Do science and religion conflict?

David777 said:
Where science and religion conflict ...
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Another great perspective. I always enjoy your posts especially the thought you put into them. Also, I learn a few more words plus get a mental exercise stringing them together. I only hope the end result is I fully comprehend your sentiment. As such I’m a little afraid to comment on them but I can say I learned the word “inerrancy” and the concept of UIEs. Putting it all together I think I’m liking it:)
 

With science comes theory, which can prove or disprove science. Take for example dropping a rock you are holding in your hand. It will quickly fall to the floor. That proves Newton’s law of gravity, which is scientific. Now, take that same rock into space and drop it. Where does it go? It doesn’t. This is call quantitative science, or maybe Newton was only half right. This is more philosophical than science.

This doesn’t have anything to do with the op’s question, but does give one food for thought.
 

Been There said:
Where does it go? It doesn’t.
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I get your point, but, Netwon’s law was based on scientific methodologies and was thought to be a force. We now know different and a rock in space will still fall towards the nearest mass or masses dependent on it’s relative motion to them. The weird thing about that rock is that if it had a clock on it it would ticking slower than an identical clock on earth would be – assuming said rock was smaller than the earth;)
 
OK, Mr. Science (lol) you used the word force, which is relative to motion. Correct? Of course it is. So, since force and motion or the movement of electrons are both used to create energy, how do we know that the rock will ever change directions? There is an answer to this problem, so think carefully. Hint: It can be answered with one word.
 
Nemo2 said:
I'm an agnostic, I have no 'faith' or 'belief' in a God or Gods.....there are a number of them (apparently) and they're all, at least somewhat, different.......Hindus believe that parents, teachers, and food are next to God. Parents give us birth, nurture us, teach us values. Teachers give us the knowledge to survive in this world. Food is the thing by which we all live. Therefore, these three things have the utmost importance and reverence in Hinduism. (https://www.hinduismfacts.org/basic-beliefs-of-hinduism/).

AFAIK, 'God' is thought of in some areas as 'The Heavenly Father', (not the Heavenly Mother or the Heavenly Welfare Worker), and if 'he' exists then in all likelihood 'his' aim is for humanity to be self sufficient rather than living in his basement for free, eating his food without contributing to its production, and generally being deadbeats.

Perhaps God's mantra is "Get off your butts and get to work, don't expect me to do everything".
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So the women and children being bombed in Ukraine are "deadbeats?" Children born to abusive parents are "deadbeats?" People living on the streets because they can't afford housing are "deadbeats?" Some of them might be, but considering the severity of the problem, it has to be a failure of the system. We didn't have that homeless problem 50 years ago.
 
SeniorBen said:
So the women and children being bombed in Ukraine are "deadbeats?" Children born to abusive parents are "deadbeats?" People living on the streets because they can't afford housing are "deadbeats?" Some of them might be, but considering the severity of the problem, it has to be a failure of the system. We didn't have that homeless problem 50 years ago.
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Wars/battles/skirmishes have always been with us - there is no 'system', we are not the Eloi living in complacent obliviousness like well fed rabbits in a hutch unknowingly waiting to become stew.

It's a tough world, it's always been tough........and the 'deadbeats' to which I alluded are those who think there is some magic 'system' wherein non participation wins a prize.

Homeless?.......50 years ago the world's population was ~3.9 billion, now it's 8 billion...next contestant please.
 
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Many of us know from personal experience, some from childhood, just how tough this world can be. To survive is, in itself, a great achievement. Some are able to find the inner

strength to slay the demons they can, and live with the rest. This requires enormous courage. If there are times when such

individuals are unable to contribute, they are far from deadbeats. This applies particularly to those suffering from CPTSD. Also includes, veterans, members of the LGBQTI community, and many other marginalised members of society.

I have spent decades providing therapeutic support to people such as these. The street youth, in particular, break my heart.

On a positive note, overall, there are many success stories. Amazing what a little compassion and patience can do. It is well to remember, the human psyche is fragile. Under the right set of circumstances, any of us can fall. I certainly have. ♥️
 
Shalimar said:
As for any possible conflict between science, and religion, my focus is elsewhere. I am in the compassion business. I don’t care what a person believes in, unless I believe that they care.
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Not positive i'm understanding the '...unless I believe that they care.' clause at the end the way you may mean it. What it suggests to me is that if their beliefs are very important to them you make an effort to understand those beliefs and how they influence the person's life. But i may be projecting my own feelings.

i have long felt that we have to meet people where they are if we wish to be compassionate and of any 'help' to them in difficult times. We don't have adopt someone's beliefs but we need to understand how those beliefs influence the judgements they pass on themselves and others and the actions they take as a result of those judgements.
 
feywon said:
Not positive i'm understanding the '...unless I believe that they care.' clause at the end the way you may mean it. What it suggests to me is that if their beliefs are very important to them you make an effort to understand those beliefs and how they influence the person's life. But i may be projecting my own feelings.

i have long felt that we have to meet people where they are if we wish to be compassionate and of any 'help' to them in difficult times. We don't have adopt someone's beliefs but we need to understand how those beliefs influence the judgements they pass on themselves and others and the actions they take as a result of those judgements.
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QFT. 🤗
 
Stumbled on this article about the article in link i'm going to post. Thankfully the actual article is available online as i prefer to read and share the original rather than some reporter's distillation. i post this here for a couple of reasons--1) it might be of interest to others, 2) it elaborates on what i said in my comment #39 of this post about scientific 'laws' and how theories can evolve.

i had not heard of/read about the author Sankar Das Sarma, a theoretical physicist. But i will be keeping an eye out. (Actually if i didn't have to take daughter to store this morning, cause we have a storm front moving in tomorrow morning i could easily fall down the 'rabbit hole' of reading other articles of his that turned up when i was looking to learn more about him. One about all the hype surrounding AI and Quantum Computers almost had me.)
So here's the link to the one that did grab me:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2349359-why-the-laws-of-physics-dont-actually-exist/
 
Nathan said:
No, they compliment each other. Religion asks the question...science searches for the answer.
Think of science and religion and the same type of specialization as the left and right sides of the Human brain.

Or in philosophical terms- the Yin and Yang.
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Thank you! Like that POV. The fact that i am a huge science nerd but have spiritual beliefs and am creative tends to confuse some but like this way of putting it. Knowing why a rainbow forms doesn't make it any less beautiful and appreciating its beauty doesn't make a person any less informed about the science.
 
Nathan said:
No, they compliment each other. Religion asks the question...science searches for the answer.
Think of science and religion and the same type of specialization as the left and right sides of the Human brain.

Or in philosophical terms- the Yin and Yang.
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Have you also been exploring the work of Iain McGilchrist? There is reason to think the brain is divided for a very good reason. Every creature needs to attend to two things: one, to whatever dangers and opportunities the world presents in each moment and; two to what we need to take from the world to eat and grow. Both tasks require constant attention. Ideally we would attend in both ways and value both. But we are are cultural creatures who don’t live in a state of nature with one eye out for food and one out for danger. What we value and how we live is often alienated from our better nature. The two hemispheres of our brains permit us to regard the world instrumentally but it also permits us to approach it with a mind open to wonder, inspiration and love. Historically politics and science have been products of our left hemisphere’s instrumental thinking while art and religion are carried in the right hemisphere. But both sides are involved in almost everything we do albeit in different ways.

I shared this once before on this site but if anyone is interested in hearing more about his ideas I still think it is an excellent intro.

 
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feywon said:
Stumbled on this article about the article in link i'm going to post. Thankfully the actual article is available online as i prefer to read and share the original rather than some reporter's distillation. i post this here for a couple of reasons--1) it might be of interest to others, 2) it elaborates on what i said in my comment #39 of this post about scientific 'laws' and how theories can evolve.

i had not heard of/read about the author Sankar Das Sarma, a theoretical physicist. But i will be keeping an eye out. (Actually if i didn't have to take daughter to store this morning, cause we have a storm front moving in tomorrow morning i could easily fall down the 'rabbit hole' of reading other articles of his that turned up when i was looking to learn more about him. One about all the hype surrounding AI and Quantum Computers almost had me.)
So here's the link to the one that did grab me:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2349359-why-the-laws-of-physics-dont-actually-exist/
Click to expand...

i wanted to read the article but it wanted me to give personal info out and allow tracking so I decided to try to find a way around that difficulty.
 
MarkD said:
i wanted to read the article but it wanted me to give personal info out and allow tracking so I decided to try to find a way around that difficulty.
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Sorry i seem to recall it had a way to select what kind of 'cookies' we accept. I clicked on 'Functional' ones only because that sounded like those were minimum one could, and other options sounded like any info you share could be sold. They never asked for any info on me.

Usually if the only option is 'accept all cookies' i pass on reading whatever. But I'm seeing ones that give options that limit them more often lately.
 
feywon said:
Sorry i seem to recall it had a way to select what kind of 'cookies' we accept. I clicked on 'Functional' ones only because that sounded like those were minimum one could, and other options sounded like any info you share could be sold. They never asked for any info on me.

Usually if the only option is 'accept all cookies' i pass on reading whatever. But I'm seeing ones that give options that limit them more often lately.
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Thanks for the tip. Busy day today but will try again tomorrow.
 
Personally, I'd say yes, huge conflicts as some phenomenons are both explained by religion and science... And the debates are highly inflammatory. I won't put examples, it's too risky, lol! However, I've attended conferences in my younger days. Simply, have an open mind and you can find a balance between people's views.
 

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