Does Tolerance of Skepticism Exist?

dilettante

dilettante

Well-known Member
Location
Michigan
A lot of us are maybe too hard-headed to accept most of this stuff, yet still enjoy being around it. Enough to be friendly about it, not trying to change minds or mock anyone. Attracted without buying in.

This is probably like a lot of stuff these days. One might not accept a thing, but be comfortable to be around it.

I'm wondering how this feels on the other side. Say you're into something like a form of divination. Tarot cards, a pendulum, I Ching, whatever. Does a curious but receptive skeptic bother you? Can a non-believer have a beer with group of Bigfoot hunters?

Do you feel compelled to win such people over? Do you resent a skeptical voyeur?

Maybe somebody else can express what I'm trying to discuss a little better.
 

I enjoy learning about literally everything. In my opinion it is not possible to be well rounded if you don't. You cannot make decisions if all you are ever exposed to is one point of view and there is never just one point of view. Conside them all and decide for yourself.

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Thanks for the feedback.

Recently I read a news article that said curious skeptics include absurdities like non-believers who show up at church services "for entertainment" because they enjoy the social aspects or even the procedures and rituals. I'm not talking about laughing and pointing or something, and maybe they chip in cash during collections and maybe even volunteer for charity drives and such... but don't take it seriously for themselves beyond a certain point.

I had to concede that it would be a rude thing to do. If the person stays silent about it they're lying to the others, yet admitting it might feel like a slap in the face.

I'm not suggesting that a reflexologist or crystal bearing Druid is less serious than a church choir member though. I've attended a... non-traditional spiritual wedding that involved feathers and capes and the passing of a "smoldering bird's nest." Aside from one startled older person (somebody's mom: "is that weed?") it was uneventful in regard to respect.
 
Nothing wrong with skepticism … it’s a positive trait that leads to critical thinking.
On the other hand cynicism is a negative trait and those people I avoid.

I am a curious person and don’t take much at face value… I like to examine evidence, logic and where the information is coming from. I cannot stand those who jump to conclusions.
 
Beezer said:
I find soccer to be the dullest spectator sport ever invented.

But I can still have a pint with soccer fans.
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I get your point about football, to some degree. I used to think the same about golf. Golf used to seem like something that gets in the way of a good walk in the countryside; I was very skeptical regarding golf. Then I watched the end of a tournament on TV with family, and dare I say it, it actually started to get exciting. In a kind of, "what the hell am I watching this for!", kind of way.

That 'episode' in front of TV with family even made me think of taking up golf. I think the thought of golf is something many of us start to think about initially as we reach middle age, maybe even something we worry about. I think when we were younger many of us would think that an interest in golf was something that would never happen to us. Just the thought of it puts fear in the minds of some.

It seems like a laughable matter until it hits you. My dad used to play golf, and some years ago I went along to a golf store with him to buy him a present for his birthday. Then it hit me whilst I was in the store, I started to take an interest in golf too! At first it became upsetting for me. I even started to take an interest in golfing attire, and the thought of having to stand in questionable poses on a golf course.

It gives me the shakes even now just thinking about it. The excitement that came over me at the time, in anticipation of hitting a ball with a stick to see how far it goes became overwhelming for me. Then there was an image in my mind of sitting at home admiring golf clubs as I clean and polished them.

In the end I came to my senses. I gave my dad the money to buy himself something, and I walked out of the golf store, leaving my dad inside. And I cycled home in my lycra shorts, with the thoughts of the environment and saving the planet in mind. Before then putting my bicycle back in the shed and going out for a 'blast' in an excessively quick car.

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chic said:
When dealing with paranormal subject matter, I would think skepticism is a normal reaction.
:unsure:
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Yes, even some of us who have had personal experiences with the supposed paranormal or supernatural will look for material explanations, and don't just accept everything blindly. I know i look for alternatives, but i don't invalidate the personal experiences of others, or talk condescendingly or dismissively to them.
 
I think that it can be natural to have skepticism about something we have not heard much about and is not the generally accepted version of that subject. However, when we talk with someone who has the other view, that is how we can get information to make a decision about which version we believe is correct.

Food/diet is a great example of this, because there are so many people (doctors even !) that have books telling us which eating plan is best for our health. Instead of just dismissing something out of hand, it is good to investigate, ask questions, and learn , before coming to an informed opinion for yourself.

As far as a non-believer going to church; I see nothing wrong with that, even if it is just for the social interaction. That is basically what church is (at least nowadays) anyway; so I believe that any reason for going is a good reason.

An interesting little story…..
Many years ago, I was at a country fair and there was a Fortuneteller type of person there who would give readings for both people and animals.
My husband asked her to come to our house and give a reading for his horse. I didn’t have much faith in whatever she might tell us, but it was an interesting thing to do and she did not charge a whole lot of money to do it.
She said that Isadora was happy , but there was something wrong in her stomach and she did not want to have any babies.

A couple of years later, we moved cross-country and had to sell our horses. The new owner had Isadora bred and when she foaled, there was some kind of a problem and she died giving birth; but the foal was saved.
After we heard this news, it really made me wonder about that lady who gave the reading that Izzy did not want to have babies, because she was right.
After that, i read more information about communication with animals, and I now believe that we are capable of more communication with them than is commonly believed.
 
Much paranormal phenomena is just advanced physics we haven’t figured out how to duplicate and normalize yet. In accepting the validity of anything, it’s good to be skeptical until you get information about it from a variety of sources. Things I once found skeptical, I now accept as valid due to long and arduous research. Therefore I don’t expect anyone hearing unfamiliar information for the first time to believe it, since I didn’t believe it the first time I heard it either. What I do expect is an open mind and willingness to explore. I don’t like people who actively deny the validity of something they have no knowledge of one way or the other.
 
dilettante said:
Maybe somebody else can express what I'm trying to discuss a little better.
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I would hope so.

My contribution to this discussion is just to say that when a sceptic is encountering people whose beliefs seem to have no foundation in reality it would be wise to listen more and talk less. You probably won't win any converts but you may gain a measure of understanding.
 
I am an astrologer. Have been studying it and doing natal birth charts since I was 30. One time I was at a local pub and was sitting next to a psychologist. He said it was just hocus pocus (skeptical). I asked him if could guess when he was born in 4 guesses would that be statically important, and that I was able to do this about 80% of the time. He said yes if I could guess his "sign" and if it true about the 80% of the time. I said it was true, and then guessed that he was a Pisces. He gleefully said no. Then I guessed Virgo. You should of seen his reaction. He turned red and looked shocked because sure enough he was a Virgo. :)
 
Pepper said:
I prefer a person who questions, who is skeptical. I sure am. I can read Tarot too.
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Interesting Pepper. You read Tarots but you are also a skeptic. What things are you skeptical about and how often do you come across people who are skeptical about the ability to tell things from reading the cards?

Re the OP: I've been blessed to be around a lot of people who either also have paranormal experiences or come to respect mine because they witness first hand what I'm capable of. I've even turned a couple of skeptics around. Skepticism doesn't bother me because I know what I've experienced is real and like @chic I realize that being skeptical, especially for those who never had paranormal experiences, is normal.
 
For me, it depends. There can be a thin line between skepticism and blanket dismissal, even paranoia, especially today. As a huge music fan, there are a handful of artists I no longer listen to because of things they've said or believe (and it's not the obvious ones!) I guess there is a fork in the road with skepticism, to the left, doubt ,but with at least enough interest to talk about it, and to the right, intolerance and no discussion.

This goes on a case-by-case basis for me. Loch Ness Monster? I don't believe there is, or ever was, such a thing. UFO's or UAP's, very skeptical. Life on other planets, totally convinced it must exist. Yet frankly, there is more evidence for Loch Ness than there is life on other planets right now, let alone aliens that are visiting. I just think, mathematically, life elsewhere simply must be.

When it comes to the supernatural, I don't have any belief. When I was a kid my mother would read is our horoscopes and we'd listen intently. Today I wouldn't look at them.

The thing with skepticism is, there's a point where it tips over to "I don't believe in that", and at that point skepticism is gone and you're at the end of the line. Skepticism suggests to me that the door has at least not been fully closed. When seeking, I'd always look for peer reviewed scientific studies to support a claim.
 
I don't believe in the supernatural because would lead cause to believe in Jesus and Christianity. I don't believe simply because I have not witnessed anything divine or otherwise to prove these things are real. Life is so much simpler without religion hanging over my head in judgement. This is me and may or may not reflect the beliefs of other people.
It's a shame people cannot step inside another person's thought to determine the validity of what they believe. A lot religious folks are faking it or have an agenda for worshipping and attending church services.
There is limited oversight in religion that may include harm to others such as KKK and church burnings. These hooded white men interpreted their actions as god's will no matter the cost of human lives.

Just saying using god's authority in the name of destruction is nothing new, yet like a divine permission slip from god. By the close of the Indian Wars in the late 19th century, fewer than 238,000 Indigenous people remained of the estimated 5 million-plus living in North America before European contact. Onward civilization, white settlers did not want to share with Native American property and goods. What these god fearing, church going, religious people wanted was everything Native Americans owned and make them civilized to be upstanding American citizens. Instead civilized Native Americans Indians were forced on to reservations so that law enforcements agents could monitor them should there be an uprise.

It is easy to go along with religion because people accept the Bible as god's word as is without researching the possibility of error. If you spend your time surrounded by church and god your view of life will be limited by intellectual stimulation you process through these things. While it may be ideal for some people but you will fail to see beyond the curtain that confines you.
 
Mr. Ed said:
I don't believe in the supernatural because would lead cause to believe in Jesus and Christianity. I don't believe simply because I have not witnessed anything divine or otherwise to prove these things are real. Life is so much simpler without religion hanging over my head in judgement. This is me and may or may not reflect the beliefs of other people.
It's a shame people cannot step inside another person's thought to determine the validity of what they believe. A lot religious folks are faking it or have an agenda for worshipping and attending church services.
There is limited oversight in religion that may include harm to others such as KKK and church burnings. These hooded white men interpreted their actions as god's will no matter the cost of human lives.

Just saying using god's authority in the name of destruction is nothing new, yet like a divine permission slip from god. By the close of the Indian Wars in the late 19th century, fewer than 238,000 Indigenous people remained of the estimated 5 million-plus living in North America before European contact. Onward civilization, white settlers did not want to share with Native American property and goods. What these god fearing, church going, religious people wanted was everything Native Americans owned and make them civilized to be upstanding American citizens. Instead civilized Native Americans Indians were forced on to reservations so that law enforcements agents could monitor them should there be an uprise.

It is easy to go along with religion because people accept the Bible as god's word as is without researching the possibility of error. If you spend your time surrounded by church and god your view of life will be limited by intellectual stimulation you process through these things. While it may be ideal for some people but you will fail to see beyond the curtain that confines you.
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I think you need to tread a little carefully there, Mr. Ed. The word "supernatural" simply means something that is beyond the bounds of science as we know it today, and/or beyond the forces of nature. As such, a Ghost is supernatural. Believing in God is believing in the supernatural too. But you can believe in ghosts and not believe in a God.

Religion, alongside politics, are always very very difficult topics to discuss, be it face to face or on forums. But you are certainly correct that Christianity, like other religions, is often used as a cloak to hide behind. A lot of what is going on in the US right now, for example, makes claims to being a Christian nation laughable. The UK is turning away from religion. Across the UK, 46% of people are Christian, which means the majority either don't believe, or have another faith. As it turns out, fully 37% have no faith, but among the young...... well, they're giving it up in droves. Us oldsters are holding up the numbers.
 
Mr. Ed said:
Just saying using god's authority in the name of destruction is nothing new, yet like a divine permission slip from god. By the close of the Indian Wars in the late 19th century, fewer than 238,000 Indigenous people remained of the estimated 5 million-plus living in North America before European contact. Onward civilization, white settlers did not want to share with Native American property and goods. What these god fearing, church going, religious people wanted was everything Native Americans owned and make them civilized to be upstanding American citizens. Instead civilized Native Americans Indians were forced on to reservations so that law enforcements agents could monitor them should there be an uprise.
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My husband & son was/is one quarter & one eighth native, respectively. This was their diaspora, their holocaust.

When people get on their high horse being offended by those who might be offended by Columbus, etc. think of this statistic. My husband's people were slaughtered as badly as my people, the Jews. Walk in someone's moccasins why don't you.
 
I am a skeptic and somewhat of a cynic, yet I believe people who look to the supernatural have a deep need that has gone unfulfilled. It would be cruel to laugh at their belief.

When the Church became too repetitious for me, I took the cue and left. I guess I'd rather become involved in something helpful to others now instead of being endlessly taught how to live.
 
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Skepticism is a neutral stance awaiting further information. It's a rational approach to acquiring knowledge. I don't know what tolerance of skepticism or tolerance of reason could possibly be. I don't consider myself "tolerant" of reasonable people. I'm drawn to them. I find them intelligent and thoughtful. To be tolerant of skepticism would require adding some odd characteristics to the definition to make it seem undesirable in order to require tolerance.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
Interesting Pepper. You read Tarots but you are also a skeptic. What things are you skeptical about and how often do you come across people who are skeptical about the ability to tell things from reading the cards?

Re the OP: I've been blessed to be around a lot of people who either also have paranormal experiences or come to respect mine because they witness first hand what I'm capable of. I've even turned a couple of skeptics around. Skepticism doesn't bother me because I know what I've experienced is real and like @chic I realize that being skeptical, especially for those who never had paranormal experiences, is normal.
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I question everything, take nothing at face value. As for the knowledge from Tarot: the cards are a tool for an energy. I don't understand this energy. I have no idea what it is, just that it is. For someone who questions everything I don't question this energy. I accept it. I don't want to investigate where it comes from or what is it's nature. I wouldn't get the truth, so I don't bother.

People who are skeptical about the Tarot or what I said above are right to be so. IMO. I have no desire to turn skeptics into believers of anything. My true interest in life is politics, which of course I can't discuss here. Those are the only beliefs I wish I had more impact on. I don't, of course.
 

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