Could you willfully believe something if there was a significant reward in it?

Well, the reason I asked the question was this:
The majority of what we believe is probably false or partly false, but we cling to it nevertheless as though it were true. We even seek out evidence to validate what we already believe and reject any contrary information. Most everyone is fairly certain they are correct, and others who believe differently are wrong.

Just take religion as one example. There are 10,000 or more beliefs about a diety or a cosmic consciousness. There are even a vast number of beliefs within just the category of Christianity. Now, assuming there is only one true reality, guess how many are wrong about what they believe.

Even the things we take as fact by the science community, are not necessarily fact. That's why they are called theories, because science is constantly revising them, or finding that what they thought was true, isn't, but we think of them as scientific fact.

It is interesting how many things we believe, because we have been programmed that way by culture, education, books, social media, society, and even experiences that are interpreted by the brain through the lens of the belief system. The brain is also programmed to link cause and effect, even though we have no proof that they are connected, but we believe it nonetheless.

With that in mind, it is surprising that we would reject something that we can't "know" for sure if it's true, but we firmly believe so many others that aren't. We would sacrifice a great benefit to believe something that might be true for something we cling to that may very well be false.
 

RadishRose said:
Sorry, The question doesn't make sense to me. :unsure:
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Yes, it does. Say someone wants you to believe that believing in something will benefit you, like believe in God and someday you'll go to heaven. Or quick smoking and you'll live longer. Quit eating refined sugar and you'll be healthier. You may not really believe it but there is an attractive payoff if you can go along with it like you do believe it. So you do. It does make sense. Maybe I explained it badly but I tired. I understand what he is saying. :giggle:
 

"Could you willfully believe something if there was a significant reward in it?" ​

​

Ephesians 2:8-10​

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Hebrews 11:1-3​

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Hebrews 10:22-23​

… let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.

Psalm 119:30​

I have chosen the way of faithfulness; I have set my heart on your laws.

2 Corinthians 5:7​

For we walk by faith, not by sight.

James 2:14-17​

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

​

James 1:2-4​

Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

1 Thessalonians 1:3​

We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 3:17-18​

If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

Galatians 5:5-6​

For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Faith is our strength​

Our faith can motivate us to love more deeply and act more courageously than we could on our own. That faith-motivated love leads to some of the most beautiful earthly expressions of Christianity.

Hebrews 10:39​

But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

Mark 11:22-23​

“Have faith in God,” Jesus answered. “Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them.

Philippians 4:13​

I can do all this through him who gives me strength.

Mark 10:27​

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”

Timothy 2:7-8​

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day — and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

1 Corinthians 16:13​

Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be courageous; be strong.

​

1 Corinthians 13:13​

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Faith calls us to belief and action, and when we are discouraged or weary, faith reminds us that we’re not in this alone. Our God, who’s even more passionate about justice than we are, stands with us and gives us strength.
 
No, that would be a fake "belief." I agree with those who said, "You believe what you believe." You could claim to believe something in order to get the reward, but that is not believing, it is lying.

Of course, I am talking about earthly reward. Anyone promising rewards in "heaven" is just guessing. And the fact that someone wrote it down in the Bible doesn't make it true.
 
bobcat said:
Well, the reason I asked the question was this:
The majority of what we believe is probably false or partly false, but we cling to it nevertheless as though it were true. We even seek out evidence to validate what we already believe and reject any contrary information. Most everyone is fairly certain they are correct, and others who believe differently are wrong.

Just take religion as one example. There are 10,000 or more beliefs about a diety or a cosmic consciousness. There are even a vast number of beliefs within just the category of Christianity. Now, assuming there is only one true reality, guess how many are wrong about what they believe.

Even the things we take as fact by the science community, are not necessarily fact. That's why they are called theories, because science is constantly revising them, or finding that what they thought was true, isn't, but we think of them as scientific fact.

It is interesting how many things we believe, because we have been programmed that way by culture, education, books, social media, society, and even experiences that are interpreted by the brain through the lens of the belief system. The brain is also programmed to link cause and effect, even though we have no proof that they are connected, but we believe it nonetheless.

With that in mind, it is surprising that we would reject something that we can't "know" for sure if it's true, but we firmly believe so many others that aren't. We would sacrifice a great benefit to believe something that might be true for something we cling to that may very well be false.
Click to expand...

Not quite with you, Bobcat. The scientific process is one of proposal, and validation. A theory is the consensus based on available evidence. It recognizes however that we may learn something different down the road, and what we "know" today may be invalidated. The door is always half open. Isn't this the very best we can do? A scientific fact is just that, but facts don't have to be true for all of eternity. We live in this pocket of time, and we simply follow what we currently know.

Religion is a whole different thing. A lot depends on where you're born. Born in the US, you're more likely to be Christian. Born in India and you're far more likely to be Hindu. Born in China and it's mostly a Chinese Folk Religion. The Japanese are mostly Shinto. To be frank, this is one of the biggest flaws I see in religion.

I also object (if I may) to your use of the word "programmed". We're not programmed, we're educated. Some people continue that education throughout their lives, some not. Some go off on wild tangents. But we're not programmed. You can break out once you reach self-awareness. Once you recognize that Christianity largely comes from your place of birth, you can examine alternatives.

Mostly, we should never be afraid of progress.
 
My response is, no.

Why do most of these questions always lead back to religion or some scientific theory? Everyone has his or her belief or at least some measure of having believed something at one point in his/her life, but change course later. We learn to think for ourselves and discard what we call garbage and apply that which we retain for later use.

I rarely think in terms of what God intended or what a passage in the bible states when pondering what to believe or not. I turn to logic and common sense instead and research what interests me.
 
chic said:
Yes, it does. Say someone wants you to believe that believing in something will benefit you, like believe in God and someday you'll go to heaven. Or quick smoking and you'll live longer. Quit eating refined sugar and you'll be healthier. You may not really believe it but there is an attractive payoff if you can go along with it like you do believe it. So you do. It does make sense. Maybe I explained it badly but I tired. I understand what he is saying. :giggle:
Click to expand...
They did a study some time back that was interesting, and here is the takeaway: Now, a new study finds that even when researchers tell people that what they will receive contains no active ingredients, a placebo can produce a positive neurobiological effect.

There seems to be a mind-body connection that is baffling, but the body responds to the taking of the pill as a signal that it will have a desired effect. Strange.
 
Sunny said:
Anyone promising rewards in "heaven" is just guessing. And the fact that someone wrote it down in the Bible doesn't make it true.
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"Just guessing?"...more like just believing, no?
"The fact that it's written in the Bible doesn't make it true"?...that's why it's called "Believing" or "Faith", no?
No one knows everything for sure. According to my faith, only God is all knowing aka Omniscient.
 
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VaughanJB said:
Not quite with you, Bobcat. The scientific process is one of proposal, and validation. A theory is the consensus based on available evidence. It recognizes however that we may learn something different down the road, and what we "know" today may be invalidated. The door is always half open. Isn't this the very best we can do? A scientific fact is just that, but facts don't have to be true for all of eternity. We live in this pocket of time, and we simply follow what we currently know.

Religion is a whole different thing. A lot depends on where you're born. Born in the US, you're more likely to be Christian. Born in India and you're far more likely to be Hindu. Born in China and it's mostly a Chinese Folk Religion. The Japanese are mostly Shinto. To be frank, this is one of the biggest flaws I see in religion.

I also object (if I may) to your use of the word "programmed". We're not programmed, we're educated. Some people continue that education throughout their lives, some not. Some go off on wild tangents. But we're not programmed. You can break out once you reach self-awareness. Once you recognize that Christianity largely comes from your place of birth, you can examine alternatives.

Mostly, we should never be afraid of progress.
Click to expand...
I respect your opinion on the matter, but from what I read, we are a programable species, and yes, we are programed. Perhaps we are just talking semantics here, and referring to the same thing. Anyway, I would love to talk more, but I have to get ready for a social event, so maybe catch up with you later. Thanks, I really appreciate the input.
 
Lewkat said:
Why do most of these questions always lead back to religion or some scientific theory? I rarely think in terms of what God intended or what a passage in the bible states when pondering what to believe or not. I turn to logic and common sense instead and research what interests me.
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The question posed in this Thread's title is "Could you willfully believe something if there was a significant reward in it"...what else can that mean but things like religious beliefs like I brought up, or scientific theories like you brought up, or the placebo effect as bobcat brought up?

And when you turn to logic and common sense and research does that make it fact or does that just aid in your belief that it's fact? And are you sure that someone reading the Bible is not using logic, common sense, and research as well? Those reading the Bible are actually commanded to research ("study thyself to be approved unto God" 2 Timothy 2:15).
 
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Lara said:

"Could you willfully believe something if there was a significant reward in it?" ​

​

Ephesians 2:8-10​

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith — and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Hebrews 11:1-3​

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

Hebrews 10:22-23​

… let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.

Psalm 119:30​

I have chosen the way of faithfulness; I have set my heart on your laws.

2 Corinthians 5:7​

For we walk by faith, not by sight.

James 2:14-17​

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

​

James 1:2-4​

Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.

1 Thessalonians 1:3​

We remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 3:17-18​

If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

Galatians 5:5-6​

For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Faith is our strength​

Our faith can motivate us to love more deeply and act more courageously than we could on our own. That faith-motivated love leads to some of the most beautiful earthly expressions of Christianity.

Hebrews 10:39​

But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

Mark 11:22-23​

“Have faith in God,” Jesus answered. “Truly I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them.

Philippians 4:13​

I can do all this through him who gives me strength.

Mark 10:27​

Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”

Timothy 2:7-8​

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day — and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

1 Corinthians 16:13​

Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be courageous; be strong.

​

1 Corinthians 13:13​

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Faith calls us to belief and action, and when we are discouraged or weary, faith reminds us that we’re not in this alone. Our God, who’s even more passionate about justice than we are, stands with us and gives us strength.
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Amen ;Amen ; Amen sister!!
 
VaughanJB said:
...Religion is a whole different thing. A lot depends on where you're born....

I also object (if I may) to your use of the word "programmed". We're not programmed...
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I agree with you, JB. I'm open and respectful to listen to those of other religions in various countries. Their beliefs may not match mine but I leave that up to God. It's not my place to judge as none of us have all the facts. But that doesn't keep me from sharing my own faith based thoughts.

I also agree that we aren't programmed. We weren't created to be robots. We were created with the ability to make our own choices. And there's a reason for that according to my faith.
 
Wot was the title phrase again? Oh I tried hard to remember and believed I could and whoops!!

Could you willfully believe something if there was a significant reward in it?​

it popped up again - yes I think a % of us could but you are leaving this open to too many intepretations : is that a lot of willfulness or moderate or little and how significant is the reward and does that matter 10% reward [not interested] 90% reward [Yes I'll take it]

this then leads into honest and where does that come from - we have it at birth or we are taught it and some maybe not etc etc - I suppose a "willful" means just that "my will is full" has been satiated ? - but significant ? well we all have different levels of dishonesty perhaps??

IMO some of the most sublime view of life and how we conduct ourselves have come from biblical quotes see above: but I would love to see an equal amount quoted from Buddhist scripts ; and the Quran ; Hindu or aetheist texts etc etc. if there are any devotees with us? Because either these are sublime and other wordly texts or the best that we as homo sapiens have been able to produce about ourselves and whatever way they are pretty good heh??

I must admit I do find this subject matter title somewhat distasteful as it it does seem to be goading us somewhat?
 
I've actually pondered this question maybe 20 years ago. At one time I thought I might be able to do that, but I don't see how. Well if I got credible evidence, that would change how I weight the validity of an idea.
 
bobcat said:
They did a study some time back that was interesting, and here is the takeaway: Now, a new study finds that even when researchers tell people that what they will receive contains no active ingredients, a placebo can produce a positive neurobiological effect.

There seems to be a mind-body connection that is baffling, but the body responds to the taking of the pill as a signal that it will have a desired effect. Strange.
Click to expand...
The "neurobiological effect" depends on you believing you were given a real medication. I doubt it works that way if the doctor told you that you are being given a placebo. It doesn't quite reach the requirement of willfully believing. You have been deceived, but are not willful.
 
This reminds me of my stupid, oldest jehovah's witness brother. He believes in this cult because he'll be saved. Forever. He told me point blank I wouldn't be but he couldn't worry about that. I haven't talked to him since I was 24 and don't care about him.

If this offended any JW's on this board, I'm sorry that I can't care.
 
Well I guess if some billionaire was going to leave all his/her money to me I could probably find lots of reasons to find them an agreeable person.

Also I think I read that when people have a decision made for them that they will find reasons why they like the choice -- if I'm remembering correctly, I think it had to do with either giving people a choice between two free art posters versus just giving them one or the other, and there might have been an additional wrinkle of giving them a choice the next week to trade their poster for the other choice and maybe some people had been allowed to choose but then told sorry they were out of that poster and those people by the next week had convinced themselves they liked the one they got enough that they didn't want to trade...something like that, gee I wish I had a memory
 
bobcat said:
Let's say you don't currently believe something, but you found out that, if you did, it would benefit you. Do you think it's possible to willfully alter your belief?

Example: Let's say you don't believe in any cosmic intelligence or consciousness, however, studies demonstrated that if you did, you could live 10 years longer.
Would you look for ways to convince yourself of the belief because of the benefit, and do you think it could be successful?
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Well, I guess there's a difference between believing and doing. So I can say I believe something but not act upon it. I can "pretend to believe" something and not act upon it. As long as I think this "belief" and it is hidden from the world (by showing no action), then it is not manifested into reality. But once someone "acts" upon that belief, (to prove they believe something), then the action needs to match the belief.

Given that, if it's a life or death situation (as in WWII) and religion was a factor, where I would need to change my religion or belief in order to survive (the reward), I would consider doing it. There would be cognitive dissonance, but I would still be alive. As long as I'm alive, there is room to change things down the road. If I didn't change my belief for the reward (survival), where would that get me?

Edited: This is all philosophical reasoning from the comfort of my chair. I think in real life it might be totally different!
 
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Anyone who wilfully believes something in order to get a reward is a hypocrite and lying to themselves. The worst thing one can do is lie to themselves

Now about that “placebo” effect. I would very much like to see that study that suggests as the OP said:

“ even when researchers tell people that what they will receive contains no active ingredients, a placebo can produce a positive neurobiological effect.”

Ridiculous !! Since the whole idea of a placebo is that the patient does not know they are given one!!

Please supply a link for that study.

Now we come to “scientific theory”… there seems to be quite a bit of confusion here OP.

The question is why is it called “scientific theory”and not “scientific fact.” In the scientific method, there is a clear distinction between facts, which can be observed and/or measured.
Theories on the other hand, are scientists' explanations and interpretations of the facts presented by the scientist conducting th study.
 
anymore the bigger tha claim of reward ... the more skeptical i become.
 

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