Lara
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- Mid-Atlantic Coast
You're right. I don't have a clue what I did. But thank you Pepper. You say you're a Christian?
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Creativity of Belief: The question of belief is not what but why do we beleive as we do?
- Thread starter Mr. Ed
- Start date
I grew up Catholic, even went to Catholic grade school. Followed all the rules as a young adult. As I got older I started to realize how ridiculous organized religion was ( to me at least). It's just a way to control people.
Even going back to the Middle Ages when the King and Cardinals and Bisbops lived like well, kings, as the peasants starved. How to keep the peasants from revolting? Make up stories of a wonderful afterlife if you just behave now.
God supposedly showed himself often way back in biblical times, why not now? One worldwide appearance in the sky and all wars end, we have world peace an end to poverty, etc. Oh, you have to have faith. Isn't that what the used car salesman says? "Trust me, this car was only driven by a little old lady to church on Sunday. How do you get people to believe unbelievable things? Tell them it's a test of their faith.
I'm not saying there is no God just that God is nothing like anything in organized religion. The saying is God created man in his image but realistically Man created God in HIS image.
The one thing that keeps me open to some sort of diety is the idea of where did it all start? I believe in the Big Bang but still what created what was there before the Big Bang?
This is all just my current beliefs and hopefully no insult to any believers. If it brings you comfort, God bless you (no pun intended).
Even going back to the Middle Ages when the King and Cardinals and Bisbops lived like well, kings, as the peasants starved. How to keep the peasants from revolting? Make up stories of a wonderful afterlife if you just behave now.
God supposedly showed himself often way back in biblical times, why not now? One worldwide appearance in the sky and all wars end, we have world peace an end to poverty, etc. Oh, you have to have faith. Isn't that what the used car salesman says? "Trust me, this car was only driven by a little old lady to church on Sunday. How do you get people to believe unbelievable things? Tell them it's a test of their faith.
I'm not saying there is no God just that God is nothing like anything in organized religion. The saying is God created man in his image but realistically Man created God in HIS image.
The one thing that keeps me open to some sort of diety is the idea of where did it all start? I believe in the Big Bang but still what created what was there before the Big Bang?
This is all just my current beliefs and hopefully no insult to any believers. If it brings you comfort, God bless you (no pun intended).
Lara
Friend of the Arts
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- Mid-Atlantic Coast
What created the Big Bang? What about how does a big bang of mass confusion create intelligent design with such precision? Actually, I do believe the Big Bang was possible but not responsible for all of creation. And it's also possible God created the Big Bang.
Irwin
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- Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
The Romans killed Jesus, yet Christians blame the Jews.
Shero
Senior Member
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- Transient in the Land of Oz
Okay! have read enough! my lips are no longr sealed!
Lara, the scriptures and you have it all wrong.
The Jews had nothing to do with the death of Jesus.
The Romans killed Jesus.
If it were not for the Jews, Christianity would not have started.
God gave Moses the Ten Commandments ...to the tribes of Israel.
How in the name of Heaven can anyone study the New Testament without the Old Testament???....that is where it all started.
Jesus, never stopped being a Jew. He was Jewish, he lived a Jewish life until his death.
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Shero
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- Transient in the Land of Oz
No one knows who the Messiah is or will be. No One!!! Show me the proof of Jesus being the Messiah. I am Catholic. More Bible taught than you Lara and I want proof.
I believe no one will be coming to save lives. We have to save our own lives. By doing good, by caring for our fellow humans, by eradicating poverty, that is what we are here to do.
Shero
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- Transient in the Land of Oz
No, you did not write the Bible. Dozens of ancients did and like the propagandist media of today, most got it wrong.
Yes, a lot of wisdom exists in the Bible, many things I live by daily, but I do not wear rose colored glasses. I take it for what it is.
I also do not wear sheep's clothing!
Shero
Senior Member
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- Transient in the Land of Oz
Both "Heaven" and "Hell" are both here on Earth. Not somewhere in in the never never. Do good and that is heaven - do bad and that is hell.
Knight
Well-known Member
The bible seems to be the focus of belief or not believing relative to the stories in the bible. Blind faith depends on who is posting their opinion.
To follow the ops thread of creativity I decided to look for an explanation of who wrote the bible. If the info written at this site is accurate the bible was a work of literature that took about a thousand years to write. Based mostly on what the various authors imagined.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/who-wrote-the-bible
Old testament new testament it comes down to a lot of stories trying to explain myths & the unknown at the time written.
I think it would be exciting to find & take a laptop to visit several uncontacted tribes that live in complete isolation, without having any contact with their neighbors and the rest of the world. Currently, it is believed that there are around 100 uncontacted tribes left in the world. The exact number is not known—the majority of those tribes living in the Amazonian rainforest. The most secluded of them all is the Sentinelese, a tribe that lives on the North Sentinel Island near India.
I would show videos of Startrek Voyager & claim I am God & those strange beings are all my creation. Why would they doubt me because I have visual proof that others are under my control. Their belief in something they can see opposed to stories that defy logic might just work to my benefit. I could pass a collection plate to collect any gold or other precious items they would give to me.
To follow the ops thread of creativity I decided to look for an explanation of who wrote the bible. If the info written at this site is accurate the bible was a work of literature that took about a thousand years to write. Based mostly on what the various authors imagined.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/who-wrote-the-bible
Old testament new testament it comes down to a lot of stories trying to explain myths & the unknown at the time written.
I think it would be exciting to find & take a laptop to visit several uncontacted tribes that live in complete isolation, without having any contact with their neighbors and the rest of the world. Currently, it is believed that there are around 100 uncontacted tribes left in the world. The exact number is not known—the majority of those tribes living in the Amazonian rainforest. The most secluded of them all is the Sentinelese, a tribe that lives on the North Sentinel Island near India.
I would show videos of Startrek Voyager & claim I am God & those strange beings are all my creation. Why would they doubt me because I have visual proof that others are under my control. Their belief in something they can see opposed to stories that defy logic might just work to my benefit. I could pass a collection plate to collect any gold or other precious items they would give to me.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
Oh, hmm, I could have sworn JC was talking about the Romans, the ones who pounded the nails in his hands and feet. But, then, I am not a Bible expert and I was not there so I really don’t know who JC meant or who exactly did the nailing. Plus he couldn’t point out anyone since, you know, his hands were nailed to the cross.
From Wikipedia:
The crucifixion of Jesus occurred in 1st-century Judea, most likely in either AD 30 or AD 33. Jesus' crucifixion is described in the four canonical gospels, referred to in the New Testament epistles, attested to by other ancient sources, and is considered an established historical event by many,[1] although there is no consensus among historians on the exact details.[2][3][4]
According to the canonical gospels, Jesus was arrested and tried by the Sanhedrin, and then sentenced by Pontius Pilate to be scourged, and finally crucified by the Romans.[5][6][7][8] It portrays his death as a sacrifice for humanity's sins.
The crucifixion of Jesus occurred in 1st-century Judea, most likely in either AD 30 or AD 33. Jesus' crucifixion is described in the four canonical gospels, referred to in the New Testament epistles, attested to by other ancient sources, and is considered an established historical event by many,[1] although there is no consensus among historians on the exact details.[2][3][4]
According to the canonical gospels, Jesus was arrested and tried by the Sanhedrin, and then sentenced by Pontius Pilate to be scourged, and finally crucified by the Romans.[5][6][7][8] It portrays his death as a sacrifice for humanity's sins.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
I thought the Romans did the crucifying. I swear in the movie I watched it was the Romans, and were not the Romans from Italy? Shouldn’t we blame the Italians? Or should we just let it go since JC agreed to his crucifixion in order to save mankind?
It seems to me that agreeing to being crucified negates who does the crucifying. Had JC not been crucified, he could not have ascended to Heaven. Had he not ascended to Heaven, he would not be worshiped as the son of God, and christianity would not have happened.
It was God’s plan. The whole thing was God‘s plan. If you need to blame someone, for the crucification, blame GOD, the father. He could have stopped it at any time. How is it that this is not understood?
@Lara— a little clarification for you
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
Who are you to tell anyone that they “have grossly misunderstood the scripture and overreacted”. “Judge not less you be judged”. As for JC loving the Jewish people, JC was Jewish as I recall.
Quite the confab
I've spiritually been where most you fine folks here are, presently
For a very long time
Mostly agnostic
I just so wish folks would listen to that still small voice (while it's there)
.....and study the scriptures.....with a prayerful mind
It has changed me
No easy feat
And if it can change me, it can change anyone
I have no more comments for this thread
My prayers are with you all, my brothers, my sisters
I've spiritually been where most you fine folks here are, presently
For a very long time
Mostly agnostic
I just so wish folks would listen to that still small voice (while it's there)
.....and study the scriptures.....with a prayerful mind
It has changed me
No easy feat
And if it can change me, it can change anyone
I have no more comments for this thread
My prayers are with you all, my brothers, my sisters
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
They would kill you before you got close.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
Lara
Friend of the Arts
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic Coast
We're all in agreement that Jesus was always Jewish. No argument there.
Regarding "Who killed Jesus?"...I've done a little research and the answer has many facets.
According to the gospel accounts, Jewish authorities played a major role in Roman Judea as they charged and tried Jesus with blasphemy and sought his execution, but lacked the authority to have Jesus put to death (John 18:31), so they brought Jesus to Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor of the province, who authorized Jesus' execution (John 19:16).
Pontius Pilate tried to release Jesus but the Jewish crowd cried out "Crucify Him!", "Crucify Him!". The Roman soldiers literally drove the nails into Jesus but many were a part of Jesus death...Jews, Romans, God, You, Me, and ultimately Jesus willingly laid down His own life for the forgiveness of our sins for our salvation.
In a sense, it was the sinners, us, who nailed Jesus to the cross. It was God's plan for Jesus to suffer the punishment for our sins so we could be forgiven and receive Salvation.
`
Regarding "Who killed Jesus?"...I've done a little research and the answer has many facets.
According to the gospel accounts, Jewish authorities played a major role in Roman Judea as they charged and tried Jesus with blasphemy and sought his execution, but lacked the authority to have Jesus put to death (John 18:31), so they brought Jesus to Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor of the province, who authorized Jesus' execution (John 19:16).
Pontius Pilate tried to release Jesus but the Jewish crowd cried out "Crucify Him!", "Crucify Him!". The Roman soldiers literally drove the nails into Jesus but many were a part of Jesus death...Jews, Romans, God, You, Me, and ultimately Jesus willingly laid down His own life for the forgiveness of our sins for our salvation.
In a sense, it was the sinners, us, who nailed Jesus to the cross. It was God's plan for Jesus to suffer the punishment for our sins so we could be forgiven and receive Salvation.
`
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Knight
Well-known Member
No they wouldn't, I would have a plan for them.
Shero
Senior Member
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- Transient in the Land of Oz
Jesus was crucified as a Jewish victim of Roman violence. All written authorities agree. Pontius Pilate, condemned him to death and had him tortured and executed by Gentile Roman soldiers. Jesus was one of thousands of Jews crucified by the Romans.
The New Testament testifies to this fact but there was also some Jewish involvement, not from the masses, but from a few high ranking Jewish authorities who owed their position and power to the Romans.
They conspired with the Gentile leaders to have Jesus put to death because of jealousy. They saw Jesus popularity as a threat to their position.
I do not understand what you mean Lara when you say this and I quote
“The Roman soldiers literally drove the nails into Jesus but many were a part of Jesus death...Jews, Romans, God, You, Me”
How am I or anyone today is part of the death of a man who died thousands of years ago?
Shero
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- Transient in the Land of Oz
That "still small voice" inside is called our conscience, which existed eons before the Bible was ever writter
The Voice
There is a voice inside of you
That whispers all day long,
“I feel this is right for me,
I know that this is wrong.”
No teacher, preacher, parent, friend
Or wise man can decide
What’s right for you–just listen to
The voice that speaks inside
~Shel Silverstein
,
Lara
Friend of the Arts
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- Mid-Atlantic Coast
This is my Faith-based answer. You asked.
I'm not pushing it on anyone. We were all created to make our own choices.
That's how God wants it.
You think Hell is here now on earth if you're bad, and Heaven if you're good?
I call that natural consequences or karma or Satan's work...no comparison.
Life is really good for me so you're saying I'm really good? Thank you but no, I'm a sinner too...in need of Jesus, our Savior
You asked how is anyone responsible for Jesus death long ago? I'll copy and paste my answer post#167 for you.
Jewish authorities....played a major role in Roman Judea as they charged and tried Jesus with blasphemy and sought his execution, but lacked the authority to have Jesus put to death (John 18:31), so they brought Jesus to Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor of the province, who authorized Jesus' execution. Pontius Pilate tried to free Jesus but the Jewish crowds yelled"Crucify Him!" "Crucify Him!"
Romans...drove the nails into Jesus which was their typical style of crucifixion
God...It was God's plan for Jesus to suffer the punishment for our sins so we could be forgiven and receive Salvation
Jesus...willingly gave His life for our sins
All people...In a sense, it was the sinners, Us, who nailed Jesus to the cross. Mel Gibson made a movie where, in the end, he himself drove the nails into Jesus as a reminder to us all that it was for our sins that Jesus died.
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Shero
Senior Member
- Location
- Transient in the Land of Oz
You are basing your argument on a Mel Gibson movie? Mon Dieu!
Lara, we both have Christian beliefs, that is true, but I must respectfully suggest that you do some more work on analysing the Bible. You will find it right there in the Bible that both Heaven and Hell are the states of mind, and both exist within us.
If you read the Bible carefully, you will see so many phrases that are related to this. "Heaven is the state of mind" "Heaven is within you, Heaven is within your heart." (Luke 17:21)
.
Tommy
Senior Member
- Location
- New Hampshire
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
The Jews did not kill Jesus. He himself was a Jew, probably a charismatic rabbi with a devoted following. He was, of course, rejected by conventional Judaism, but they did not kill him. Crucifixion was a Roman form of torture and execution.
It is truly astonishing, in this day and age, to see the level of ignorance that has been pounded into the heads of some people. They were taught as children that the Jews killed Jesus, so even now, in their old age when they should know better, they are still repeating that poison. Their fear (thinly disguised as "love") guides their entire world view.
I'd recommend a visit to the Holocaust Museum, but it probably would do no good. Their smug self-satisfaction would override anything that the truth might tell them. They prefer to keep believing the cruel, ignorant lies of their childhood.
Can we find the truth in the Bible? I tend to agree with Bill Maher, who said:
When those myths were created, when the Bible was written, man didn't know what an atom or a germ was, or where the sun went at night, or why women got pregnant. They needed stories to answer the questions.
It is truly astonishing, in this day and age, to see the level of ignorance that has been pounded into the heads of some people. They were taught as children that the Jews killed Jesus, so even now, in their old age when they should know better, they are still repeating that poison. Their fear (thinly disguised as "love") guides their entire world view.
I'd recommend a visit to the Holocaust Museum, but it probably would do no good. Their smug self-satisfaction would override anything that the truth might tell them. They prefer to keep believing the cruel, ignorant lies of their childhood.
Can we find the truth in the Bible? I tend to agree with Bill Maher, who said:
When those myths were created, when the Bible was written, man didn't know what an atom or a germ was, or where the sun went at night, or why women got pregnant. They needed stories to answer the questions.
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
What? No, no, and no. The crowd was offered a choice between freeing JC and a popular criminal, forget his name will try and look it up, and the crowd chose to free the criminal and crucify JC. Saw the movie several times so I am sure this is correct. Why you would have to “research” such a well known story is odd and puzzling.
Anyway. I was NOT a party to the death of JC. If it makes you feel good to claim a portion of responsibility for his death, well, gee, gosh, golly. You might want to see a therapist, soon. (Just a well meant suggestion). Seriously, such statements are over the top. Sinners did not nail JC to the cross. The Romans nailed him to the cross.
I am sure they were forgiven and have a nice home, with a view, in Heaven. As they completed and were a part of the plan of the man in charge of this spectacle, you know, GOD, the great I AM. Were those Romans sinners? I do not know, and neither do you @Lara. But since they were a big part of God’s plan, I doubt it. In any event, God judges, not you.
You have lost credibility with me on this reply of yours. I am sure it doesn’t matter to you, still, your reply is worrisome.
BARABBAS was chosen by the crowd to live, finally remembered the name.
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