Countdown to the Russian invasion of Ukraine

squatting dog said:
Perhaps as a country, we've gotten better, but, March 10th slid by without a reminder that we can also be very barbaric. :(:(

Anyone sincerely outraged by what is happening in Ukraine shoud also devote themselves to kindling the memory of the mass murder that took place in 1945.

Check the pages of your daily paper and the coverage of your television news and corporate media websites for March 10 1945 and see how much (if any) time or space was accorded the mass slaughter of civilians, after the armed forces of the United States government turned the residential sections of Tokyo into a gargantuan human barbecue pit.

If “Never Again” are the watchwords in the noble campaign to prevent future holocausts, should not the incineration of Tokyo's civilian population be remembered on the date it occurred, and its lessons imparted to all the people, in our schools, Congress and the cathedrals of media?

On March 10, 1945 hundreds of thousands of napalm explosives were dropped from three hundred B-29 Superfortress bombers on the residential sections of the city of Tokyo, intentionally setting afire 16 square miles of densely packed wooden dwellings mainly inhabited by women, children and men too old to fight. In a single morning at least 100,000 people were killed, and one million were made refugees.
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But does Putin care?

(Russia lost more lives in WWll than all other military involved plus all Jewish and non-Jewish souls lost in the concentration camps combined.)
 

todalake said:
Not defending it but who started the war? Remember Pearl Harbor? The military was offered choice to surrender but they refused. Estimates to storm mainland Japan would have cost 100,000+ American lives. We can read about because of our freedom, whereas in Russia can only read what Kremlin want you to read.
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I guess it all depends on who is doing the bombing and the dying. Or better yet, which government can project a passable excuse. We say that targeting civilians is a war crime. Truman had no problem annihilating 100,000+ Japanese civilians and just as many survived with lifelong injuries. Trying to claim the moral high ground can be tenuous.
 
On Thursday afternoon, President Vladimir Putin rang the Turkish President, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and told him what Russia's precise demands were for a peace deal with Ukraine.

Chief among them is an acceptance by Ukraine that it should be neutral and should not apply to join NATO. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has already conceded this.

There are other demands in this category which mostly seem to be face-saving elements for the Russian side.

Ukraine would have to undergo a disarmament process to ensure it wasn't a threat to Russia. There would have to be protection for the Russian language in Ukraine. And there is something called de-Nazification…….

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-euro...st+type]&at_medium=custom7&at_custom2=twitter
 
mellowyellow said:
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and also

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K9pprL4.jpg
 
odessa.jpg

Elegant Odesa. As Russian warships circle off the coast, air-raid sirens wail over the cobbled streets, and Russian ground forces seek to advance west along the shores of the Black Sea, civilians in this historic, famously cosmopolitan port city are facing the same hard and urgent choices that millions of other Ukrainians have already confronted
 
mellowyellow said:
On Thursday afternoon, President Vladimir Putin rang the Turkish President, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and told him what Russia's precise demands were for a peace deal with Ukraine.

Chief among them is an acceptance by Ukraine that it should be neutral and should not apply to join NATO. Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky has already conceded this.

There are other demands in this category which mostly seem to be face-saving elements for the Russian side.

Ukraine would have to undergo a disarmament process to ensure it wasn't a threat to Russia. There would have to be protection for the Russian language in Ukraine. And there is something called de-Nazification…….

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60785754?xtor=AL-72-[partner]-[bbc.news.twitter]-[headline]-[news]-[bizdev]-[isapi]&at_custom3=@BBCWorld&at_custom4=CFBB1C34-A63A-11EC-8856-DD894744363C&at_campaign=64&at_custom1=[post+type]&at_medium=custom7&at_custom2=twitter
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I think it is given that Ukraine wouldn't attack Russia. But Russia wants Ukraine to demilitarize to what end? So that they will be easier to invade the next time. Promises and agreements aren't worth anything if they don't want to abide by them. Ask the American Indians how some of their treaties worked out.

In 1994, Ukraine, Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. signed the Budapest Memorandum. The other three nations made six commitments to Ukraine: to respect Ukraine’s independence and existing borders, to refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine except for in defense, to refrain from economic coercion to gain advantages from Ukraine, to provide assistance to Ukraine if it becomes victim to an act of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used, to not use their nuclear weapons on Ukraine or other non-nuclear-weapon states and to consult one another in the event these commitments are put into question.
Ukraine, in return, committed to eliminating “all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time.”

How did that work out?
 
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todalake said:
I think it is given that Ukraine wouldn't attack Russia. But Russia wants Ukraine to demilitarize to what end? So that they will be easier to invade the next time. Promises and agreements aren't worth anything if they don't want to abide by them. Ask the American Indians how some of their treaties worked out.

In 1994, Ukraine, Russia, the U.S. and the U.K. signed the Budapest Memorandum. The other three nations made six commitments to Ukraine: to respect Ukraine’s independence and existing borders, to refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine except for in defense, to refrain from economic coercion to gain advantages from Ukraine, to provide assistance to Ukraine if it becomes victim to an act of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used, to not use their nuclear weapons on Ukraine or other non-nuclear-weapon states and to consult one another in the event these commitments are put into question.
Ukraine, in return, committed to eliminating “all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time.”

How did that work out?
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Nothing will ever work out if you have a madman not obeying the rules....
 
Vladimir Putin has today given a tub-thumping speech to tens of thousands of banner-waving Russians in an attempt to drum up support for his stalled invasion of Ukraine, as he peddled debunked claims about why the war started and shilled a false narrative of Russia's battlefield 'success'.

The despot took to the stage at Moscow's Luzhniki World Cup stadium dressed in a £10,000 Loro Piana jacket - despite his country's economy crumbling under the weight of Western sanctions - to address a crowd waving Russian national flags and banners marked with the letter 'Z', which has become a potent symbol of the invasion.

Putin, who called the rally to mark the anniversary of the last time he attacked Ukraine to annex the Crimea region, spoke of sharing a 'common destiny' with Crimeans, of 'de-Nazifying' the region in 2014, and of the 'bravery' of soldiers currently fighting in Ukraine. He was met with chants of 'Russia, Russia, Russia.'

Speaking in front of banners that read 'For a world without Nazism' and 'For Russia' - with the letter 'Z' in each picked out in bold - he said: 'Sevastopol [capital of Crimea] did the right thing when they put up a barrier to neo-Nazis and radicals, which is already happening on other territories.

'[The] people of Donbass also disagreed with this, and straight-away they organised military operations against [the Nazis]. They were surrounded and shelled by guns, the Ukrainians sent airstrikes against them. This is called genocide,' he said, repeating his widely-debunked justification for attacking. 'It is to save people from this suffering and genocide that we launched our military operation.'

Putin then praised troops taking part in his 'special operation', who he said are fighting for the 'universal values' of all Russians. The words 'we don't abandon our own' were emblazoned on screens around the stadium. Paraphrasing the Bible, he said: 'There is no greater love than giving up one's soul for one's friends.

'The best confirmation of this is how our guys are fighting during this operation, shoulder to shoulder, helping each other. When it is necessary, they cover each-other as if it was their own brother from bullets. We haven't had such unity in a long time,' he said.

The event included patriotic songs, including a performance of 'Made in the U.S.S.R.,' with the opening lines 'Ukraine and Crimea, Belarus and Moldova, it's all my country.' Moscow police said 200,000 people had attended the event - though the stadium's capacity is only 81,000.

Some Russians spoke to journalists at the event to say they were government workers who had been pressured to come. Others were students who were told they could have a day off from lectures if they attended 'a concert'.

Click here to see this lunatic giving a speech to the people on how he is saving the Ukrainian people from suffering and Genocide

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-rally-thousands-Z-flag-waving-Russians.html
 
Ukraine's plead for help parallels some of WWII. British wanted help and we supplied equipment but not direct military forces(Lend-Lease Act). We didn't get involved militarily until Pearl Harbor. Will the same thing happen here with NATO? Will Russia cross a line where we will be forced to act? War games indicate if Russia would use a small(tactical) nuclear bomb that it would quickly spiral out of control and civilization as we know would be gone. Have a good night's sleep.
 
todalake said:
Ukraine's plead for help parallels some of WWII. British wanted help and we supplied equipment but not direct military forces(Lend-Lease Act). We didn't get involved militarily until Pearl Harbor. Will the same thing happen here with NATO? Will Russia cross a line where we will be forced to act? War games indicate if Russia would use a small(tactical) nuclear bomb that it would quickly spiral out of control and civilization as we know would be gone. Have a good night's sleep.
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The US didn't get involved in WWll because, after its involvement in WWl, the gov't hoped to return to being a neutral country. Woodrow Wilson proclaimed the US a neutral country, “impartial in thought as well as in action”, until several U.S. ships traveling to Britain were damaged or sunk by German mines in 1914 and Americans were killed. And the 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor dashed any hopes of a neutral America for good.

It's possible that US military support of Ukraine won't include military troop involvement unless Russia harms US people or property, or it's use of nuclear weapons becomes clearly imminent...and maybe only if they're nuclear weapons of "massive destruction".

I don't know much about US and free-world or global rules of engagement, conventions, agreements and etc. But there are rules....not that we haven't broken any in the past. I'm pretty sure we have.
 
hollydolly said:
Vladimir Putin has today given a tub-thumping speech to tens of thousands of banner-waving Russians in an attempt to drum up support for his stalled invasion of Ukraine, as he peddled debunked claims about why the war started and shilled a false narrative of Russia's battlefield 'success'.

The despot took to the stage at Moscow's Luzhniki World Cup stadium dressed in a £10,000 Loro Piana jacket - despite his country's economy crumbling under the weight of Western sanctions - to address a crowd waving Russian national flags and banners marked with the letter 'Z', which has become a potent symbol of the invasion.

Putin, who called the rally to mark the anniversary of the last time he attacked Ukraine to annex the Crimea region, spoke of sharing a 'common destiny' with Crimeans, of 'de-Nazifying' the region in 2014, and of the 'bravery' of soldiers currently fighting in Ukraine. He was met with chants of 'Russia, Russia, Russia.'

Speaking in front of banners that read 'For a world without Nazism' and 'For Russia' - with the letter 'Z' in each picked out in bold - he said: 'Sevastopol [capital of Crimea] did the right thing when they put up a barrier to neo-Nazis and radicals, which is already happening on other territories.

'[The] people of Donbass also disagreed with this, and straight-away they organised military operations against [the Nazis]. They were surrounded and shelled by guns, the Ukrainians sent airstrikes against them. This is called genocide,' he said, repeating his widely-debunked justification for attacking. 'It is to save people from this suffering and genocide that we launched our military operation.'

Putin then praised troops taking part in his 'special operation', who he said are fighting for the 'universal values' of all Russians. The words 'we don't abandon our own' were emblazoned on screens around the stadium. Paraphrasing the Bible, he said: 'There is no greater love than giving up one's soul for one's friends.

'The best confirmation of this is how our guys are fighting during this operation, shoulder to shoulder, helping each other. When it is necessary, they cover each-other as if it was their own brother from bullets. We haven't had such unity in a long time,' he said.

The event included patriotic songs, including a performance of 'Made in the U.S.S.R.,' with the opening lines 'Ukraine and Crimea, Belarus and Moldova, it's all my country.' Moscow police said 200,000 people had attended the event - though the stadium's capacity is only 81,000.

Some Russians spoke to journalists at the event to say they were government workers who had been pressured to come. Others were students who were told they could have a day off from lectures if they attended 'a concert'.

Click here to see this lunatic giving a speech to the people on how he is saving the Ukrainian people from suffering and Genocide

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...e-rally-thousands-Z-flag-waving-Russians.html
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Bottom video is an interesting attempt at interviews afterwards. Attendees literally turn their backs on the guy.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1504910577889538048
 
This will hurt Putin so bad

putin.jpg
FILE - Russian President Vladimir Putinapplauds beside FIFA President Gianni Infantino at the end of the 2018 World Cup final soccer match between France and Croatia in the Luzhniki Stadium in Moscow, Russia, July 15, 2018. Martin Meissner/AP

FIFA said the Court of Arbitration for Sport dismissed the Russian soccer federation’s bid for an urgent interim ruling to freeze the ban pending a full appeal, which could come within weeks.

The CAS decision means Russia will not be able to play Poland in World Cup qualifying on Thursday.
 
A Russian-European mission to land a rover on Mars has been suspended due to the Kremlin’s invasion of Ukraine, the European Space Agency (ESA) announced on Thursday, as Moscow said it regretted the “bitter” decision. The ExoMars mission had been set to use a Russian launcher later this year to send a European rover to drill for signs of life on the Red Planet.

Dmitry Rogozin, the head of Russia’s space agency Roscosmos, called the decision a “shame”. “This is a very bitter decision for all the enthusiasts of space,” Mr Rogozin said on Telegram. He said the project “would lose several years” but that Russia would “conduct this research expedition on our own”. He added it would be done “without any ‘European friends’ with their tails tucked because of American shouting.”
 
Pepper said:
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"Unicef, the UN children's fund, put the number of [Iraqi] children who died as a result of sanctions at anything up to 500,000."

"There was a chilling message from Madeleine Albright, American ambassador to the UN under President Clinton, when challenged in a news programme.

How did she justify a programme which had killed more children than Hiroshima? 'I think this is a very hard choice, but the price - we think the price is worth it,' she said."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1031648/Its-poor-suffer-sanctions.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/27/magazine/were-sanctions-right.html

"A U.N. report found that, from 1991 to late 1995, as many as 576,000 Iraqi children died because of the harsh economic sanctions, of which Albright was a staunch supporter."

https://www.salon.com/2016/05/11/co...ght_who_defended_deaths_of_500000_iraqi_kids/
 
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