Does Life Really Amount to Much?

peramangkelder said:
I just keep plodding along and then something happens and I look back over my almost 70 years
and think "What the bejesus was it for?" A lifetime of ill health and 2 thankless children

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And the thankless children would say, “we didn’t ask to be born”.

What happened in people’s lives that they feel their children should be thankful to them. It’s a false expectation, IMO. I had my children because I wanted children. I am thankful to have had children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. It was my decision, not theirs.

They have nothing to thank me for, they owe me nothing. I owe them everything.
 

I wish someone would come back and tell us that there really is life after death for sure, then it would all seem worth it. :) And the myth that the evil doers go to hell and the goodies go to heaven suits me just fine.
 

mellowyellow said:
I wish someone would come back and tell us that there really is life after death for sure, then it would all seem worth it. :) And the myth that the evil doers go to hell and the goodies go to heaven suits me just fine.
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Well I agree that the evil doers go to hell and the goodies go to heaven is a myth. There are, of course, no goodies. As I was taught we are all born with original sin so those that die as newborns, unbaptized, would be assigned to hell, which is beyond ridiculous. No one is that good, anyway. We all sin.

We don’t know what the so called “goodies” are really like nor do we know what happened to cause the real “baddies” in our society. Those who believe in an afterlife must leave the consignment of that afterlife, judgement, to God.

But it does bring me a certain level comfort to realize that my father really didn’t like hot weather. 😂😂😂
 
Aneeda72 said:
And the thankless children would say, “we didn’t ask to be born”.

What happened in people’s lives that they feel their children should be thankful to them. It’s a false expectation, IMO. I had my children because I wanted children. I am thankful to have had children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. It was my decision, not theirs.

They have nothing to thank me for, they owe me nothing. I owe them everything.
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@Aneeda IMO you do not know me or my children and your comment to me was very cruel
My Mother and Father were the 2 most useless parents on the planet and I vowed my kids (if I had any)
would not have to come home to a cold empty house every day for years as my sister and I had done
Mum was an alcoholic and Dad had been a prison inmate twice (several years total) so I do have some idea of lousy parents
I was a Stay At Home Mum and I did that for 37 lousy crappy years until my lazy adult kids had moved out
Then I divorced my 1st husband who was a Compulsive Gambler right through our marriage....ever had your husband
come to you and say I want you to sign your half of the house over to me for 'a sure thing'? I did not!!!!
I asked what would happen if he lost and he said he would go live with his Mum and the kids and I could live in the car
My children are motivated by greed which they acquired by copying my first husband who was a lazy S.O.B
You got it wrong....I don't want anything from them except to contact them now and again but sadly I cannot
Your comment was unnecessarily cruel and hurtful and I don't appreciate it :cry:
 
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IMO, ya get out of it, what ya put into it ... My life was perfect for 45 or so , of my adult years before arthritis. The last five years have been something less. But ! I had everything I really wanted, and did everything I wanted for so long, it is really hard to complain now. Am I complaining ?..... of course I am .... ;) But I also reflect on the past with a smile. And who knows ? Someday 'they may come-up with some form of relief from this dreaded condition.

If I ever just become completely overwhelmed with the dread of it all ?....... I have an instrument that will correct it........
 
peramangkelder said:
@Aneeda IMO you do not know me or my children and your comment to me was very cruel
My Mother and Father were the 2 most useless parents on the planet and I vowed my kids (if I had any)
would not have to come home to a cold empty house every day for years as my sister and I had done
Mum was an alcoholic and Dad had been a prison inmate twice (several years total) so I do have some idea of lousy parents
I was a Stay At Home Mum and I did that for 37 lousy crappy years until my lazy adult kids had moved out
Then I divorced my 1st husband who was a Compulsive Gambler right through our marriage....ever had your husband
come to you and say I want you to sign your half of the house over to me for 'a sure thing'? I did not!!!!
I asked what would happen if he lost and he said he would go live with his Mum and the kids and I could live in the car
My children are motivated by greed which they acquired by copying my first husband who was a lazy S.O.B
You got it wrong....I don't want anything from them except to contact them now and again but sadly I cannot
Your comment was unnecessarily cruel and hurtful and I don't appreciate it :cry:
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In the first place, I never said I knew anything about your life. Has nothing to do with my comments in response to your comment.

In the second place, I never said anything about your parents. They have nothing to do with my comments to your comment.

Let me add, edited, I never said anything about you wanting anything from your children or anyone else. In your anger, you have added things I never said.

My comments were in response to what you posted. I assume you chose to have children, as did I. You chose to consider your children thankless. I disagreed in that I don’t believe my children owe me thanks for anything, therefore they could never be thankless.

I have an adopted son with Downs Syndrome who has an IQ of 53. We spent hundreds of thousands of dollars keeping him alive. Should I expect him to thank me? I think not.
This disagreement does not make my comments cruel or hurtful. I am sorry you are upset, but I have nothing to do with your feeling and bitterness towards your family.

But I am curious, what do your children need to thank you for? You choose to be a stay at home mother, so surely not for that decision. You chose to have children, so surely not for that decision. How exactly are they thankless?
 
Aneeda72 said:
And the thankless children would say, “we didn’t ask to be born”.
What happened in people’s lives that they feel their children should be thankful to them. It’s a false expectation, IMO. I had my children because I wanted children. I am thankful to have had children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. It was my decision, not theirs.
They have nothing to thank me for, they owe me nothing. I owe them everything.
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I've probably made this argument before on this forum, (more than once!), but I could not disagree more so far as whether our children owe parents anything, and using my own parents as an example, their care and dedication helped protect me in so many ways and not just in my childhood.
I owed them much in return, everything from an honest opinion when they maybe needed to hear it, to caring about their interests when other sought to take advantage of them as they got older. I was offended when I saw evidence of other siblings behaving as though they cared nothing for the things my parents cared about, (even the chucking out of some of their belongings when our mother was in hospital, albeit she was terrible for clutter, offended me, though not if my dad sought to chuck stuff out funnily enough).
Finally I'd suggest social cohesion is based to some extent upon parents and children caring for one another, and yes recognising they owe each other a lot, (including being on this planet so far as the kids are concerned).
 
mellowyellow said:
I wish someone would come back and tell us that there really is life after death for sure, then it would all seem worth it. :) And the myth that the evil doers go to hell and the goodies go to heaven suits me just fine.
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There isn't heaven and hell as such. People are punished for their sins here on Earth. Ultimately, the 'goodies' move onto a higher plane, while the baddies have to stay on the lower levels, but it suits some of them. Some people enjoy killing and destroying, so choose to be born at a time when they can join in with wars .
They deserve no mercy, I wish the do-gooders would realise that.
 
peramangkelder said:
@Aneeda IMO you do not know me or my children and your comment to me was very cruel
My Mother and Father were the 2 most useless parents on the planet and I vowed my kids (if I had any)
would not have to come home to a cold empty house every day for years as my sister and I had done
Mum was an alcoholic and Dad had been a prison inmate twice (several years total) so I do have some idea of lousy parents
I was a Stay At Home Mum and I did that for 37 lousy crappy years until my lazy adult kids had moved out
Then I divorced my 1st husband who was a Compulsive Gambler right through our marriage....ever had your husband
come to you and say I want you to sign your half of the house over to me for 'a sure thing'? I did not!!!!
I asked what would happen if he lost and he said he would go live with his Mum and the kids and I could live in the car
My children are motivated by greed which they acquired by copying my first husband who was a lazy S.O.B
You got it wrong....I don't want anything from them except to contact them now and again but sadly I cannot
Your comment was unnecessarily cruel and hurtful and I don't appreciate it :cry:
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🥰I am so sorry you are hurt. As mothers , all we can do is our best. We are not the sole influencers in our children’s lives, nor are our offspring born characterless blobs of clay waiting to be completely molded by us. Some qualities are innate, others formed by a

composite of experiences, choices, etc. Should these children turn out not to be particularly fine adult human beings, it is not always preventable. Also, if we treated them well, it is only natural to wish the same in return, such is human

nature, and a normal part of healthy maternal instincts. For those able to have healthy relationships with their adult offspring, perhaps it is difficult to understand not everyone is as fortunate. Intended, or otherwise, their

comments often come across as parent shaming, which only increases the pain of the parent. Mothers, in particular, are often the target of such finger pointing. I have experienced such myself. It hurts, and leaves scars on a mother‘s soul. 😔
 
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The myriad chain of events that anyone's life sets in motion is incalculable with most of them never seen or understood. You can, however, be assured that you've directly and indirectly touched lives in a way that gives some meaning to those who choose or are able to see it.
 
Well, even though I did not ask to be born, I am eternally grateful to my parents for providing me the life I was afforded. They loved me, and educated me, taught me morals and decency. I only hope I have lived up to their expectations. I certainly have passed this onto my son and to me life amounts to a great deal of satisfaction for a job well done.
 
I am 70 years old and divorced. My ex-wife and I were middle aged when we married. There was no chance of her having children. That didn't bother us. I will not have a legacy to leave behind. My Dad is 93, and will eventually pass away. I am the only family member who is interested in our Ancestry. All of my research will fade away when I die.

However, I know that I have touched many people over the years. I was a senior in high school, living in a small New Hampshire town. The main industry in the town was a tannery. Many parents were under-educated. Their children struggled to learn how to read. I volunteered for Future Teachers to work in a local grade school with sixth graders. I sat with my circle of kids every week, and we took turns reading. I showed the students that I cared, and patiently listened when they read.

On some weeks, I noticed a student was missing from our circle. The sixth grade teacher told me the students had a breakthrough and were able to rejoin their class. I was so happy for the students! And, yes, I felt some satisfaction and pride.

In my life, I experienced similar events. I helped many people learn to use computers. I helped inspire many people to make YouTube videos, etc.

My life hasn't been easy. I haven't always taken care of myself. I've experienced some crushing losses, including my marriage. I suffer crippling panic attacks. But my life is worthwhile, and I have made a difference.
 
Shalimar said:
🥰I am so sorry you are hurt. As mothers , all we can do is our best. We are not the sole influencers in our children’s lives, nor are our offspring born characterless blobs of clay waiting to be completely molded by us. Some qualities are innate, others formed by a

composite of experiences, choices, etc. Should these children turn out not to be particularly fine adult human beings, it is not always preventable. Also, if we treated them well, it is only natural to wish the same in return, such is human

nature, and a normal part of healthy maternal instincts. For those able to have healthy relationships with their adult offspring, perhaps it is difficult to understand not everyone is as fortunate. Intended, or otherwise, their

comments often come across as parent shaming, which only increases the pain of the parent. Mothers, in particular, are often the target of such finger pointing. I have experienced such myself. It hurts, and leaves scars on a mother‘s soul. 😔
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@Shalimar 'mother shaming' has left permanent scars on my soul and I thank you for your obvious understanding 🤗
 
ronk said:
I am 70 years old and divorced. My ex-wife and I were middle aged when we married. There was no chance of her having children. That didn't bother us. I will not have a legacy to leave behind. My Dad is 93, and will eventually pass away. I am the only family member who is interested in our Ancestry. All of my research will fade away when I die.
However, I know that I have touched many people over the years. I was a senior in high school, living in a small New Hampshire town. The main industry in the town was a tannery. Many parents were under-educated. Their children struggled to learn how to read. I volunteered for Future Teachers to work in a local grade school with sixth graders. I sat with my circle of kids every week, and we took turns reading. I showed the students that I cared, and patiently listened when they read.

On some weeks, I noticed a student was missing from our circle. The sixth grade teacher told me the students had a breakthrough and were able to rejoin their class. I was so happy for the students! And, yes, I felt some satisfaction and pride.

In my life, I experienced similar events. I helped many people learn to use computers. I helped inspire many people to make YouTube videos, etc.

My life hasn't been easy. I haven't always taken care of myself. I've experienced some crushing losses, including my marriage. I suffer crippling panic attacks. But my life is worthwhile, and I have made a difference.
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One of the best posts I've read on this forum.
So far as panic attacks goes I had them ten years ago, whilst before that, and a brother in law had been said to suffer them, I'd doubted they existed, so yes I know what it feels like for your brain to feel a kind of real pain inside, and essentially go into meltdown.
 
peramangkelder said:
@Aneeda IMO you do not know me or my children and your comment to me was very cruel
My Mother and Father were the 2 most useless parents on the planet and I vowed my kids (if I had any)
would not have to come home to a cold empty house every day for years as my sister and I had done
Mum was an alcoholic and Dad had been a prison inmate twice (several years total) so I do have some idea of lousy parents
I was a Stay At Home Mum and I did that for 37 lousy crappy years until my lazy adult kids had moved out
Then I divorced my 1st husband who was a Compulsive Gambler right through our marriage....ever had your husband
come to you and say I want you to sign your half of the house over to me for 'a sure thing'? I did not!!!!
I asked what would happen if he lost and he said he would go live with his Mum and the kids and I could live in the car
My children are motivated by greed which they acquired by copying my first husband who was a lazy S.O.B
You got it wrong....I don't want anything from them except to contact them now and again but sadly I cannot
Your comment was unnecessarily cruel and hurtful and I don't appreciate it :cry:
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You are one of the unlucky ones born into a dysfunctional family, you have every right to be cheezed off, I would be too.
 
peramangkelder said:
@Aneeda IMO you do not know me or my children and your comment to me was very cruel
My Mother and Father were the 2 most useless parents on the planet and I vowed my kids (if I had any)
would not have to come home to a cold empty house every day for years as my sister and I had done
Mum was an alcoholic and Dad had been a prison inmate twice (several years total) so I do have some idea of lousy parents
I was a Stay At Home Mum and I did that for 37 lousy crappy years until my lazy adult kids had moved out
Then I divorced my 1st husband who was a Compulsive Gambler right through our marriage....ever had your husband
come to you and say I want you to sign your half of the house over to me for 'a sure thing'? I did not!!!!
I asked what would happen if he lost and he said he would go live with his Mum and the kids and I could live in the car
My children are motivated by greed which they acquired by copying my first husband who was a lazy S.O.B
You got it wrong....I don't want anything from them except to contact them now and again but sadly I cannot
Your comment was unnecessarily cruel and hurtful and I don't appreciate it :cry:
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For what it's worth, adult children today generally seem to not care about what happens to their parents. Not saying all, but enough to be alarming. My parents were much like yours, yet I made sure they were all right and had what they needed as they aged, even though in the end, they didn't have a good word to say about me. Everyone I knew from my generation did the same.

I was a stay at home mom, made sure the kids had what they needed, including my time, but I could be dead for weeks before they'd stop and wonder why they haven't heard from mom in a while. Of course I have to be the proactive one if I want a relationship.

Also, having a parent go to prison leaves a cloud of shame that follows one throughout life, same with an alcoholic parent. I'm sorry this happened to you. It wasn't your fault.
 
Chet said:
No one asked to be here but one day we popped out and here we were. We looked around and tried to figure it out and after 78 years, I still don't know.
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LOL Chet.
I love the quote attributed to Socrates that true wisdom is realizing how little we really know...
 
Judycat said:
For what it's worth, adult children today generally seem to not care about what happens to their parents. Not saying all, but enough to be alarming. My parents were much like yours, yet I made sure they were all right and had what they needed as they aged, even though in the end, they didn't have a good word to say about me. Everyone I knew from my generation did the same.

I was a stay at home mom, made sure the kids had what they needed, including my time, but I could be dead for weeks before they'd stop and wonder why they haven't heard from mom in a while. Of course I have to be the proactive one if I want a relationship.

Also, having a parent go to prison leaves a cloud of shame that follows one throughout life, same with an alcoholic parent. I'm sorry this happened to you. It wasn't your fault.
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Well said, Judy.
 
Personally, I don’t think our children need to thank us for anything. Their father and I wanted a family and consciously set about starting one. As far as we are concerned, they are not morally obligated to be grateful. They don’t owe us .. we owe them.

However, and there is a big however here: should our children ignore us or wash their hands of us..our hearts would break into little pieces and nothing in the world would be able to mend it.
 
We're all shaped by our immediate families, our extended families and our various communities while we were growing up. I think we all pick up ideas about what we should be as children and then how we should be parents during those times. Most of us reach out for other ideas or just reassess our childhoods and think about what we'd like to do differently for our children if we choose to have them.

I'm in the camp that children do not need to thank their parents or be thankful for them. I also think that it's the parent's responsibility to be as good as they can be as parents as in most cases they've chosen to take on that role. Some people who choose to be parents find out they're not quite as good at is as they thought the would be or as they want to be. Others are surprised by how well they've done.

In some cases one's children turn out having negative traits or dispositions due to genetic conditions that they could not have affected. In other cases actions the parents have taken give their children negative traits.

My wife and I saw our children as future adults and we wanted to give them as many tools as possible for being happy, healthy adults. We did well in some areas and not well in others. Overall we're happy with the results and our children have chosen to thank us for some of the things we did. They've also let us know about things that they didn't appreciate.

I'm also of the mind that my children don't owe me anything as I age and recognize that it has been my responsibility to prepare myself and our finances for my later years. I'm reasonably happy that I've done a good enough job to avoid being a burden.

Of course there are all sorts of circumstances beyond people's control that causes them to fail in various areas. I only hope that the compassion I've tried to instill in my children comes out if such a fate befalls me and/or my wife. I also hope that those of you who find yourself in such states also have compassionate children and/or other relatives who are willing and able to help you through your difficult times.

I'm at peace knowing that I did about as good as I could with some notable exceptions that I see as shortcomings in myself. However I can't change the past and hindsight is 20/20.
 
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Dana said:
Personally, I don’t think our children need to thank us for anything. Their father and I wanted a family and consciously set about starting one. As far as we are concerned, they are not morally obligated to be grateful. They don’t owe us .. we owe them.
However, and there is a big however here: should our children ignore us or wash their hands of us..our hearts would break into little pieces and nothing in the world would be able to mend it.
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I have to respectfully suggest you're forgetting a whole host of factors here, even without my putting my "fathers/parents rights hat on"!
In some parts of the globe respect for our/their elders, is fundamental to their way of life, view or what is right and wrong, etc.
I could ask too, how all those generations going back to Adam and Eve, survived into old age (or beyond, if like myself you accept evolutionary theory, and evidence in fossil records)?

There was no " welfare state", or private or employment insurance policies providing pension funds throughout most of human history. Therefore there was nothing left to support those who could no longer grow or catch enough food to survive without their families, or cultural beliefs leading to others giving them sustenance, and of course in the belief and expectation one day those children, when they grow old, might receive the same care, because people believed it was "owed" to the parents and other members of their generation who sustained them!
 

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