Elementary School Shooting in Uvalde Texas

[ohioboy]

The analysis used to apply an individual right was a legal distinction between the Prefatory Clause and the Operative Clause.

Syllabus from Heller:

(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms. Pp. 2–22.

(b) The prefatory clause comports with the Court’s interpretation of the operative clause. The “militia” comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable this citizens’ militia, enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The response was to deny Congress power to abridge the ancient right of individuals to keep and bear arms, so that the ideal of a citizens’ militia would be preserved. Pp. 22–28.

(c) The Court’s interpretation is confirmed by analogous arms-bearing rights in state constitutions that preceded and immediately followed the Second Amendment . Pp. 28–30.

 

[rgp]

Just heard on the news ....... Now they say the door was not propped open. It was closed but not locked !

Exactly why we should not judge too soon.

 

[win231]

The Uvalde Police Department and the Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating with the Texas Department of Public Safety's investigation into the massacre at Robb Elementary School and the state's review of the law enforcement response, multiple law enforcement sources tell ABC News.
A spokesman for Texas DPS, which is running the state's investigations, declined to comment.
According to sources, the decision to stop cooperating occurred soon after the director of DPS, Col. Steven McCraw, held a news conference Friday during which he said the delayed police entry into the classroom was "the wrong decision" and contrary to protocol.
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/uvalde-police-school-district-no-211000417.html

 

[mrstime]

Yes, Canada is crime free. Their Swat Team members are bored with nothing to do but eat doughnuts.

The Regina Police task force unit is described on its website as: ‘Trained in covert entries (into a building), dynamic entries, high-risk warrant service (drug-search warrant), hostage rescue and resolving barricaded-person situations.

We aren't crime free but we do have good gun laws. We have had very few mass shootings. The worst was "The École Polytechnique massacre, also known as the Montreal massacre, was a 1989 antifeminist mass shooting at the École Polytechnique de Montréal in Montreal, Quebec. Fourteen women were murdered; 10 further women and four men were injured."

 

[ElCastor]

Of course. There is no reason to arrest or prosecute any murderer who uses a gun. It's not the criminals' fault; it's the gun's fault.
Guns have the power to turn decent people into murderers.

Too late to arrest the Uvalde murderer, he's dead, along with his 22 victims, but then he wanted to be dead. Hmmm, had he not been able to buy an assault rifle that didn't exist, maybe some, or all, of his victims would have lived to celebrate Memorial Day. Oh, by the way, it looks like the manufacturer of that rifle is in your camp, and would most likely applaud your post.
"The gunmaker whose rifle was used in Uvalde shooting reportedly runs direct-to-consumer ads aimed at younger buyers"
https://news.yahoo.com/gunmaker-whose-rifle-used-uvalde-105051653.html

 

[Don M.]

The fact that the local Uvalde police have stopped cooperating with the investigations is a pretty obvious admission that they screwed up, big time, in the handling of this shooting.

 

[win231]

Too late to arrest the Uvalde murderer, he's dead, along with his 22 victims, but then he wanted to be dead. Hmmm, had he not been able to buy an assault rifle that didn't exist, maybe some, or all, of his victims would have lived to celebrate Memorial Day. Oh, by the way, it looks like the manufacturer of that rifle is in your camp, and would most likely applaud your post.
"The gunmaker whose rifle was used in Uvalde shooting reportedly runs direct-to-consumer ads aimed at younger buyers"
https://news.yahoo.com/gunmaker-whose-rifle-used-uvalde-105051653.html

I'm not so sure he wanted to be dead. People who want to be dead don't wear body armor.

 

[dseag2]

You speak in a very condescending manner @Timewise 60+. It does not elevate you in the least.

So true.

 

[dseag2]

So, Timewise, according to you, "the right to bear arms" means the right to own and use, for any reason or no reason at all, any weapons of mass destruction? Against innocent people, including children? Just because someone is angry, or just for the hell of it? And to live in constant fear that someone is about to break into our home, so we carry a gun around all the time, just in case? Is that really what you think the founding fathers meant?

And, uh, Timewise, most of us on this forum made it through 5th grade history. We are aware that there are unfortunately times when armed revolution against tyrants is the only course. And we are also aware that weaponry has changed (just a bit?) from 18th century muskets to assault weapons and nuclear war. If our minds aren't mired in quicksand, we recognize that our laws sometimes have to change to keep up with the times.

At one time, women were hanged for witchcraft. Throughout the South, lynch mobs operated with impunity. All over the country, people could be arrested for practicing homosexuality. TV shows had to use "clean" language, and they couldn't even show a married couple sleeping in a double bed. And so on. Lots of laws have gone the way of ancient history, because life is better for the general population without them. All except anything relating to the sacred right to be armed.

Maybe if we put aside the gun worship for a moment and look at this a different way, some sanity might creep in. Let's say there is a deadly poison, so powerful that just a few drops could kill thousands of people. Some individual decides that getting some of that poison is just another way of "bearing arms." So he manages to get some of it, puts a few drops in the city's water supply just for fun, and sits back to see what would happen. He has a history of criminal behavior and/or mental illness; yet, he was able to legitimately buy that stuff just because he had a right to bear arms, and the poison was his weapon of choice.

OK with you? Even if someone in your family, very dear to you, drank some of that water?

Well said @Sunny.

 

[dseag2]

And I won't get a vasectomy because my neighbor has too many kids.

If you ever do get a vasectomy I want the full story. Because, as we say in the South...

 

[Warrigal]

https://who13.com/news/iowa-law-all...ol-law-comes-as-a-surprise-to-teachers-union/

Interesting read, especially the bit about the necessity for continuous training and practice to maintain precision. Also the bit about armed teachers having to be authorised by the education authorities. Lastly, the fact that the teachers know nothing about it.

 

[Warrigal]

We aren't crime free but we do have good gun laws. We have had very few mass shootings. The worst was "The École Polytechnique massacre, also known as the Montreal massacre, was a 1989 antifeminist mass shooting at the École Polytechnique de Montréal in Montreal, Quebec. Fourteen women were murdered; 10 further women and four men were injured."

You could say much the same about Australia. We are certainly not crime free and we have our fair share of people suffering from mental illness. We also have the occasional radicalised fanatic intent on murder but the last massacre occurred in 1996.

What changed? The laws did.
Guess which laws made the difference?

 

[ElCastor]

I'm not so sure he wanted to be dead. People who want to be dead don't wear body armor.

He couldn't have had a long and happy life in mind when he shot his grandmother in the face before setting out for the school. Perhaps he wore the body armor to lengthen and maximize his killing spree at the school.

 

[Pepper]

He was not wearing body armor, just a vest to hold his ammo.

 

[JaniceM]

Interesting read, especially the bit about the necessity for continuous training and practice to maintain precision. Also the bit about armed teachers having to be authorised by the education authorities. Lastly, the fact that the teachers know nothing about it.

Yes, they have a type of continuing-education classes, too.. it's not just a matter of graduate and that's all there is to it.

 

[Liberty]

This is where the killer bought his guns. Notice that you can't "shop guns" right now. Its a restaurant! There is a lot to this story that can come out if the surface is scratched.

https://oasisoutback.com/

 

[oldman]

My wife was a senior Professor at Georgetown University in Washington D.C. She was also the head of her department.

Probably at least once a year, she would tell me about a student getting kicked off campus because he either had a gun on his person or in his dorm room. I never understood why it wasn’t in the newspaper, so I asked the one reporter who always hung around the airport why that was. He said that it had to do with politics. I never quite understood what he was trying to tell me.

 

[Timewise 60+]

The purchase and sale of fully automatic weapons in the United States is severely restricted by law. Presumably this includes hand guns. A 9mm semi-automatic was used to kill several kids in at least one school shooting, and bump stocks which are used to make semi-automatic rifles fully automatic are currently legal thanks to a lawsuit by "gun activists".

"Boulder, Colorado: March 22, 2021: 10 dead
Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa bought a Ruger AR-556 pistol, a semi-automatic weapon with a capacity of up to 30 rounds, six days before the shooting at King Soopers grocery store, police said."
https://www.kcci.com/article/22-mass-shootings-374-dead-where-did-the-guns-come-from/40130537

And, a semiautomatic rifle was used in the Texas school shooting.

A six shooter worked for Wyatt Earp. It, and or my personal preference, a pump shotgun, should be sufficient for home defense, but less practical for mass murder.

You still seem confused, I responded to your earlier comment that hand guns were banned in the USA. They are not! Everything else you said is well known by all who follow this topic! Nuff Said!

 

[Timewise 60+]

If we're going back to the original intentions of our Founding Fathers, the wording of the 2nd Amendment was no accident.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The 2nd Amendment was a collective right of states. It says it right there in the first and second phrases: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..."

That gave states — not individuals — the right to keep and bear arms. Our Founders were against a standing national military, but they supported state militias so that if our country was attacked, states militias could quickly band together and defend our country.

The 2nd Amendment has only been interpreted in the past 20 or so years as an individual right, but that interpretation doesn't make any sense if you look at the actual wording.

Ben, the reason the 'interpretation' has changed is that we now know that even our State politicians can be corrupted and collude with Congress...therefore it is up to the individual to be prepared! This seems to be more relevant each year...

 

[Timewise 60+]

So, Timewise, according to you, "the right to bear arms" means the right to own and use, for any reason or no reason at all, any weapons of mass destruction? Against innocent people, including children? Just because someone is angry, or just for the hell of it? And to live in constant fear that someone is about to break into our home, so we carry a gun around all the time, just in case? Is that really what you think the founding fathers meant?

And, uh, Timewise, most of us on this forum made it through 5th grade history. We are aware that there are unfortunately times when armed revolution against tyrants is the only course. And we are also aware that weaponry has changed (just a bit?) from 18th century muskets to assault weapons and nuclear war. If our minds aren't mired in quicksand, we recognize that our laws sometimes have to change to keep up with the times.

At one time, women were hanged for witchcraft. Throughout the South, lynch mobs operated with impunity. All over the country, people could be arrested for practicing homosexuality. TV shows had to use "clean" language, and they couldn't even show a married couple sleeping in a double bed. And so on. Lots of laws have gone the way of ancient history, because life is better for the general population without them. All except anything relating to the sacred right to be armed.

Maybe if we put aside the gun worship for a moment and look at this a different way, some sanity might creep in. Let's say there is a deadly poison, so powerful that just a few drops could kill thousands of people. Some individual decides that getting some of that poison is just another way of "bearing arms." So he manages to get some of it, puts a few drops in the city's water supply just for fun, and sits back to see what would happen. He has a history of criminal behavior and/or mental illness; yet, he was able to legitimately buy that stuff just because he had a right to bear arms, and the poison was his weapon of choice.

OK with you? Even if someone in your family, very dear to you, drank some of that water?

Sunny, you make up a lot of stories to try and justify your comments. I prefer to stick with the relevant facts, like the second amendment to the U. S. Constitution. You can debate the meaning, but it still stands strong protecting our rights.

 

[JaniceM]

In my opinion, the gun issue is only part of it.. what should also be going on is finding out the reason or reasons there's been such an upswing in anger, hatred, 'gotta-get-somebody' violence.

On any topic, I believe it's impossible to start resolving problems without learning the cause.

 

[Della]

This is where the killer bought his guns. Notice that you can't "shop guns" right now. Its a restaurant! There is a lot to this story that can come out if the surface is scratched.

https://oasisoutback.com/

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at the idea of getting something to eat, a pretty scarf and a gun all at the same place.
---------------------

@Timewise -- Remember that amendment that said we weren't allowed to sell, buy or drink alcohol? Remember what happened there? Amendments can be repealed, they weren't written by God and carved in stone. Stop worshiping them.

 

[oldman]

I’m sticking with my original post. All schools should be single entry and be impenetrable. I think adding a cop or two for security would also be a help. Depending on the size of the school, it may be necessary to have as many as three officers on duty in the schools.

I can’t think of a single way to give or guarantee schoolchildren 100% protection throughout the school day. I would really like to know why this shooter picked an elementary school and also where he got the money to buy his over $6000 of weapons and ammo he had, according to the BBC on Sirius-XM radio.

 

[StarSong]

I’m sticking with my original post. All schools should be single entry and be impenetrable. I think adding a cop or two for security would also be a help. Depending on the size of the school, it may be necessary to have as many as three officers on duty in the schools.

I can’t think of a single way to give or guarantee schoolchildren 100% protection throughout the school day. I would really like to know why this shooter picked an elementary school and also where he got the money to buy his over $6000 of weapons and ammo he had, according to the BBC on Sirius-XM radio.

He may have charged the purchases on a credit card, figuring he wouldn't be around when the bill came due.

Few cities and towns have sufficient budgets to cover one or two or three sworn officers on duty at every school. And where do we stop? "Soft targets" are everywhere. How about cops at every post office during the pre-Christmas mailing rush? Or monitoring stores and malls that have doorbuster Black Friday sales?

An obvious first step is to stop arming ordinary citizens with weapons of war.

 

[Jules]

Uvalde Independent School District police force are no longer cooperating

Thinking about the lawsuits that they’ll be facing.

Few cities and towns have sufficient budgets to cover one or two or three sworn officers on duty at every school.

And what quality of security are they going to get?