Children in GAZA are Asked to Draw A Picture of What the Future May Look Like

Perhaps if the US quit giving Israel $3 billion dollars every year, Israel would be forced to learn to live in peace. Unfortunately, AIPAC will always be there to make sure that the American tax payer continues the 'welfare' checks even though it only adds to your total debt and you get nothing in return.
 

Since the establishment of limited Palestinian self-rule in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the
mid-1990s, the U.S. government has committed approximately $5 billion in bilateral assistance to
the Palestinians, who are among the world’s largest per capita recipients of international foreign
aid.

Should we also stop our aid to the Palestinians as long as they continue launching rockets into Israel?
 
Josiah09 said:
Since the establishment of limited Palestinian self-rule in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the
mid-1990s, the U.S. government has committed approximately $5 billion in bilateral assistance to
the Palestinians, who are among the world’s largest per capita recipients of international foreign
aid.

Should we also stop our aid to the Palestinians as long as they continue launching rockets into Israel?
Click to expand...


A year ago, Ahmad Tibi walked out as my PM was giving a speech in the Knesset. My curiosity about why he would do that began a in-depth search for the truth of what is going on in that region. I have read UN documents, investigations from both global human rights groups as well as those of Israeli origin (who speak for the Palestinians), newspaper accounts, ex-IDF testimonials to the atrocities they perpetrated against a helpless population and books on the history of the region beginning in 1917 when the British first wrote the Balfour Declaration that turned the area into a 'Jewish homeland'. I've also done some research into the various agreements (and their outcomes) that have been signed by both sides down through the years.

Israel is and has been guilty for the past fifty years of systematic ethnic cleansing, food and water deprivation, murder of unarmed civilians including children, using children as human shields, 27,000 home demolitions.....the list is long and terrible. Not to mention ongoing settler violence that is protected by the IDF at the expense of the lives and freedom of the Palestinian victims. And six times as many Palestinians have died as a result of Israel oppression and violence, as have Israeli's.

The USA has given Israel $115 billion in aid, which they've used to build settlements on the Occupied Territories in defiance of the Geneva Convention which Israel is a signatory to, and to oppress the Palestinian people. That compares to about $4 billion (as of 2012) which has been given to the Palestinians. However, it is also my understanding that the aid money is given 'through' Israel who doles it out.

Let me ask you Josiah, if someone came into your state, and forced you out of your home, shot your children, stole your farm, wouldn't let you have access to water and minimized your access to food and medicine, indeed even said you could neither use nor cross the roads in your state........what would you do? Would there come a point where you began to fight back or would you just roll over and wait to die?
 
Debby, I do not wish to play the role of apologist for Israel. They have been guilty of many very objectionable policies. However, in your original comment you said "Israel would be forced to learn to live in peace". Bear in mind that throughout this entire conflict the Palestinian Authority has refused to agree that Israel has any right to exist. This statement is written into their charter. So they are in effect saying that under no circumstances will they agree to a peace treaty with Israel. So Debby, while I agree with you that Israel should learn to live in peace with the Palestinians, it appears to me that there is an equal need for the Palestinians "to learn to live in peace" and agree that Israel has a right to exist.
 
US aid goes directly to the Palestinians and not through any Jewish distribution system.

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf

U.S. Foreign Aid to the Palestinians
Congressional Research Service

(Partial copy)

Summary


Since the establishment of limited Palestinian self-rule in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the
mid-1990s, the U.S. government has committed approximately $5 billion in bilateral assistance to
the Palestinians, who are among the world’s largest per capita recipients of international foreign
aid. Successive Administrations have requested aid for the Palestinians in apparent support of at
least three major U.S. policy priorities of interest to Congress:


• Preventing terrorism against Israel from Hamas and other militant organizations.

• Fostering stability, prosperity, and self-governance in the West Bank that inclines
Palestinians toward peaceful coexistence with Israel and a “two-state solution.”

• Meeting humanitarian needs.


Between June 2007 and June 2014, these U.S. policy priorities crystallized around the factional
and geographical split between the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank and
Hamas in the Gaza Strip. The formation of a PA government in June 2014 pursuant to a Fatah-
Hamas agreement has raised a number of questions regarding the implications for Palestinian
unity, prospects for Israeli-Palestinian peace and security, and U.S. aid. The Obama
Administration has stated its intent to continue financial assistance to the PA and to carefully
monitor the new government’s composition and actions, while several Members of Congress have
voiced skepticism and are considering changing conditions under which aid can flow to the PA.
From FY2008 to the present, annual Economic Support Fund (ESF) assistance to the West Bank
and Gaza Strip has averaged around $400 million, with that amount divided between U.S. Agency
for International Development (USAID)-administered project assistance (through grants to
contracting organizations) and direct budgetary assistance to the Palestinian Authority (PA).
Annual International Narcotics Control and Law Enforcement (INCLE) nonlethal assistance for

PA security forces and the criminal justice sector in the West Bank has averaged around $100
million. In line with Obama Administration requests, funding levels declined slightly in FY2013,
with a new baseline of overall annual ESF assistance of $370 million, and a new baseline of
annual INCLE assistance of $70 million.

Because of congressional concerns that, among other things, U.S. aid to the Palestinians might be
diverted to Palestinian terrorist groups, the aid is subject to a host of vetting and oversight
requirements and legislative restrictions. Additionally, since FY2011, Congress has taken various
forms of action in response to Palestinian initiatives in the United Nations and other international
forums aimed at increasing international recognition of Palestinian statehood outside of
negotiations with Israel. Additionally, the United States is the largest single-state donor to the
U.N. Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA).

U.S. assistance to the Palestinians is given alongside assistance from other international donors,
and U.S. policy makers routinely call for greater or more timely assistance from Arab
governments in line with pledges those governments make. The PA remains dependent on
external donor assistance to meet its budgetary needs—especially its large public payroll—and it
also seeks foreign investment to jumpstart its private sector. Even if the immediate objectives of

U.S. assistance programs for the Palestinians are met, the long-term utility of U.S. aid in
encouraging regional stability and Palestinian economic and political self-sufficiency might
depend to some extent on progress toward a political solution that addresses Palestinian national
aspirations and Israeli security demands.


 
On at least two occasions, Palestinians have signed on to the statement that Israel does have a right to exist and Israel backed out of the agreements. From what I've read, Israel is no more interested in peace than any of the Palestinians have been (with those two noted exceptions, one of them being an agreement with Arafat as the signatory).

I read one writer referring to Israel's methods as 'soft genocide' which basically means that by whatever means possible, they will have a Jewish only state and if that means making the lives of Palestinians so miserable that they finally leave, then that's good too, but if it means killing as many of them as possible, then that's also okay.

And I am curious, how would you and every American act if some other group, backed by a super-power came in and started doing to you what has been done to the Palestinians, react. That's a question that no one ever wants to answer. Let's give it some historical relevance. When the British 'owned' America, did you guys get up 'freedom fighters/terrorists' who drove the Red Coats out? I suppose that label depends on what kind of spin you want to put on the situation doesn't it? Now think of it in terms of being walled into Gaza while Israel is bombing you with highly technical weapons (thanks to the USA) and you have your little rockets.

And in case there are any Jewish people here, let me hasten to add, that it's in my nature to get behind the little guy who's being oppressed. If it was a case of a 'greater' Arab nation doing terrible things to Jewish folk, I'd be speaking up for and doing the research that shows how unfairly they are being treated. Looking back on what Hitler did to the Jewish people, I am likewise filled with revulsion because in my opinion, no one has the right to do these things to anyone.
 
BobF said:
US aid goes directly to the Palestinians and not through any Jewish distribution system.

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22967.pdf

U.S. Foreign Aid to the Palestinians
Congressional Research Service

(Partial copy)

.............. stability and Palestinian economic and political self-sufficiency might
depend to some extent on progress toward a political solution that addresses Palestinian national
aspirations and Israeli security demands.


Click to expand...


Thank you for correcting me on that Bob. I must have been thinking of the taxes that Israel collects 'on behalf of ' the Palestinians. And by the way, did you know that on one occasion and for a period of a year, possibly two, Israel refused to give those tax funds over to the Palestinians, meaning that for that duration, people like garbage collectors, doctors, teachers, etc, didn't get paid their wages?
 
OK Debbie, just stop your hateful one sided nonsense and if you do have proofs. post them so the rest of us can see you are really serious and not just hateful.
 
My point is that problems exist on both sides of this conflict. Regrettably religious fanatics on both sides have stoked the fires of hatred. I have very little toleration for religious fanaticism and so I think I will bow out of this discussion. As-salamu alaykum and Shalom
 
BobF said:
OK Debbie, just stop your hateful one sided nonsense and if you do have proofs. post them so the rest of us can see you are really serious and not just hateful.
Click to expand...


http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ahmad-tibi-why-i-walked-out-on-stephen-harper-s-speech-1.2503975 Tibi walks out on Harper

http://www.ochaopt.org/documents/cas_aug07.pdf UN paper on Palestinian fatalities at the hands of Israel

http://www.thehypertexts.com/Zionist Quotes.htm Zionist quotations (the one about learning from Hitler is exceptional)

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/1/13/noam_chomsky_sabra_shatila_massacre_that Ariel Sharon massacres 2000 Palestinians

http://www.vtjp.org/background/gazaweapons.php Israel uses chemical weapons on Gaza (where's the red line USA?)

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=672232 Palestinian homes demolished

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ great video of speech-ex-IDF supports Palestinian people in their fight for rights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ovdA1VZ-c Jewish settlers stone Palestinian children on way to school

http://www.btselem.org/settler_violence/dual_legal_system Settler violence (Jewish human rights group report)

http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/videos/72822 IDF tank commander shoots child who is throwing stones

http://www.tikkun.org/nextgen/israe...flections-from-a-former-idf-soldier-in-hebron IDF American reports

http://forward.com/articles/169898/israels-decision-to-withhold-tax-money-from-palest/?p=all Israel withholds tax money

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.578460 3 Days and no water for Palestinians in E. Jerusalem

http://www.cryptogon.com/?p=44618 Israel 'puts Palestinians on a diet' but not enough to kill them.....

ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/006/j1575e/j1575e06.pdf UN document on food insecurity for Palestinians

There, a few of the articles and documents that I've come across in the past year. That should keep you occupied for a while as you learn about how Israel makes the Palestinian people struggle to survive. As for every other discussion on foreign affairs that I've been involved in, I've laid out numerous links to documents that support everything I've said.
 
SeaBreeze said:
I'm an American, but I like to hear both sides of the story, as I don't trust everything that is told to us on the TV news anymore. Here's an article on the Palestinian perspective, and the video they refer to is also available online to see for those interested, but I will not be re-posting it in this thread. http://electronicintifada.net/conte...raeli-palestinian-conflict-coverage-task/5037
Click to expand...


Thanks for the link SeaBreeze! Definitely going to bookmark this one. It pretty much backs up everything that I've learned about the region over the past year of reading and researching.

It mentions the 2000-woman protest march of Palestinian and Jewish women that nobody heard about and I would like to add to that, once a week, the Palestinian people in various towns and villages hold peaceful marches in emulation of Gandhi's methods. Unfortunately for them, those peaceful marches are usually met by violence from the IDF as Palestinians are prohibited from gathering in groups of more than ten. (Puts a crimp on family gatherings or other celebrations doesn't it?)

'...The IDF also punishes villages known for nonviolent civil disobedience campaigns in other ways. Nonviolent demonstrators have been arrested and imprisoned for “incitement”; children can be detained and processed in the IDF’s notoriously gruesome military court system, whose treatment of children UNICEF has called“cruel, inhumane and degrading”...'

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/blog/dear-nick-kristof-your-palestinian-gandhis-are-already-here
 
Debby, that is a long list of one sided stuff. I looked at some, but not all. The support, maybe, your own idea of right and wrong but not all sides.

Look into this segment of the problems for Israel over the years. Iran is a number one hater of the Jewish lands settlement of the UN to Israel. Iran has done nothing in recent years but perpetuate all this hatred for Israel and Israels efforts to defend themselves from so much outside hate. Iran supports some military units that have come into the Palestinian areas and taken over much of the government areas where they settled in. They carry a lot of Iran's hatred for the UN set up for Israel and make no bones about it. They have built lots of underground military setups and fire lots of rockets from within the Palestinian area into Israels cities and territory. Time for Israel to stand up and return the battle to the hidden warriors of Palestine put there by Iran and their evil ways of thinking. Right now the US President is allowing Iran to build nuclear weapons grade supplies knowing that in the end Iran will most likely attack the US and their neighbors with any weapons they do develop. This is the problem for Israel. They are facing hateful governments that intend to destroy Israel even though Israel is a creation of the UN. Really no question why so many countries of the UN are not well with what Iran and their actions are doing against Israel.

Israel has a right to fight for their authorized existence and freedoms. Israel has won different attacks from the nations around them. Israel had won great areas of land by winning those wars, but nearly all was then returned to the previous owners, Egypt and others really lost no lands when they did lose the battles. Some small areas did remain in Israeli hands after the wars ended. Israel is asking to be left alone so they can live without wars and have given many non Jewish folks the ability to live in Israel if they choose.
 
Looks like Israel is teaming up with google and youtube now to censor any videos that may be posted about the ongoing conflict by the Palestinians. Can't believe they are using control to stop freedom of speech so everyone can know what is really happening over thereM. I think this stinks. More here.

The Israeli move comes amidst escalating tension in occupied Palestine, and a large number of videos, including those showing Israeli soldiers and officers killing Palestinians execution-style after injuring them, and many videos that in general highlight the suffering of the Palestinian people, living under the illegal Israeli occupation of Palestine.
Click to expand...

The Israeli coordination with Google and YouTube has very serious implications, and many journalists have spoken out in opposition, saying it is a direct assault on the Freedom of the Press.

All foreign journalists who report in the Occupied Territories are required to register with the Israeli military, and any footage that they film is required to go through the Israeli Military Censor’s office before it can be released.

With the recent advances in technology, many Palestinians and other civilians have been able to post videos uncensored online.

The Israeli government has frequently voiced its discontent with this development, and have worked to find ways to continue to censor videos coming out of the Occupied Palestinian Territories.
Click to expand...
 
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