Federal Indictments of George Floyd's killers

MarciKS said:
well i'm sure Floyd's family doesn't see it that way.
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I don't see it that way either, but it's the reality. Killers in jail should be treated equally, IMO. I am not against devoted police officers who are there to protect and serve the public. I'm against those who abuse their uniform, and are either racists, poorly trained, or just drunk with power. The good officers, especially those who have been on the force for their whole careers, also don't want the gray cloud that the cops who beat, rape, kill, etc. hanging over their heads every day. They would like the department to be rid of the undeserving, who honestly shouldn't even be carrying a firearm.
 
If you are white, like me, you don't know what it means to become involved with police when you are black. I have never been 'frisked', Lots of blacks can't say that. The 6th leading cause of young black males is death by cop. And young black males are three times more likely than whites to be shot by, cop. And more blacks are shot by cop than whites. Check the net like I did. The facts are there.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
If you are white, like me, you don't know what it means to become involved with police when you are black. I have never been 'frisked', Lots of blacks can't say that. The 6th leading cause of young black males is death by cop. And young black males are three times more likely than whites to be shot by, cop. And more blacks are shot by cop than whites. Check the net like I did. The facts are there.
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There's a big difference between "more" and "more likely."


This is from Snopes:

Do Police Kill More White People Than Black People?

More white people are killed in police shootings than Black Americans, but overall white people are statistically less likely to be killed by police than Black people.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/do-police-kill-more-whites-than-black-people/


Since no one seems able to grasp this basic statistical principle, I will walk away from this discussion.
 
I do not want this to go political, but here are my thoughts on this subject.

The greater bulk of police officers are good people just trying to do a difficult job. There was a time when I donated to police associations, but then I learned that the majority of the money they collected was not being used to help the individual officers who might have been wounded, or their families. The bulk of the money was turned around and given to politicians and I found that to be very offensive. I asked them to stop calling, but they never did.

A few nights ago I got a call asking me to donate to their defense money because of all the lawsuits against them. I told them that I already wrote a check addressing that issue , ...... and sent it to the NAACP. There was a very long silence before he hung up.

Police Officers are not ordinary citizens. They take an oath to uphold the law and when their personal conduct violates that oath, then they need to be held fully accountable.
 
JimBob1952 said:
That's absolutely not true. The police kill many more unarmed white people than black people every year. You don't hear a thing about it.
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Not according to the article below. The article states "Police officers are more likely to use force on black Americans -- and, according to a 2016 study published in the American Journal of Health, black men are nearly three times more likely than white men to be killed by police intervention." Granted the study is 5 years old but it seems things have gotten worse, not better. If you have more recent stats, please post them and tag me. The entire article...keep scrolling for more stats by country and race.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/us/us-police-floyd-protests-country-comparisons-intl/index.html

But I agree, we don't hear about the killings of White men. I remember seeing one though that was upsetting. A White man was running naked in the street, so obviously couldn't have had a weapon on him. He also didn't have one in his hand. As he was crossing the street, one cop told the other to shoot. I believe they killed that man, who was obviously mentally ill and as far as I could see, posed no threat. I never saw follow up on that incident.
@Gaer

@Pecos "The greater bulk of police officers are good people just trying to do a difficult job."
I absolutely agree! My beef is with "Killer Kops" and those who use unnecessary force on anybody, no matter their race or religious beliefs, especially the ones who wind up getting off scott free or with only a minor admonishment.
 
Just surmising, but the police can still shoot to kill, even if no immediate threat to them exists, but if permitted to escape and there is a reasonable belief he may cause serious bodily harm or death to others, and found to be so, it would be ruled Justifiable.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
Not according to the article below. The article states "Police officers are more likely to use force on black Americans -- and, according to a 2016 study published in the American Journal of Health, black men are nearly three times more likely than white men to be killed by police intervention." Granted the study is 5 years old but it seems things have gotten worse, not better. If you have more recent stats, please post them and tag me. The entire article...keep scrolling for more stats by country and race.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/us/us-police-floyd-protests-country-comparisons-intl/index.html

But I agree, we don't hear about the killings of White men. I remember seeing one though that was upsetting. A White man was running naked in the street, so obviously couldn't have had a weapon on him. He also didn't have one in his hand. As he was crossing the street, one cop told the other to shoot. I believe they killed that man, who was obviously mentally ill and as far as I could see, posed no threat. I never saw follow up on that incident.
@Gaer

@Pecos "The greater bulk of police officers are good people just trying to do a difficult job."
I absolutely agree! My beef is with "Killer Kops" and those who use unnecessary force on anybody, no matter their race or religious beliefs, especially the ones who wind up getting off scott free or with only a minor admonishment.
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Same issue. More white people are killed, but black people are more likely to be killed. If you don't understand the distinction, then I don't want to discuss it.
 
Here is the Washington Post database on police killings over the last six years.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

As you can see, over that time police have killed 2,887 white people and 1,508 black people.

In the world I live in, 2,887 is "more" than 1,508.

Of course black people are killed at a disproportionate rate by police, given that they are only 13 percent of the population. I've never said otherwise.

But black people commit violent crimes at a disproportionate rate as well. Over half of violent crimes are committed by black people, despite their being only 13 percent of the population.

This brings them into contact with the police on a far more frequent basis. This contributes to some, not all, of the police killings.

Do we need massive criminal justice reform? Absolutely. But the first step in that process is facing the facts, clearly and honestly.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
If you are white, like me, you don't know what it means to become involved with police when you are black. I have never been 'frisked', Lots of blacks can't say that. The 6th leading cause of young black males is death by cop. And young black males are three times more likely than whites to be shot by, cop. And more blacks are shot by cop than whites. Check the net like I did. The facts are there.
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I did, and the facts do not substantiate this.
 
Stepping back for a moment and looking at the big picture, isn't the real problem the fact that in America, police seem to be doing an awful lot of shooting at people? Whether those people are black or white seems to me a secondary issue. Why are they shooting at all?

Also, of those 2,887 White people who have been killed by police, how many have been unarmed? How many of the Black people were unarmed at the time? That fact might be more significant than just giving the raw numbers.

If a White man is shot and killed while he is shooting his assault rifle at a crowd of people in a shopping center, and a Black man is shot and killed while unarmed, while running away from the cop, are those two things really comparable?

I think it was Mark Twain who said, "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."
 
Sunny said:
Stepping back for a moment and looking at the big picture, isn't the real problem the fact that in America, police seem to be doing an awful lot of shooting at people? Whether those people are black or white seems to me a secondary issue. Why are they shooting at all?

Also, of those 2,887 White people who have been killed by police, how many have been unarmed? How many of the Black people were unarmed at the time? That fact might be more significant than just giving the raw numbers.

If a White man is shot and killed while he is shooting his assault rifle at a crowd of people in a shopping center, and a Black man is shot and killed while unarmed, while running away from the cop, are those two things really comparable?

I think it was Mark Twain who said, "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."
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When you look at the training of police officers, it's primarily OJT. And police depts with 3 employees can become official "police academies". The days of a kid getting a job on a police force straight out of high school are pretty much over. Police work is a complicated, legalistic, occupation. It encompasses everything from infractions to murder, psychiatric conditions, first aid, civil unrest, traffic control........ there's an endless list of duties and obligations. A few hours OJT, riding around with a cop, who was trained by another cop from the 1920s ain't enough.
These people have to be highly educated, and trained, as well as well paid. But I also believe many cops associate blacks with crime to the point that the black's skin color equates with "criminal".
 
JimBob1952 said:
But black people commit violent crimes at a disproportionate rate as well. Over half of violent crimes are committed by black people, despite their being only 13 percent of the population.
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Half of violent crimes are committed by Black people, or half of charges filed and/or convictions for violent crimes are against Black people? There's a huge difference between the two.
Plenty of White people not only get away with violent crimes - they don't even get arrested.
 
StarSong said:
Half of violent crimes are committed by Black people, or half of charges filed and/or convictions for violent crimes are against Black people? There's a huge difference between the two.
Plenty of White people not only get away with violent crimes - they don't even get arrested.
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StarSong, we're never going to agree on any of these topics, but I'm over on another thread enjoying your comments about Lawrence of Arabia.
 
StarSong said:
Half of violent crimes are committed by Black people, or half of charges filed and/or convictions for violent crimes are against Black people? There's a huge difference between the two.
Plenty of White people not only get away with violent crimes - they don't even get arrested.
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And you know this how ??

Do you have any stats that might support this ? From a respectable source ?
 
rgp said:
And you know this how ??

Do you have any stats that might support this ? From a respectable source ?
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What exactly are you questioning? That plenty of White people get away with violent behavior? Or that there's a difference between committing a crime and being charged/convicted for it.
 
StarSong said:
What exactly are you questioning? That plenty of White people get away with violent behavior? Or that there's a difference between committing a crime and being charged/convicted for it.
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I'm pretty sure rgp means this part: Plenty of White people not only get away with violent crimes - they don't even get arrested.

I'm curious myself. I agree there's a disproportionate number of incarcerated Blacks, but those numbers coincide with the level of violence used in crimes perpetrated by Whites and Blacks, gang population numbers, and tendencies to resist complying with authority.
(I don't have any sources handy)
 
The racism is systemic. The black youth are arrested for more non-violent crimes, i.e. drugs, than white youth; a cost of conviction is not being eligible for education loans, for good legit employment and the (immediate) future is narrowed, leading to more crime.
 
Pepper said:
The racism is systemic. The black youth are arrested for more non-violent crimes, i.e. drugs, than white youth; a cost of conviction is not being eligible for education loans, for good legit employment and the (immediate) future is narrowed, leading to more crime.
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Then the problem isn't systemic racism unless you're talking about social services and schools.
 


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