British Police: "Save A Life, Surrender Your Knife"

Geez, knives are tools mostly, aren't they? I mean to eat with, to cut up chicken and clean fish, and any sort of hunting, artwork where you carve wood etc.? I guess if they want to ban knives they have to be really specific what type? Or it's legal to use knives for this, this and this. I probably missed something on the thread, but the whole thing seemed confusing, like, is this a joke.

I'll read it further tomorrow, I'm tired tonight, just downloading a christmas movie, LOL, I know I know, but I love christmas;)
 

Denise, I do think it reasonable for the police to assume that if someone has a cut throat razor tucked into his boots then he is more than likely intending to harm someone rather than give himself a close shave. I like it that they can take it away from him unless he can offer a very good explanation.

Similarly, someone with a machete in his hand on the forecourt of the Sydney Opera House is probably not a member of the orchestra and may be planning to use it in a nasty way. A plea of self defence from gangsters and muggers will not cut any ice with the constabulary.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
See, SeaBreeze, I was right. He is dangerous.
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I'm only dangerous to those who seek to harm me or mine. Is that so wrong?

Being serious for the moment, I agree with the UK approach of making it an offence to "go equipped" with whatever implements are likely to be used in the commission of a crime. Sawn off shotties come to mind, especially when accompanied by balaclavas. Try explaining that combination to the police as hunting equipment.
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But there's the rub: the police have been given the power of assumption, a very dangerous element in the formation of a totalitarian state.

Am I to assume that they are trained in mind reading? That they will automatically nay-say my self-defense plea? It sure sounds like it. No longer am I innocent until proven guilty - now I'm automatically a bad guy because I choose to posses a certain implement, much as Lord Baden-Powell urged every Boy Scout.

And it IS an implement. Unlike guns it has uses other than the taking of lives. In effect, the police would now be profiling me.

Good luck living under your new masters.

Ina said:
SifuPhil's a pirate, don't you know?
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Not all pirates are bad. Many of the horror stories ascribed to them were created either by the public or themselves (like Edward Teach), in order to eliminate competition. In fact, many got their beginnings in the Royal Navy - talk about irony! After their official plundering seals of approval expired they had no choice but to become free-lancers. So it can be said that they were government trained and sponsored ...

Hmm ... government-sponsored terrorism. Why does that sound so familiar?

Don M said:
"When Danger is Only Seconds away, the Police are Only Minutes Away"
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How very true, Don, as well as the rest of your post.

nwlady said:
Geez, knives are tools mostly, aren't they?
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Yes they are, unless you're a member of certain Hindu sects that sleep with them (Gurkhas come to mind). How else could you carve the initials of your girlfriend in a tree? How else do you clean under your fingernails?

"Honest, officer - I'm on my way to the Mumblety-Peg tournament!" :p

Dame Warrigal said:
Denise, I do think it reasonable for the police to assume that if someone has a cut throat razor tucked into his boots then he is more than likely intending to harm someone rather than give himself a close shave.
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An extravagant example, as is the Opera House one. Your trust in the constabulary is touching, but I think misguided.

Who watches the watchers?

Again, every Boy Scout is admonished to carry a knife in order to "be prepared". Shall all Boy Scouts then be deemed terrorists and tossed in the hoosegow?
 

Don M. said:
It is always wise to remember the saying..."When Danger is Only Seconds away, the Police are Only Minutes Away". That applies in the U.S. probably more so than in the UK, Europe, and Australia. Here we have millions of career criminals walking the streets, between arrests, and huge numbers of Black and Latino drug and street gang members that are turning ever larger sections of our major cities into zones of anarchy.

However, the people of Europe may one day have to rethink the disarming of their citizens as the Muslim fanatics continue to invade that area of the globe, and attempt to force Sharia Law on the existing populations. Some of the "Imams" are predicting that England will become an Islamic state during the latter half of this century. Already, it appears that the UK is supplying substantial manpower to the ISIS fanatics in Iraq/Syria.
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Supplying eh!?? do you think the U.K. is contacting ISIS and telling them we can supply manpower???...................thanks for starting my day off with a laugh.:D
 

Phil for all you trying to critisise the U.K. police and U.K. laws and thinking you are 'clever' with it, I feel a damn site safer living in my country than what I ever would living in your country........................my last word on this, I really can't be bothered any more.
 
Phil, over here boy scouts don't have to carry knives unless you mean the one in their mess kit or the Swiss army knife in their back pack. If you have read earlier posts they would have no problem with the police.

As for this
That they will automatically nay-say my self-defense plea?
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In my country and in the UK, yes, they would automatically ignore your self defence plea because it is invalid.

And I have to disagree with Bee because when I was roaming around your country I felt perfectly safe without the benefit of any deadly weapons at all about my person. Not even a Crocodile Dundee knife to fall back on. The exception was the sentries outside some military establishments. They were very smartly dressed but their manner was very intimidating.

Ours are much friendlier, just like a favourite uncle. The pistol in their holster seems more ornamental than threatening. You can say "G'day mate" and have a joke while the sign you in.

I do trust the police over here. They are not storm troopers at all.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Phil, over here boy scouts don't have to carry knives unless you mean the one in their mess kit or the Swiss army knife in their back pack. If you have read earlier posts they would have no problem with the police.
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So they get a special exemption? Interesting.


In my country and in the UK, yes, they would automatically ignore your self defence plea because it is invalid.
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Now THAT is amazing - that I do not have a right to defend myself.

And I have to disagree with Bee because when I was roaming around your country I felt perfectly safe without the benefit of any deadly weapons at all about my person. Not even a Crocodile Dundee knife to fall back on. The exception was the sentries outside some military establishments. They were very smartly dressed but their manner was very intimidating.
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I'm glad you felt safe. I can't help but wonder if you also visited some of our more "challenging" neighborhoods, the ones with steel doors in front and metal shutters over the windows. Those are the kinds of places I have in mind.

Ours are much friendlier, just like a favourite uncle. The pistol in their holster seems more ornamental than threatening. You can say "G'day mate" and have a joke while the sign you in.
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I wouldn't try that with the SAS, though ... ;)

I do trust the police over here. They are not storm troopers at all.
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Then you are lucky, because more and more ours seem to be turning into just that.
 
"Assumed guilty, eh? I forgot for a moment that much of our U.S. law comes from the UK. "

Of course assumed guilty. It's against the law to carry a knife. If you carry one you're guilty of an offence. What's the big deal?

"So to be fully compliant with the law I would need to be stabbed to death? "

No, but you must not defend yourself with something specifically carried for that purpose ( and,ladies, that includes a pepper spray in the handbag!)

"Wow, talk about "guilty until proven innocent"!

Do you not see the fatal flaw in that law? "

Works reasonably well in practice. If you are found in somebody's yard at 2 in the afternoon with a ladder you'll be given the benefit if the doubt if you have a bucket of water and a chamois leather.

If you are found there at 2 in morning with a ladder and no bucket you won't be!

Of course there's a fatal flaw in that law, but that's the law, and I either abide by it or change it.


"That's just how I was trained and how I've lived my life. "

So have I, and if you'd ever seen how quickly people look up and start edging away when someone puts their bag down at Belfast airport while they look for their ticket you'd realize that it's a way of life for many people, and has been since the 1960s.

We've never had to fight the government for our freedom, so we're not all that bothered by these things. You, in America, fought hard and long for you freedom and guard it jealously.

Like I said, it's a different culture!
 
Bee said:
Supplying eh!?? do you think the U.K. is contacting ISIS and telling them we can supply manpower???...................thanks for starting my day off with a laugh.:D
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Perhaps the UK news isn't showing the videos of this Fanatic with a Very British accent holding the knife as he prepares to Behead the next ISIS hostage?????
 
We live in very different countries with different laws.Nobody that I know worries about not being able to go out with a knife hidden about themselves.In London, where there are many ethnic gangs, some teenagers want to carry them for personal safety reasons [they say] so they get hit or kicked by someone, and they whip out their knife and stab them . Result, sometimes in the death of the other boy, and a jail sentence [and a ruined life] for the boy with the knife.That's what the knife amnesty is about, there have been several and it's amazing what awful things have been handed in, machete's, scimitar's etc.
 
Don M. said:
Perhaps the UK news isn't showing the videos of this Fanatic with a Very British accent holding the knife as he prepares to Behead the next ISIS hostage?????
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Of course we have seen the news in the U.K. and we have read all about Jihadi Johnnie............but you obviously didn't get the meaning of my post, it was the fact you used the word supply as if the U.K. is purposely sending these people out to help ISIS....................perhaps it is a language barrier.
 
Yes, British/English, etc., is more a question of "word choice", than anything. However, if the news reports are correct, there are over 1500 "Europeans" who have migrated to the ISIS battles, and it is just a question of time before they bring some of their newly learned "skills" back to their homelands, and begin a reign of terror in those nations.
 
Don M. said:
Yes, British/English, etc., is more a question of "word choice", than anything. However, if the news reports are correct, there are over 1500 "Europeans" who have migrated to the ISIS battles, and it is just a question of time before they bring some of their newly learned "skills" back to their homelands, and begin a reign of terror in those nations.
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Yes..these Europeans are usually from Pakistan..emigrated here..or were born here..but still affected by on-line grooming...
 
Another hopeless thing that the British Government is proposing is to take their Brit passports away from them..

No matter how bad they are..you cannot leave a person stateless...by law..
 
Dame Warrigal said:
Denise, I do think it reasonable for the police to assume that if someone has a cut throat razor tucked into his boots then he is more than likely intending to harm someone rather than give himself a close shave. I like it that they can take it away from him unless he can offer a very good explanation.

Similarly, someone with a machete in his hand on the forecourt of the Sydney Opera House is probably not a member of the orchestra and may be planning to use it in a nasty way. A plea of self defence from gangsters and muggers will not cut any ice with the constabulary.
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I understand that Dame, I was wondering how they were going to separate out the "types".
 
If I were European, I would be increasingly concerned about Muslim terrorism....and the ability of these fanatics to move across national borders. Even here, thousands of miles from these battles, we have to contend with the possibility of Homegrown Terrorism....as witnessed by the Boston Marathon bombing, etc. It's unfortunate, but we are all faced with increased police intrusion and monitoring of our lives, and it will probably get even worse....because of the constant threat of these senseless acts.
 
Don't forget that these countries were part of ''The British Empire'' so they have a right to a British passport..
 
We have lots of Muslims living here in peace...disgusted by what is happening..I wouldn't put them all in the same boat..
 
Really Bee..where are they from originally?

I have Muslims in my family also..from Algeria..It's my hubbies family really..but they are so kind..
 
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I don't know any Muslims as friends or colleagues but I am in dialogue with a number of young Muslim women on Facebook. Something that I hear often and which frustrates these women is "why don't the moderate Muslims speak out against terrorism?" Being constantly associated with fanaticism is very distressing and alienating. The truth seems to be that the media does not usually give voice to the moderate Muslim voice.

Here is one occasion that they did : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/qasim...ort_b_6162592.html?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063

And here is another: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/24/muslim-scholars-islamic-state_n_5878038.html

Note that both are from the Huffington Post, one of the few media outlets that actually reports in depth on matters of religion. The ABC in Australia also does but very few people bother to seek out the Religion and Ethics Report. If they did they would find thoughtful articles like this one : http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2014/07/11/4043888.htm

By the way, these young women have welcomed me, a 71 yo Christian, with respect and courtesy and value my input. Together we are building bridges of peace and harmony.
 
History is replete with violence being used in the name of religion...
 

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