs, who get their guns off the streets. Criminals won't be turning in their weapons, and law abiding citizens shouldn't either.
 
I think it should be acceptable on here, that the U.K. and the U.S have an entirely different approach to crime and the ways to reduce crimes, what we don't need in the U.K. is for that commentator to call those marchers idiots when clearly he is the idiot for picking on and taking the p on one particular counties police force when he hasn't done his homework to know that this isn't the first or only county to hold a knife amnesty over the years.
 
Yes, well said, Bee! Calling people idiots for marching down the street is not good reporting, especially when several of those marching have lost loved ones due to knife crime.


SeaBreeze said:
I wouldn't turn in any guns or knives either, I agree with Don, most of the crime is done by criminals and gangs, who get their guns off the streets. Criminals won't be turning in their weapons, and law abiding citizens shouldn't either.
Click to expand...

They are not asking for law abiding citizens in the UK to hand in any knives they may have. This campaign is about collecting knives from young people/gang members on the street. 10,000 knives have been handed in in London. So, it would appear that some criminals/gang/ex gang members have actually turned their weapons in.
 
I think the basic culture is different in the UK.

Once duelling went out of fashion there was never any need to carry a firearm or cold steel in the UK, but the US is different.

Ignoring your gun culture for the purpose of this argument, that is entirely your own affair and no business of anybody else, the trapper/frontiersman image is still very much part of your culture, and most of you think you could skin a buffalo without too much trouble. Over here just the thought of gralloching a deer would turn most people's stomachs!

Put an American down in a forest and he would immediately start trying to remember all those things about building a fire, while she would go looking for water. Do the same with a Brit and they would climb a tree looking for a mobile phone signal!
 
Hmmm, I had a switchblade as a youth and wouldn't have turned in as it cost me a pretty penny and it was required in those days just like suede shoes...
 
I agree that our respective cultures, hence our protective measures, are going to differ. What I have a problem with is the use of the term "amnesty".

Amnesty:

An undertaking by the authorities to take no action against specified offenses or offenders during a fixed period: a month-long weapons amnesty

~Oxford Dictionaries

Am I correct in assuming that possession of a knife (a "pointy" one, as if there were any other kind) in the UK is NOT presently against the law? If so, then it is impossible to grant an amnesty, since that action can only be taken against an illegal thing. By the use of that term they are conditioning the populace to accept that knives are illegal, even though they are not. Hence, the use of the term "false flag operation".

I believe that was the main argument of the commentator. Yes, he was snide and a bit histrionic, but he brought up the interesting point of criminals not being likely to turn in their weapons - I think in that regard he had a good point.

As for the crime stats decreasing - correlation is not necessarily causation. Perhaps the bad guys were just on holiday during the data-gathering. ;)
 
Amnesty is the correct word used...the following is a link to the CPS ( Crown Prosecution Service), there are several more links you can click onto and learn about our law admittedly a little confusing at times...http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapons_knives_bladed_and_pointed_articles/#a10

Also from one of the links..........Section 1A of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 makes it an offence to unlawfully and intentionally threaten another person with an offensve weapon in a public place, in such a way that there is an immediate risk of serious physical harm to that other person.
 
SifuPhil said:
This isn't a parody - this is real. :(



Really? I can kill a person with a pencil, a rolled-up magazine or a screwdriver - should those be banned as well?

Note especially how the commenter draws attention to the false use of the term "amnesty".

It's during times like this I'm glad I live in the U.S.
Click to expand...

Yea, I'm much rather get gunned down.
 
Bee said:
Just a shame that idiot of a commentator who was just intent on taking the p out of the Lancashire police did not do his homework and research properly.

Several counties in the U.K. over a number of years have held knife amnesty's where thousands of knives have been handed in...........In 1995, 40,000 weapons were handed over during a similar amnesty launched after head teacher Philip Lawrence was stabbed to death outside his school in west London. Figures also show in the year following a month-long amnesty in Scotland in 1993, murders fell by 26%, attempted murder 19% and offensive weapons possession by 23%.

I have read where in the U.S. people are concerned about gun crime and that is no different to people in the U.K. being concerned about knife crime.
Click to expand...

The difference is in the US you and dozens others can get killed by an automatic weapon in a few minutes. A bit more difficult with a knife.
 
Last edited:
Bee said:
Amnesty is the correct word used...the following is a link to the CPS ( Crown Prosecution Service), there are several more links you can click onto and learn about our law admittedly a little confusing at times...http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapons_knives_bladed_and_pointed_articles/#a10
Click to expand...

VERY confusing ...

It is illegal to:

  • sell a knife of any kind (including cutlery and kitchen knives) to anyone under 18
  • carry a knife in public without good reason - unless it’s a knife with a folding blade 3 inches long (7.62 cm) or less, eg a Swiss Army knife
  • carry, buy or sell any type of banned knife (the list of banned knives is below)
  • use any knife in a threatening way (even a legal knife, such as a Swiss Army knife)
Lock knives (knives with blades that can be locked when unfolded) are not folding knives, and are illegal to carry in public without good reason.
Click to expand...
Source: Gov.uk


Who are the arbiters of "good reason"? Isn't self-defense a good enough reason?

Blades 3" or less can still be used in a deadly fashion.

Lock knives ARE folding knives - in addition, they lock. Otherwise you cut your own fingers when the blade slips back.

I'm sorry but your knife laws are screwy, although to be honest the different State laws over here are no picnic either. :playful:

Also from one of the links..........Section 1A of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 makes it an offence to unlawfully and intentionally threaten another person with an offensve weapon in a public place, in such a way that there is an immediate risk of serious physical harm to that other person.
Click to expand...

Yes, I totally agree with that law, but once again, having honest people turn in their knives isn't going to stop the bad guys from keeping theirs. It's a Utopian view of society that won't work. It's similar to our own "Turn in your guns" routines - only the honest people, the ones who wouldn't use them on another person, turn them in.

The bad guys laugh and reload.

And back to "amnesty" - are they defining what knives are to be turned in? Are they specifying the over-3" knives, and the lock blades? Or are they leaving it all open, hoping nobody reads the laws?
 
The bottom line is that there is no need for most people to carry a knife in the UK, and if you have one nefarious intent is assumed, therefore the need for a "no questions asked" amnesty.

Even for allowed exceptions, like fishermen, gamekeepers and the like, the knife can only be carried on the person, or close to hand when actually doing the job.

You can keep a knife in the boot (trunk) of your car, but not in the glove compartment or door pocket.

Self defence is not a defence.

You must remember that in the UK it is an offence to "go equipped" i.e. to have implements which may assist in the commission of a crime, and this could be anything from a screwdriver, a bottle of ammonia to an ATM skimming device, and is is an offence to be in possession of an "offensive weapon" and this could be anything from a screwdriver, a baseball bat, a tyre lever, a wheelwrench, a pool cue,or perhaps a chain.

The decision as to whether a particular item is being carried for "offensive" purposes is down to the individual copper and it is up to you to convince him/her that you need it for legitimate purposes.

You are the ones that live in the "Land of the Free" not us!
 
Dame Warrigal said:
No, but perhaps you should be banned on the grounds that you are a very dangerous person. :eek1:
Click to expand...

I disagree with calling someone a dangerous person, who is just intelligent and capable of protecting himself/inflicting harm on another if necessary as self-defense, without having to depend on customary "weapons" or a government nanny. There should be more "dangerous" people like SifuPhil in this world, it would be a much better place for all of us.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
No, but perhaps you should be banned on the grounds that you are a very dangerous person. :eek1:
Click to expand...

That's the plan of our government ...

For myself, I don't need people to respect me - just to fear me. :cool:

Laurie said:
The bottom line is that there is no need for most people to carry a knife in the UK, and if you have one nefarious intent is assumed, therefore the need for a "no questions asked" amnesty.
Click to expand...

Assumed guilty, eh? I forgot for a moment that much of our U.S. law comes from the UK.

Self defence is not a defence.
Click to expand...

So to be fully compliant with the law I would need to be stabbed to death?

You must remember that in the UK it is an offence to "go equipped" i.e. to have implements which may assist in the commission of a crime, and this could be anything from a screwdriver, a bottle of ammonia to an ATM skimming device, and is is an offence to be in possession of an "offensive weapon" and this could be anything from a screwdriver, a baseball bat, a tyre lever, a wheelwrench, a pool cue,or perhaps a chain.

The decision as to whether a particular item is being carried for "offensive" purposes is down to the individual copper and it is up to you to convince him/her that you need it for legitimate purposes.
Click to expand...

Wow, talk about "guilty until proven innocent"!

Do you not see the fatal flaw in that law?

As I mentioned earlier, I've been trained to view any environment I find myself in as a potential arsenal. While the majority of people will look at the pretty paintings in the museum or the handsome flower arrangement on the table in the restaurant, I'm looking at fire exits and potential improvised weapons. That's just how I was trained and how I've lived my life.

In your country I'd probably be locked up within 10 minutes of touching down at the airport.

You are the ones that live in the "Land of the Free" not us!
Click to expand...

It certainly seems that way! ;)

SeaBreeze said:
I disagree with calling someone a dangerous person, who is just intelligent and capable of protecting himself/inflicting harm on another if necessary as self-defense, without having to depend on customary "weapons" or a government nanny. There should be more "dangerous" people like SifuPhil in this world, it would be a much better place for all of us.
Click to expand...

Aww, thank you, Sea!

Your name has been placed on my list of "Those Who Will Be Spared During The Great Purge". :cool::D
 
SifuPhil said:
For myself, I don't need people to respect me - just to fear me. :cool:
Click to expand...
See, SeaBreeze, I was right. He is dangerous.

Now where is that tongue-in-cheek smiley?
Never mind. I think I've found it.

:tongue:

Being serious for the moment, I agree with the UK approach of making it an offence to "go equipped" with whatever implements are likely to be used in the commission of a crime. Sawn off shotties come to mind, especially when accompanied by balaclavas. Try explaining that combination to the police as hunting equipment.
 
Not all pirates are made in the image of Johnny Depp.

300px-OSTJackSmileCropped.jpg


Most were much more dangerous. For example Edward Teach (Blackbeard)
Blackbeard_McShane_Potc_Ost_Concept_Art_III.jpg
 
It is always wise to remember the saying..."When Danger is Only Seconds away, the Police are Only Minutes Away". That applies in the U.S. probably more so than in the UK, Europe, and Australia. Here we have millions of career criminals walking the streets, between arrests, and huge numbers of Black and Latino drug and street gang members that are turning ever larger sections of our major cities into zones of anarchy.

However, the people of Europe may one day have to rethink the disarming of their citizens as the Muslim fanatics continue to invade that area of the globe, and attempt to force Sharia Law on the existing populations. Some of the "Imams" are predicting that England will become an Islamic state during the latter half of this century. Already, it appears that the UK is supplying substantial manpower to the ISIS fanatics in Iraq/Syria.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top