Daniel Penny, who killed Michael Jackson impersonator on NY subway, to be charged with manslaughter

againstthegrain said:
That's crazy talk. His views/mindset may or may not have influenced his actions, but it's TOTALLY irrelevant.

The facts of the case and the relevant laws are the ONLY factors he should be judged on if it goes to trial.
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His mindset when he killed someone is "irrelevant?" I don't think any lawyer or judge in the world would agree with that.
 

againstthegrain said:
Ok, got it. Here's another recent Perry's story that makes your point.

"Army Sergeant Daniel Perry who was convicted on Friday for shooting a man who allegedly pointed an AK-47 at him."
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Actually, Perry told the police he was afraid the man with the AK-47 was going to point it at him and acted preemptively.
 
As is the new normal, I expect a lot of the jury's decision will be based on available cellphone footage. I hope they get it right.
 
First, this thread was corrupted the first time around by bringing in a case of a man with a very similar name. I hope that doesn't happen again but this is the case of Daniel PENNY. Don't let anyone fool you with info about a different case.
Della said:
As is the new normal, I expect a lot of the jury's decision will be based on available cellphone footage. I hope they get it right.
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I hope they get it right too. The decision to indict was a grand jury so they only heard one side. I hope this trial is televised. I would like to watch it.

One thing of interest, the defense put out some clips of Daniel PENNY before the grand jury case. He is out there speaking for himself. This is a defense tactic I haven't seen before.

 
fuzzybuddy said:
PENNY did kill a guy. In view of that, authorities just can't say to him, "Well, have a nice day". He has to be charged with the death he caused, and let a jury sort it out.
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I think that's true in most cases, but if it was a very clear case of self-defense, or defense of others as Penny wants us to believe, say the young man had been pointing a gun at people, then I don't think he would have needed to be charged with anything. That must be how the police first saw it when they sent him home.

I'm not on Penny's side, but I hate the way the protesting mob is deciding law these days. I'm all for peaceful protest as a way of expressing our feelings, but I don't think judges and prosecutors should be unduly influenced.
 
Personally, I am shocked at the number of people, especially politicians and celebrities who have spoken out one way or the other on this awful event. None of them was there and witnessed what happened. None of them knew the deceased. None of them knew Mr. Penny. Yet they are all experts on who is to blame, the cause, and the final solution. Amazing.

We need to trust the justice system to work this out. Even if the result does not fit our personal narrative of what we wished had happened.

To put things in perspective, a few months ago a woman was brutalized on a subway train and nobody did a thing to help. People were quite critical of the other passengers, especially the men, who did nothing to help this poor woman as her attacker grabbed her by the hair and dragged her about the car. How soon we forget.
 
Interestingly there is a new case that happened Tuesday. Someone may want a separate thread for this story but a comparison of how they play out will be interesting.

Man stabbed to death on moving Brooklyn subway car; suspect arrested​

BROOKLYN - A 36-year-old man was stabbed to death inside a moving subway car in Brooklyn, and the NYPD said the suspect is now under arrest.

Police responded to a 911 call Tuesday just after 8 p.m. reporting a man stabbed in the chest on a northbound ‘J’ train approaching Marcy Avenue and Broadway in the Williamsburg section.

Responding officers found a 36-year-old man with a stab wound to the chest. Paramedics rushed him to New York-Presbyterian Brooklyn Methodist Hospital, where he died from his injuries.

The victim has been identified as DeVictor Ouedraogo of Bed-Stuy.

The NYPD says Ouedraogo was harassing multiple passengers on the train shortly before the incident... including the girlfriend of the person accused of stabbing him.

Officers from the 90th precinct arrested 20-year-old Jordan Williams of St. Albans Queens and have charged him with manslaughter and criminal possession of a weapon.

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/nyc-crime-subway-stabbing-brooklyn-williamsburg

There's more info in the video.


There's not as much information about this case as there is about the Penny case but it's only been 2 days. Racism accusations were made in the Penny case and Jordan's lawyer mentioned that in the video.
 
Brookswood said:
To put things in perspective, a few months ago a woman was brutalized on a subway train and nobody did a thing to help. People were quite critical of the other passengers, especially the men, who did nothing to help this poor woman as her attacker grabbed her by the hair and dragged her about the car. How soon we forget.
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If authorities keep charging people who defend others critical people should expect to be on their own even more than they are now. Why defend others if you are going to go to jail for it?
 
Brookswood said:
To put things in perspective, a few months ago a woman was brutalized on a subway train and nobody did a thing to help. People were quite critical of the other passengers, especially the men, who did nothing to help this poor woman as her attacker grabbed her by the hair and dragged her about the car. How soon we forget.
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That one must have got by me, do you have a link to this story?
 
Myrtle said:
If authorities keep charging people who defend others critical people should expect to be on their own even more than they are now. Why defend others if you are going to go to jail for it?
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This is a tough call. Legitimate self defense should certainly be protected, and real murder and manslaughter prosecuted. Problem is telling the difference can sometimes be hard.
 
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This did not happen in NYC but near Seattle.

A couple was in their car waiting at a stoplight. A black man approached the car, took out a gun and shot all three. Three? Yes, the lady was 7 months pregnant. Both the lady and the baby died. The husband will survive. They are looking at the possibility it’s a ‘hate crime’. There was no interaction between the shooter and the victims before the incident took place.

I can’t help but wonder…. This man has lost his wife and baby to this shooter. In a few seconds his life is changed forever and for the worst. Assuming he survives, will the hate crime label make a difference to him? I kind of doubt it.
 
Neely had mental issues and was simply failed by the system. There is a dearth of mental health support in this country these days. According to the National Council on Mental Wellbeing, the average wait time is 6 weeks to access behavioral services. If it requires a specialist, the wait time could be months. Also, if Neely was homeless I'm sure he didn't have the $$$ to pay for a therapist.

This is a difficult one for me. I would also find someone yelling and saying he wanted to die to be threatening, but restraining him would be the preferred method of correcting it rather than killing him. I don't consider Penny a hero.
 
Been There said:
Maybe here? There have been others I have found that were also brutalized on the "safest Subway" in America.

Woman Assaulted
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It is really sad that no one helped that woman but I can't blame them. If a man had taken her attacker down and the criminal died then the good samaritan's whole life would be on the line. He would be arrested, jailed and charged. He might be let out on bail and he might not. He might lose his job and his mental health over helping someone. How is it right that the person who defends is the one punished while the criminal and the mentally ill ride the subway whenever they want intimidating, robbing and assaulting at will?

Jordan Williams may be in even more trouble than Penny since he stabbed the criminal to death. It is illegal to carry a knife on the NYC transit system.
https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/about/faq/knives-faq.page#:~:text=Can I carry a knife,within the NYC Transit System.
 
My biggest worry would be the protesters that will be there to intimidate the jury into a guilty verdict or else there will be riots. Also puzzled why Penny's lawyers allowed him to release a video before the trial. Prosecutors have time to study it and try to play gotcha with his statements, facts etc.
 
WhatInThe said:
My biggest worry would be the protesters that will be there to intimidate the jury into a guilty verdict or else there will be riots. Also puzzled why Penny's lawyers allowed him to release a video before the trial. Prosecutors have time to study it and try to play gotcha with his statements, facts etc.
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Good points. Protestors are great intimidators to those that allow themselves to be bullied. The juries don't want to see their city burned or trashed, so they have been known to do what they can to sway opinions.
 
Happy Heart said:
My understanding is that it was in defense of other passengers so it has a chilling effect on standing up for those who are being harassed and intimidated by a someone.
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While I believe Penny had no intention of killing Mr. Neely, being a former marine, he should have known how deadly the choke hold could be. Once other passengers joined in to restrain Mr. Neely, he should have let go of his neck! He could have done so without fear that Mr. Neely could continue harrrassing other passenger. It is an unfortunate outcome and I'll be interested to see how this plays out.
 

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