Do terrorists deserve the same Geneva protection as soldiers dressed uniforms?

How about skipping hypotheticals & addressing this from the 1st. post. Citing examples of military in the 1st. paragraphs leads to how military & spies were treated. Separating military from civilian there was no mention in this paragraph of a military connection, just the word terrorists.

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"Now, what about terrorists ? They do NOT wear any uniform. They are indistinguishable from ordinary innocent civilians. We have seen, time and time again, how people dressed as civilians, become suicide bombers. "

An example of not wearing uniforms & indistinguishable from ordinary innocent civilians.

Boston bombers, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, and his younger brother, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, 19. One died resisting arrest the other tried & sentenced to death.

Foreign or domestic captured & tried is how our system works. Killed while resisting arrest understandable. But once in custody anything less & we are no better than a terrorist.
 

DaveA said:
So where do we stand? Sounds like a lot of dancing around the subject and/or avoiding the uncomfortable question.

Someone or some group, domestic or foreign, carries out an attack or action, within our territory, death resulting. Are they deserving of the exact same punishment, or do we make exceptions depending on whether they are "foreigners" or "native sons" ?
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Give them a trial and lock them up in a supermax prison if found guilty.
 
Every human being deserves to be treated as such. Having said that, a terrorist arrested deserves a fair trial like any other human being and the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. We should not forget that the labeling "terrorists" comes from the side whose interests are being harmed. "Terrorists" consider themselves as rebels/freedom fighters etc.

In our struggle against the British colonialism of 1955 the Cypriot guerillas (since we couldn't fight an all-out war) were labeled as "terrorists" by the British and were executed after summary trials. I guess the same applied to the Americans fighting the British in the 19th century.
 
CAKCy said:
Every human being deserves to be treated as such. Having said that, a terrorist arrested deserves a fair trial like any other human being and the right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. We should not forget that the labeling "terrorists" comes from the side whose interests are being harmed. "Terrorists" consider themselves as rebels/freedom fighters etc.

In our struggle against the British colonialism of 1955 the Cypriot guerillas (since we couldn't fight an all-out war) were labeled as "terrorists" by the British and were executed after summary trials. I guess the same applied to the Americans fighting the British in the 19th century.
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I think you are forgetting one VERY important point. Cypriot guerillas and the American revolutionaries, did not murder their fellow citizens. Terrorists routinely kill totally innocent people/fellow citizens.
 
senior chef said:
I think you are forgetting one VERY important point. Cypriot guerillas and the American revolutionaries, did not murder their fellow citizens. Terrorists routinely kill totally innocent people/fellow citizens.
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Unfortunately, in the case of Cypriots, the person leading the struggle was a fervent anti-communist. He (and his men) ended up killing more Cypriots (with the accusation that they were cooperating with the enemy) than British....
 
oldiebutgoody said:
The Taliban was and remains the only legitimate government in Afghanistan. It is not a terrorist organization.
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The Taliban is not a terrorist organization?

schoolgirl.jpg


Malala Yousafzai was shot in the head by Taliban gunmen - her "crime", to have spoken up for the right of girls to be educated. The world reacted in horror, but after weeks in intensive care Malala survived. Her full story can now be told.
 
Aunt Bea said:
I believe that we should treat terrorists in our custody the same way we would like our own people to be treated in similar circumstances.
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I agree, this is really what it comes down to. Pragmatically we want our people treated fairly, treating the prisoners we hold increases the chance of that.

On the legal side it kind of depends on how you classify the terrorists, as "lawful" or "unlawful" combatants. That seems to be a controversial issue, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_combatant . Part of the problem seems to be that the Geneva Conventions were worked out with more conventional warfare in mind.
CAKCy said:
In our struggle against the British colonialism of 1955 the Cypriot guerillas (since we couldn't fight an all-out war) were labeled as "terrorists" by the British and were executed after summary trials. I guess the same applied to the Americans fighting the British in the 19th century.
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Good point, who and what a terrorist is depends much on one's point of view. French resistance fighters during WWII are another good example. At the time the Germans considered them terrorists, we considered them then and still today as freedom fighters.
 
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mellowyellow said:
The Taliban is not a terrorist organization?




Malala Yousafzai was shot in the head by Taliban gunmen - her "crime", to have spoken up for the right of girls to be educated. The world reacted in horror, but after weeks in intensive care Malala survived. Her full story can now be told.
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The fascist governments of Guatemala and Honduras kill thousands of people (especially Native Americans) every year: The ‘Border children’ controversy: Fascism in Central America & USA — RT Op-ed

Strange how some people fail to apply this categorization to failed states like them.
 
We must never forget that the Taliban are nothing more than gang of murdering thugs who came into power by murdering and terrorizing their fellow Muslims. See Mellow Yellow's post above.
 
senior chef said:
We must never forget that the Taliban are nothing more than gang of murdering thugs who came into power by murdering and terrorizing their fellow Muslims. See Mellow Yellow's post above.
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No different than what fascist regimes have done in Central America. Washington DC and the UN have no trouble validating them. And as shown in a previous post, they have majority support from the populace in Afghanistan. On that basis it legitimates their claim to their governance over that land. Since the USA lost the war it owes Kabul reparations for the depredations it imposed on that country. As we all know, war is Hell. But this is one war they did not start and they deserve a remedy for all the troubles imposed on them.
 
CAKCy said:
I would be grateful if you could point me to the source of this information.
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posted previously: Former Afghan interpreter says 'vast majority of Afghans' view Taliban as 'lesser of two evils' compared to the US (msn.com)


Their ready willingness to step aside rather than to contest their presence is why the Taliban so readily marched into every provincial capitol and reclaimed what was theirs. As Westerners we fail to understand that these people have no conception of the democratic electoral process. For us to try to impose this standard on them is tantamount to some foreign force attempting to force us to accept monarchism. That will NEVER happen. Like it or not, the Taliban is the exclusive and rightful government in Afghanistan. They do not need to adjust to Western standards. Rather, it is the West that needs to adjust to this reality.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
posted previously: Former Afghan interpreter says 'vast majority of Afghans' view Taliban as 'lesser of two evils' compared to the US (msn.com)


Their ready willingness to step aside rather than to contest their presence is why the Taliban so readily marched into every provincial capitol and reclaimed what was theirs. As Westerners we fail to understand that these people have no conception of the democratic electoral process. For us to try to impose this standard on them is tantamount to some foreign force attempting to force us to accept monarchism. That will NEVER happen. Like it or not, the Taliban is the exclusive and rightful government in Afghanistan. They do not need to adjust to Western standards. Rather, it is the West that needs to adjust to this reality.
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My gratitude Sir!
 
oldiebutgoody said:
posted previously: Former Afghan interpreter says 'vast majority of Afghans' view Taliban as 'lesser of two evils' compared to the US (msn.com)


Their ready willingness to step aside rather than to contest their presence is why the Taliban so readily marched into every provincial capitol and reclaimed what was theirs. As Westerners we fail to understand that these people have no conception of the democratic electoral process. For us to try to impose this standard on them is tantamount to some foreign force attempting to force us to accept monarchism. That will NEVER happen. Like it or not, the Taliban is the exclusive and rightful government in Afghanistan. They do not need to adjust to Western standards. Rather, it is the West that needs to adjust to this reality.
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One wonders if the women of Afghanistan support the Taliban ? I seriously doubt it. Daily, women/girls are being kidnapped and forced into marriage.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
Reportedly, the vast majority of people leaving Afghanistan are men.
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I suspect that is because men have greater access to money and the means to travel. Moreover, men are not the caregiver of small children. Thus they (men) have greater freedom of movement.
 
senior chef said:
I suspect that is because men have greater access to money and the means to travel. Moreover, men are not the caregiver of small children. Thus they (men) have greater freedom of movement.
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Possibly. From what I've read from blogs and heard from radio reports, it appears many of these men collaborated with the invading occupiers and fear retribution for their treason or possible conscription into the Taliban forces.
 
Who gets to decide what is a terrorist in the first place?

Is it based on how the wind is blowing? What they look like? Culture? Religion?

Terrorists or Freedom Fighters?

*Nicaragua Contras
*Irgun: Zionist underground organization
*Sinn Fein
*Irish Republican Army
 
oldiebutgoody said:
Like it or not, the Taliban is the exclusive and rightful government in Afghanistan. They do not need to adjust to Western standards. Rather, it is the West that needs to adjust to this reality.
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Unfortunately you are pretty much correct. The "rightful" thing is a bit subjective, but they are getting pretty close to the exclusive part. We need to do our best to find a way to live with them.
Nosy Bee-54 said:
Who gets to decide what is a terrorist in the first place?
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Good question, I think your "how the wind is blowing" is probably closest to right.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
No different than what fascist regimes have done in Central America. Washington DC and the UN have no trouble validating them. And as shown in a previous post, they have majority support from the populace in Afghanistan. On that basis it legitimates their claim to their governance over that land. Since the USA lost the war it owes Kabul reparations for the depredations it imposed on that country. As we all know, war is Hell. But this is one war they did not start and they deserve a remedy for all the troubles imposed on them.
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The U.S. is responsible for those fascist regimes in Central America. We overthrew their democratically elected leaders and installed fascists who were subservient to U.S. corporate interests. We destroyed those countries.
 
We seem to be wandering all over the place. The subject is terrorists and what should we do with them.
Also, we could argue about whether the Taliban is, or is not a terrorist organization for months and still end up right where we started and never achieve anything.

I don't expect anyone to answer to answer this but I give a great deal of thought as to whether we should use every means possible to gain information from those who could lead us to the top leaders of terrorist organizations. And , yes, I refer to torture.

Some will say that torture does not work. I disagree. During WW2, the gestapo routinely used torture and it worked. Many resistance fighters eventually gave up the names and locations of others in their group. That, my friends is a matter of record.
 

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