Creativity of Belief: The question of belief is not what but why do we beleive as we do?

Shero said:
You are basing your argument on a Mel Gibson movie? Mon Dieu!

Lara, we both have Christian beliefs, that is true, but I must respectfully suggest that you do some more work on analysing the Bible. You will find it right there in the Bible that both Heaven and Hell are the states of mind, and both exist within us.

If you read the Bible carefully, you will see so many phrases that are related to this. "Heaven is the state of mind" "Heaven is within you, Heaven is within your heart." (Luke 17:21)
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You are way off base. Of course I didn't base my post (not argument) on a Mel Gibson Movie. That was an example for you because you were having a hard time comprehending.

Yes, I am always studying the Bible "to find myself approved of God".

You don't understand what The Kingdom of God is. It is the opposite of Hell. In order to enter the Kingdom of God one must repent. It also is not a "state of mind". Luke 17:21 says "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Nowhere does that say "Heaven is a state of mind within you" as you posted.

You continue to post misinterpretations that confuse members here and you have a bullying disposition that is unkind so please put me on ignore and leave me alone. Thank you.

Your bully partner Aneeda is also off base. I don't have the time nor desire to give either of you my valuable time.
 

Lara said:
You're right. I don't have a clue what I did. But thank you Pepper. You say you're a Christian?
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The religion of @Pepper, or anyone else on SF, is not relevant to the discussion. I don’t remember you mentioning what religion you are @Lara. But you did say you have not attended church in 20 years. I think.
 
Lara said:
You are way off base. Of course I didn't base my post (not argument) on a Mel Gibson Movie. That was an example for you because you were having a hard time comprehending.

Yes, I am always studying the Bible "to find myself approved of God".

You don't understand what The Kingdom of God is. It is the opposite of Hell. In order to enter the Kingdom of God one must repent. It also is not a "state of mind". Luke 17:21 says "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Nowhere does that say "Heaven is a state of mind within you" as you posted.

You continue to post misinterpretations that confuses members here and you have a bullying disposition that is unkind so please put me on ignore and leave me alone. Thank you.
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Well, the Mel Gibson movie was a very good movie.
 

Lara said:
You are way off base. Of course I didn't base my post (not argument) on a Mel Gibson Movie. That was an example for you because you were having a hard time comprehending.

Yes, I am always studying the Bible "to find myself approved of God".

You don't understand what The Kingdom of God is. It is the opposite of Hell. In order to enter the Kingdom of God one must repent. It also is not a "state of mind". Luke 17:21 says "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Nowhere does that say "Heaven is a state of mind within you" as you posted.

You continue to post misinterpretations that confuse members here and you have a bullying disposition that is unkind so please put me on ignore and leave me alone. Thank you.

Your bully partner Aneeda is also off base. I don't have the time nor desire to give either of you my valuable time.
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😂😂😂. When people are not able to control what others say; those people become upset when others point out that they are wrong; the claws come out and the name calling begins. Neither I or @Pepper are bullies. We are engaged in a discussion.

Calling me a name is fine, and so very CHRISTIAN of you. Oh, wait, maybe not. CHRISTIANS do not call each other names, but, wait, a sinner would do that and then confess the wrong. YOU have confessed that you are a sinner so, ok, go ahead call me a name. You can confess later.

I’ve been called worst by better people and, I might add, in person. Doesn’t bother me in the least.
 
Back to the topic
The question of belief is not what but why do we beleive as we do?

For me discussing who killed Jesus doesn't seem to answer that question. Whether or not the old testament or new testament verses answer the question I guess is up to each individual. For me the bible as a book of stories used to interest me when I was very young.

As I got older & began to question who the us was in creation, where prehistoric mankind fit in creation, how a variety of humans became possible from one DNA source. Even where that omnipotent super being billions of years old that supposedly created heaven & earth resides? I wonder if blind faith doesn't question out of fear, indoctrination or both.

It must be comforting to think when death occurs a sentient essence from the body will travel somewhere to reunite with family & friends good enough to be where. The popular idea is they will join the creator. Where the creator is can't be in our known universe since creation would have to be outside what is created.

To answer the question of belief is not what but why do we beleive as we do?


I believe in evolution since I can see progression in life forms of all kinds adapting to changing conditions on our planet.
 
I could respond to several posts but will not because the thread has long since vectored out in too many off topic directions, so members have lost focus on what others are talking about. It does not help when someone conveniently uses a religious thread to bring up and complain about all manner of related reasons they don't like religion or gods especially if that is certain to provoke in kind refuting responses that then takes on a life of its own detracting from the narrower intent of a thread discussion.

In college debate 101 classes, a classic tactic to gain control over the direction and focus of informal discussions is to purposely bring up something else one's opponent is sure to try to be capable of defending or make an ad hominem personal attack. A wise person instead smilingly points to their motives, that whatever is off topic, and not be baited so.

Will suggest re-reading on thread page 1 my post #8, on page 2 my post #38, page 3 post #7.
 
Lara said:
You are way off base. Of course I didn't base my post (not argument) on a Mel Gibson Movie. That was an example for you because you were having a hard time comprehending.

Yes, I am always studying the Bible "to find myself approved of God".

You don't understand what The Kingdom of God is. It is the opposite of Hell. In order to enter the Kingdom of God one must repent. It also is not a "state of mind". Luke 17:21 says "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." Nowhere does that say "Heaven is a state of mind within you" as you posted.

You continue to post misinterpretations that confuse members here and you have a bullying disposition that is unkind so please put me on ignore and leave me alone. Thank you.

Your bully partner Aneeda is also off base. I don't have the time nor desire to give either of you my valuable time.
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🍃🍂🍃🍂

Lara …calling someone names because you cannot handle the truth is …very immature.

Peace be with you.

🍃🍂🍃🍂
 
I'm getting tired of this. Nobody here is going to change their mind, well, I'm not.
I do not have any real answers, but unlike my parents who had an unquestioning blind obedience (more so than blind belief), I have asked questions. In the end, I do not find "life, the universe and everything" compatible with the idea of a benevolent 'god'.
Amen.
 
Capt Lightning said:
I'm getting tired of this. Nobody here is going to change their mind, well, I'm not.
I do not have any real answers, but unlike my parents who had an unquestioning blind obedience (more so than blind belief), I have asked questions. In the end, I do not find "life, the universe and everything" compatible with the idea of a benevolent 'god'.
Amen.
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If you are really tired Cap'n, why add another post 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️
 
@Mr. Ed Someone I admired once said to me that why questions cannot be answered because they are too complex. But they are real fun to ponder on. :) Just have fun with it. What you believe in can vary from make believe to physical stuff. The physical stuff we can indentify rather easily. The fairy tales, not so much. I think it is cool to not ask any questions in myself that bring about suffering. Physical suffering is about all I can take. :)
 
It is not my role to define the God you believe in or to convince you to believe anything that is not your own belief. I enjoy a stimulating ponderous discussion because thoughts such as these have no determining answers or explanations, yet they bring joy and satisfaction to my aging database.
 
Mr. Ed said:
It is not my role to define the God you believe in or to convince you to believe anything that is not your own belief. I enjoy a stimulating ponderous discussion because thoughts such as these have no determining answers or explanations, yet they bring joy and satisfaction to my aging database.
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Yes, I also enjoy "free association" to unanswerable existential mysteries. It can and often leads to some very interesting insights. :)
 
🌺🌸🌺🌸

You say one cannot be oversensitive in religious discussion. I was not, but you were: Anyway, when I say this, hope you will not be “over sensitive” Lara dear.

  • The Bible was not written by God. It was written by dozens of scribes over a period of several hundred years.
  • The Bible is an historical work of art, not something to pin your entire life on.
  • Jesus never wrote a word either. Not ever. No evidence whatsoever of that.
  • Did Jesus ascend into “Heaven”? Well, he can’t ascend twice:
  • In Luke 24:13,33,50 says that Jesus ascended bodily to heaven on the evening of his resurrection, then… in Acts 1:3,9 says that he actually remained on earth for forty days and then ascended bodily to heaven.
  • I wish these scribes would make up their minds! Believe what you will, and I will stick to the facts.
  • Bon soir, have a good day for I am off to sweet slumber. Shalom
🌺🌸🌺🌸
 
Labeling me a racist for using the word Jews when discussing how the Jews accused and tried Jesus and then took Him to the Romans yelling at them to "Crucify Him!" since they weren't allowed to" is not wrong. Saying, "the Jewish accused, tried Jesus, and " would be grammatically incorrect".
 
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Shero said:
🌺🌸🌺🌸

You say one cannot be oversensitive in religious discussion. I was not, but you were: Anyway, when I say this, hope you will not be “over sensitive” Lara dear.

  • The Bible was not written by God. It was written by dozens of scribes over a period of several hundred years.
  • The Bible is an historical work of art, not something to pin your entire life on.
  • Jesus never wrote a word either. Not ever. No evidence whatsoever of that.
  • Did Jesus ascend into “Heaven”? Well, he can’t ascend twice:
  • In Luke 24:13,33,50 says that Jesus ascended bodily to heaven on the evening of his resurrection, then… in Acts 1:3,9 says that he actually remained on earth for forty days and then ascended bodily to heaven.
  • I wish these scribes would make up their minds! Believe what you will, and I will stick to the facts.
  • Bon soir, have a good day for I am off to sweet slumber. Shalom
🌺🌸🌺🌸
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I do disagree on one issue.

I would think that JC could ascend to heaven as many times as he wanted, and return to earth as many times as he wished-both in body and in spirit. Like climbing a stair case, you can go up and down as much as you want. The old if a tree falls in the forest does it still make a sound thing. Just because the passage was not witnessed or mentioned -does not mean it did not happen.

The fact that the Bible only mentions two ascensions is important. We both agree on what the Bible is.
 
Lara said:
Oh yes, thank you for the reminder Shero. You, Pepper, and Aneeda did bully together on the internet playground.
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Oh, gosh, thanks I thought you had forgotten about me. I was crushed, well, not crushed, hmm, IGNORED, yes, that’s the word ignored. I felt ignored. You asked me, in a PM, to put you on ignore. And I refused. I actually like discussions with you. Then, again, you might follow your own request so you will no longer FEEL like you are being bullied.

I am sorry you feel bullied when someone disagrees with you and when you are “proven” wrong. But @Shero and I are not bullies. We do like a lively discussion; but not a prejudice one. It was the Romans that nailed JC to the cross and killed him. Even your Bible agrees with this.

Your insistence on blaming the Jewish people is annoying, historically wrong, and insulting. Yet, I have not accused you of anything, or called you names. Think on that a while @Lara
 
Aneeda72 said:
We both agree on what the Bible is.
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Oh not necessarily.
Although there have been endless translations and versions, some examples show where some are really at.

The longstanding King James, for example, says: 13 Take care of God’s needy people.
Evidently, that wasn't sufficient for some, as newer 'Christian' versions say: 13 Share your belongings with your needy fellow Christians, and 13 Share what you have with Christian brothers who are in need.

On a side note (not specifically connected to your post and not directed to you)- as a cult survivor (not a religious cult), I can spot manipulations such as others have made in numerous posts- the 'pat' expressions, one-upsmanship, etc., which leads me to end my involvement in these types of threads.
 
Aneeda72 said:
Oh, gosh, thanks I thought you had forgotten about me. I was crushed, well, not crushed, hmm, IGNORED, yes, that’s the word ignored. I felt ignored. You asked me, in a PM, to put you on ignore. And I refused. I actually like discussions with you. Then, again, you might follow your own request so you will no longer FEEL like you are being bullied.

I am sorry you feel bullied when someone disagrees with you and when you are “proven” wrong. But @Shero and I are not bullies. We do like a lively discussion; but not a prejudice one. It was the Romans that nailed JC to the cross and killed him. Even your Bible agrees with this.

Your insistence on blaming the Jewish people is annoying, historically wrong, and insulting. Yet, I have not accused you of anything, or called you names. Think on that a while @Lara
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Ask what she thinks of Catholics :cautious:
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
Lara said:
Labeling me a racist for using the word Jews when discussing how the Jews accused and tried Jesus and then took Him to the Romans yelling at them to "Crucify Him!" since they weren't allowed to" is not wrong. Saying, "the Jewish accused, tried Jesus, and " would be grammatically incorrect".
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Lara said:
Oh yes, thank you for the reminder Shero. You, Pepper, JaniceM, and Aneeda did gang-bully me after Pepper labeled me a racist for using the word Jews when discussing how the Jews accused and tried Jesus and then took Him to the Romans yelling at them to "Crucify Him!" since they weren't allowed to". Then went on to say I was revolting and disgusting for using the word "Jews". Btw. I use the word Christians too to describe a group of like minded people. Saying, "the Jewish accused, tried Jesus, and " would be grammatically incorrect".
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I pity you for your stubbornness, pride and arrogance. Are you being deliberately obtuse, or does it come naturally? The fact that you feel bullied is pathetic. I'm sorry for you; as I said before I forgive you because you don't have the discernment to know what you are saying. You are fighting the wrong battle.
 

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