Daniel Penny, who killed Michael Jackson impersonator on NY subway, to be charged with manslaughter

davey said:
we have some good lawyers on this site - can you spot the defence and prosecution?
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Specific facts are crucial to any defense, but as I stated, a throat hold defense requires mitigating circumstances to justify it.
 

Alligatorob said:
We have a pretty good one, if not the best one of the better.

What bothers me a bit is sometimes I think sometimes prosecutions are brought for political or reasons other than the prosecutor believing someone guilty. Being charged with something like this has a big impact on a person, even a successful defense is quite expensive. And there is no place you can go to get your money and reputation back.

Even worse I fear sometime innocent people are brow beaten into taking a deal and admitting guilt to avoid a trial and possibly worse.

Prosecutors are smart people with lots of resources. We should be able to trust them to do the right thing.
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Penny is a hero to many. As far as the money, his legal defense fund is close to $2 million on a Christian fundraising site so that's probably not an issue.
 
SeniorBen said:
Penny is a hero to many. As far as the money, his legal defense fund is close to $2 million on a Christian fundraising site so that's probably not an issue.
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Yep, you are right about Penny, he is less likely to suffer financially.

I wasn't thinking of him so much as other folks who get caught up in the system without the attention or resources he has.
 
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Someone else might have already posted this, but Penny's defense is going to have to prove that Neely was a substantial threat to the safety of Penny and/or the passengers. While he might have been a substantial annoyance, I haven't seen anything to indicate he was a substantial threat to anyone. Did he actually make any physical or verbal threats other than what could be implied from him saying that he didn't care if he went to prison? That's probably not enough to justify physically assaulting him and in the process, killing him.
 
I know I'm substantially jumping ahead but if found guilty I would want his sentence to be service to the city and its homeless population. I'm amazed I'm on Mr. Penny's side, but I am. I'm amazed who I'm keeping company with in this opinion.

I blame my city somehow, it's awful to meet these folks like Mr. Neely. One flamboyant homeless guy made his way onto a commercial for our last mayor's race. I shouted to my son "I know him, he stopped traffic on 1st & 76th!" Got in the middle of First screaming and causing a dangerous situation and slowing down the slow pace of the city.
 
Pepper said:
I'm amazed I'm on Mr. Penny's side, but I am.
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If I lived in your city and had your experiences, I might feel the same, Pepper. That's why I try not to form hard and fast opinions on immigration since I don't live along the Texas border.

I think it's all coming to trial in July. Maybe by then more cellphone video will come to light to help the jurors make a good decision.
 
It's probably already been said, but I don't think we have enough information to know how this happened or to convict Penny at this time. It's a sad situation while at the same time, we are very quick to condemn New Yorkers who stand by and watch violence without offering to help. If Penny is convicted, even if he is not, it won't inspire more New Yorkers to step in and confront violence, if they risk going to jail for it. And of course the media doesn't report the whole news when only part of the news will cause the desired controversy. But in defense of the media, they may not have all the facts either, although we expect them to have all the information on the issue.
 
JustDave said:
It's probably already been said, but I don't think we have enough information to know how this happened or to convict Penny at this time. It's a sad situation while at the same time, we are very quick to condemn New Yorkers who stand by and watch violence without offering to help. If Penny is convicted, even if he is not, it won't inspire more New Yorkers to step in and confront violence, if they risk going to jail for it. And of course the media doesn't report the whole news when only part of the news will cause the desired controversy. But in defense of the media, they may not have all the facts either, although we expect them to have all the information on the issue.
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What was the violence of which you speak? Throwing his jacket on the ground?
 
depends on what video you see of this i am sure many got out their phones .......... maybe more then one angle....
the video i saw this morning had another gentleman laying across or pushing on his chest abdomen as well as others there as well

Where are those charges?

again charge all involved or it will look like selective enforcement to match a narrative
 
Happy Heart said:
Thank you for posting this! I couldn't recall the lady's name but still have not forgotten the brutal attack.
As for Mr. Penny's defense fund, at least he won't be a drain on the taxpayers for defending decent folks. Each donated dollar is a vote for the return of justice to America.
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Each donated $ pledged to Penny is continue and exacerbate the culture wars. (I don't think they give a damn about Penny.) One side found a hero to get behind, ala Kyle Rittenhouse, and the chasm gets deeper and wider.

And there is plenty of blame to go around. Neely had been sentenced to a mental institution, in lieu of jail for his last attack for ~15 months and skipped out after 13 days. NYPD subsequently arrested him but failed to return him to custody. He would still be serving that sentence and alive today if NYPD had just done their jobs in a competent fashion. Instead they left it to the general public and subway riders to deal with.

And from what I've read Marines are trained to use the chokehold until the person passes out. In this case it was almost a minute after Neely passed out that Penny released the hold. A bystander even warned Penny not to kill Neely. "you don't need to catch a murder charge" or words to that effect.

I haven't made up my mind yet, but mistakes were made and it should have never happened to begin with.
 
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Remember who funded bail for the 2020 "peaceful" protesters? What was the effect of that...continue and exacerbate the culture wars?
 
SeniorBen said:
What was the violence of which you speak? Throwing his jacket on the ground?
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I should have restricted myself to calling it threat of violence. From what was described, I believe I would have felt a level of fear if I had been there, and would have been relieved to see him restrained. Not to see him killed, of course, but I don't know what Penny's intention was.
 
JustDave said:
I should have restricted myself to calling it threat of violence. From what was described, I believe I would have felt a level of fear if I had been there, and would have been relieved to see him restrained. Not to see him killed, of course, but I don't know what Penny's intention was.
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That's how I feel when I see someone open carrying a gun, which is legal in Colorado without a permit. How do I know it's not some lunatic who's going to open fire on everyone he sees? And I guess I'd be relieved if someone got that gun fanatic in a neck-compression hold until he passed out.

Before passing judgement on Penny, we need to find out what his views are... whether he's a racist wanting to start a race war or what his mindset is.
 
SeniorBen said:
Before passing judgement on Penny, we need to find out what his views are... whether he's a racist wanting to start a race war or what his mindset is.
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That's crazy talk. His views/mindset may or may not have influenced his actions, but it's TOTALLY irrelevant.

The facts of the case and the relevant laws are the ONLY factors he should be judged on if it goes to trial.
 
againstthegrain said:
That's crazy talk. His views/mindset may or may not have influenced his actions, but it's TOTALLY irrelevant.

The facts of the case and the relevant laws are the ONLY factors he should be judged on if it goes to trial.
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I would not say it is totally irrelevant, it may uncover the true Mens Rea. It certainly is probative if a background check reveals a past of racism, etc. After all, Manslaughter requires less culpability than murder.
 
ohioboy said:
I would not say it is totally irrelevant, it may uncover the true Mens Rea. It certainly is probative if a background check reveals a past of racism, etc. After all, Manslaughter requires less culpability than murder.
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Ok, got it. Here's another recent Perry's story that makes your point.

"Army Sergeant Daniel Perry who was convicted on Friday for shooting a man who allegedly pointed an AK-47 at him."
 
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