General racial relations: 70s compared to present

IMHO this is a discussion that needs to be had. I would hope that as seniors who are supposed to be intelligent and wise, we can explore this without getting nasty or crazy. I think the avoidance of these types of open discussions is part of the problem that leads to perpetuation. My friends and I (Black and White) have agreed on that.

I think that race relations are going backwards. Yes there was a little improvement by the 70s (improvements shouldn't have taken that long). White Supremacists are increasing their numbers and were further emboldened by you know who. My people are still being stereotyped and face profiling all too often. Black men and women are still being killed during routine traffic stops and in their homes because officers saw Black faces and felt "threatened."

I shouldn't have to worry that my son and grandchildren will fall victims to it...but I do because it is all too prevalent and real. Circa 1991, my son was picked up by his group's manager to do some recording in Jim's studio. Jim lived in Bergen county which was known to be racist back then. They were stopped when Jim was bringing him home; my son's equipment was visible in the back seat. The cop asked Jim "What's he doing in the car?" Jim said they had just finished a recording session, etc. There was no legal reason to stop that car and the cop was so brazen he didn't even fabricate one. He probably saw a White guy and Black guy and assumed that something concerning drugs was going on. Or he just didn't like to see the races mixing. I wish my son had gotten his name and badge number because they surely would have had to deal with me at his precinct. @Alligatorob
 

CallMeKate said:
Personal opinion/observations only... absolutely no data to back it up, but when the 70s were past, I saw racial relations improving (my answer is for the black/white category) for a couple of decades... *however* I do believe it started deteriorating again around 10-15 years ago. I'll be interested in seeing the other opinions here.
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I agree. I think the various factions which are stirring up resentment towards white people are not improving things at all. In fact, I think their intention is to disrupt any attempt to create a harmonious, multi-racial society.
 
I grew up mostly in California suburban areas that were totally Caucasian because Wallstreet, real estate corporations, and their puppet politicians and media controlled where people could live and what jobs were available. Much of the awful discrimination was not because of ordinary people in society because they rarely came into contact with others but rather those that controlled where people lived and worked. That is why ghettos had formed. I never knew people from other races, even Hispanic or Asian. None in my neighborhoods, schools, or media. People are critical of police today as in BLM but in the 60's police in big cities regularly severely beat up those in custody they didn't like, especially in elevators. And until the later 70s, long hairs aka Hippies, were worse off than any other races, likely after being beat to a pulp to be also tossed into cells with Bubba the pervert. The movie Easy Rider reflected reality.

Younger generations today generally have quite poor understanding of how different it all was before the counterculture revolution. Instead they tend to judge racial issues by their limited experiences in current eras. Being in the USAF at that war time under the inescapable Draft, was a way to better understand how greatly different men were from the great variety of states, regions, cities, economic levels, societies, and cultures because suddenly young men were thrust into groups very different than where they came from. Many that came from the South and large urban Eastern cities had huge racial emotions. Those from inner core cities lived in different worlds. Not just issues with race but all manner of cultural issues. When I grew up as a 50s kid, one could buy in many store toy sections, tiny plastic soldiers with guns etc with the enemy figures Japs, Krauts. Western movies and tv had openly disgusting views of native Americans. Different Christian churches taught a lot of hate about Judeo Christians with differing beliefs. Just watch old movies and cartoons from those eras, many of which if on TV have edited out the more controversial scenes. Much shoot first ask questions later.
 

OneEyedDiva said:
I think that race relations are going backwards. Yes there was a little improvement by the 70s (improvements shouldn't have taken that long). White Supremacists are increasing their numbers and were further emboldened by you know who. My people are still being stereotyped and face profiling all too often. Black men and women are still being killed during routine traffic stops and in their homes because officers saw Black faces and felt "threatened."
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I'm so glad you responded to this question, @OneEyedDiva ... I had posted that this is also what I've observed but I was beginning to feel that I'd be standing alone with my opinion of it going backwards. What you said is exactly what I've observed. I am from the mid-Atlantic region, born in the late 50s, and am white for the stats. My opinion of it deteriorating is from what I've seen nationally, not just locally.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
IMHO this is a discussion that needs to be had. I would hope that as seniors who are supposed to be intelligent and wise, we can explore this without getting nasty or crazy. I think the avoidance of these types of open discussions is part of the problem that leads to perpetuation. My friends and I (Black and White) have agreed on that.

I think that race relations are going backwards. Yes there was a little improvement by the 70s (improvements shouldn't have taken that long). White Supremacists are increasing their numbers and were further emboldened by you know who. My people are still being stereotyped and face profiling all too often. Black men and women are still being killed during routine traffic stops and in their homes because officers saw Black faces and felt "threatened."

I shouldn't have to worry that my son and grandchildren will fall victims to it...but I do because it is all too prevalent and real. Circa 1991, my son was picked up by his group's manager to do some recording in Jim's studio. Jim lived in Bergen county which was known to be racist back then. They were stopped when Jim was bringing him home; my son's equipment was visible in the back seat. The cop asked Jim "What's he doing in the car?" Jim said they had just finished a recording session, etc. There was no legal reason to stop that car and the cop was so brazen he didn't even fabricate one. He probably saw a White guy and Black guy and assumed that something concerning drugs was going on. Or he just didn't like to see the races mixing. I wish my son had gotten his name and badge number because they surely would have had to deal with me at his precinct. @Alligatorob
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Speaking to the point you mention about unfounded police suspicions, when I was in college in the late 60s, in San Diego, one of my two room mates was a young black man. One Sunday afternoon we wanted to see a movie that was downtown (SD State is way way east) and we drove down but it was looking like we were going to be late, so when we parked about 4 blocks away, Beau said "We're not gonna make it unless we run," so we took off running, downtown at about 3PM on a Sunday.

Within two blocks a cop car told us to stop using the bull horn in the front grill. The whole thing resolved real quick, we just told the cop what we were doing and he said fine (probably because I was white and verified everything, and because Beau was very well-spoken), but seeing a black man and a white man running thru the street was enough to set off the alarms. I feel pretty sure that if it was two white guys, no stop.

For now, I think there's a lot of pointless mistrust. It has been cultivated from both political directions. It makes what ought to be pretty easy and good, real, real hard, and I'll never forgive political leadership (and I'm using the term in its loosest possible interpretation) for this. I felt that among/between individuals at that time (late 60s/70s), at least on the west coast, things were pretty relaxed, no real mistrust on the individual level. Differences of style, mostly, but so what?

I don't have to have friends of certain backgrounds; I just have to have *good* friends, and color/race has nothing at all to do with it. The funny thing is that it does not cut along racial lines, but along shared values lines.
 
Jamala said:
Black people have been present in the UK, Scotland, Ireland and Wales since the 18th century or earlier.
It would be extremely unusual not to com across one.
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Historically, we're transitioning, becoming more cosmopolitan over a very short timescale.

I'm of SE European descent, both sides of my family coming to the US between 1905-1915. Neither of my parents spoke English as their first language, and when I was young we lived in a pretty insular group that socially, dd not speak much English at times.

I can remember when I was pretty young, maybe 9 or so, overhearing two of the old guys while they were playing cards on a Sunday afternoon (very common pastime). One of them, in English, asked the other, "Do you remember the first time you ever saw a black man?" And indeed, neither had seen one until they came to the US.

So until fairly recently, much of humanity was very insular and isolated, with very little exposure to outsiders.

We're in the process of learning how to get along, I think. Not there yet.
 
Sawfish said:
Historically, we're transitioning, becoming more cosmopolitan over a very short timescale.

I'm of SE European descent, both sides of my family coming to the US between 1905-1915. Neither of my parents spoke English as their first language, and when I was young we lived in a pretty insular group that socially, dd not speak much English at times.

I can remember when I was pretty young, maybe 9 or so, overhearing two of the old guys while they were playing cards on a Sunday afternoon (very common pastime). One of them, in English, asked the other, "Do you remember the first time you ever saw a black man?" And indeed, neither had seen one until they came to the US.

So until fairly recently, much of humanity was very insular and isolated, with very little exposure to outsiders.

We're in the process of learning how to get along, I think. Not there yet.
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I agree, there is still a long way to go, but, you know, I find it so interesting to meet and interact with people of different cultures and races. I was brought up that way and travel helped a lot.
 
Jamala said:
I agree, there is still a long way to go, but, you know, I find it so interesting to meet and interact with people of different cultures and races. I was brought up that way and travel helped a lot.
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I think that contact with various groups/cultures can desensitize/normalize.

But it's not a given that you'll necessarily like it or admire it. We need to be honest with ourselves about what we mean when we say "diversity is good".

E.g, polygamy is a valued cultural institution in many parts of the world. Are we prepared to say that this enriches our experience?

(I'm not criticizing polygamy, per se. It's not for me, but, but for others it appears to be deeply ingrained and normal. If we want to think of ourselves as inclusive, do we include this, or do we have a sort of a line...?)
 
My observations mirror David's in many ways.

I grew up in the 1950's, with liberal parents, in West Virginia, the second "whitest" state in America, after Maine. That combination made it possible for me to grow up completely unaware of races or racism.

Since there were no children of other races in my school there were no opportunities to overhear racist remarks, the only black people on TV were on shows my parents would never have let us watch like, "Amos and Andy."

My parent's friends who came to dinner, included Christian people, Jewish people and a black family who lived in Charleston, but they were described as the, "Fikes," "Kaufmans" and "Youngs," not by their religion or race. Yes, the Youngs were all very dark complected, but the Fikes were all redheads, so I knew family members tended to look alike.

I was a teenage before I learned about race. I was on the bus and heard someone say, look at the "colored," people, and I honestly looked out the window expecting to see someone who had been colored with crayons. My brothers say they had similar experiences. Soon after we got to the Civil War in history class and I learned the whole, horrible story of slavery. We didn't need Black History month back then we were taught it all in regular history. At least I was proud to know the people of my state cared enough about the issues to separate from Virginia and fight on the Union side.

So I went off to college, fairly innocent of all prejudice regarding race and started dating a black student, after which I heard enough ugly comments to learn "the way things are" quite quickly. My like-minded best friend from high school was kicked out of her sorority for doing the same thing. I was busy rebelling against the class system of sororities, so that didn't happen to me.

But those were fast changing times, and within a few years I was marching in civil rights marches, heard MLK speak, made friends with many free thinking people of several different races. Most of the suspicion and hate my friends and I experienced was because we were "dirty hippies" in the eyes of most people.

I married a young white man and we went to live in his hometown of Marietta Ohio. We learned he was on the local FBI watch list -- because he had long hair.
(to be continued)
 
Sawfish said:
I think that contact with various groups/cultures can desensitize/normalize.

But it's not a given that you'll necessarily like it or admire it. We need to be honest with ourselves about what we mean when we say "diversity is good".

E.g, polygamy is a valued cultural institution in many parts of the world. Are we prepared to say that this enriches our experience?

(I'm not criticizing polygamy, per se. It's not for me, but, but for others it appears to be deeply ingrained and normal. If we want to think of ourselves as inclusive, do we include this, or do we have a sort of a line...?)
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One can only go by the law of the country. In the UK for instance you are allowed only one legal husband or wife. In Arabic countries, it is different.
 
I think, from personal observations, that there is more violence. Verbal, physical and tragic. People are no longer trying to get along, there's a lot of one-ups-manship. There is really nothing to prove but many people are upset all the time. I see this in all of the people I observe. Makes me sad....
 
Jamala said:
One can only go by the law of the country. In the UK for instance you are allowed only one legal husband or wife. In Arabic countries, it is different.
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So does this mean that traditional Muslims with multiple wives are excluded from the UK?

Not sure how this works here in the US, but it's a serious question about what we mean when we say that we think that cultural diversity and inclusion and tolerance are positive goods.

I mean, is it only good when we agree with it, to start with?

This is not aimed at you, but is a general question for the group to ponder.
 
Classicink said:
I think, from personal observations, that there is more violence. Verbal, physical and tragic. People are no longer trying to get along, there's a lot of one-ups-manship. There is really nothing to prove but many people are upset all the time. I see this in all of the people I observe. Makes me sad....
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Yes, I see this, too, and increasingly so. The idea of compromise is entirely absent.

It's not encouraging, is it?
 
Sawfish said:
So does this mean that traditional Muslims with multiple wives are excluded from the UK?

Not sure how this works here in the US, but it's a serious question about what we mean when we say that we think that cultural diversity and inclusion and tolerance are positive goods.

I mean, is it only good when we agree with it, to start with?

This is not aimed at you, but is a general question for the group to ponder.
Click to expand...
This might help to answer your question...

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN05051/SN05051.pdf
 
Polygamy. I have no personal involvement, but a man having 4 serious affairs and one marriage? To me, immoral but legal. And having five marriages simultaneously is illegal. OK, married five times, no divorce and hiding it from the others? Should be illegal. If everyone is involved, why is it illegal? This is not a soap box for me, but it makes me curious. (I don't think I have ever known a polygamist, legal or illegal)
 
My experiences were experienced thru the mind of a child. The saying ignorance is bliss applies here. I am white….and while we certainly could of been poorer I still can not pass a dumpster without wondering what useful things it contains for dinner or my house. Thus I compared my experiences with people of color as being similar. While being raised by my mother, both my parents were very open minded for the times…if you did not bring the wrong person on a date. My mother’s excuse was how difficult it was for mixed race families. Stupid stupid. But now when I learn about redline and all the other insidious things meant to suppress a group of peoples I get PISSED that this happened. No wonder so many people are mad. I was ignorant for sure. We were not the same at all.
 
I should hope better but I'm white. When a certain person ran for president and made very terrible comments about Mexican people and didn't tank in the poles, my first thought was 'OMG, he's saying what some people think.' I remember Howard Dean tanking overnight over a yell. Which is still played by a certain conservative talk show duo (if you wonder why I'd listen, I like listening to talk when I drive. Keeps me company, if I agree or not and with the demise of KGO from San Francisco, conservative is all that's out there for my car)

I had a former co-worker whose number I finally blocked. She'd call me at home sometimes and just blab and she always refered to people as 'that black lady' or that 'indian guy' over and over. I'd had enough of her. She spammed me about 9 calls I noticed on my cable phone log after I blocked her. I guess she got the message. I'm not putting up with that crap. Who knows what really goes on in peoples minds.
 
I was raised in a midwestern town of 60k. The school I attended was a mix of black and white. I had black friends but dating them was understood not to be acceptable . Most black people lived in one poor area. This was the norm in the Midwest. There were no Hispanics.

When I moved to Reno in 1997 I wondered where all the black people were. The minority group here is Hispanic. I think we have a long way to go because our society is still racist especially police departments. It doesn’t feel as bad as the 70’s but maybe it’s just hidden more.
 
I was raised in a family that embraced all races. My husband was raised the same way. We honestly believed all races were the same. A few months ago my grandson was engaged to a black girl. When they broke up I was devastated. I really loved her. My husband mentored a black guy years ago and he and his wife call me and my hubby Mom and Dad. I never saw a difference in either race.
 
I grew up in and still live in a predominantly white area where race is not normally an issue. The Air Force I was in was a melting pot, but we all wore the same uniform and there were no problems that I saw. What I see happening in our normally quiet area is that N.Y., N.J. and Philadelphia types are coming here and bringing their problems with them, and hate me for saying so, but they are mostly blacks and Hispanic.
 
After HD from the USAF in 1970, since 1971 have lived in Silicon Valley that demographics show is the most ethnically diverse urban area in the country though was less so until the 1990s when the diversity narrative was strongly pushed by HR departments controlled by those educated to be so by Ivy League elites and their Wallstreet masters. Note always low levels of African Americans due to our high cost of living. That was also when offshoring, outsourcing, and hiring H1B's increasingly dominated tech hiring as the USA sadly lost its world class leading manufacturing and science engineering dominance in order to transfer wealth to the undeserving eastern bean counters.

The original motivation was envious Wallstreet bean counters that gradually bought their way into West Coast tech corp influence, hated how SF Bay Area tech workers were being paid higher wages than elsewhere, so purposely for the sake of lowering competitive product costs and profits, tended to hire foreigners or the little experienced just degreed out of top universities, who could for a list of reasons not command higher salaries except for a few guru's. And they made the guru's teach underlings. Sometimes before being themselves laid off in order to receive severance benefits. As a counterculture person from late 60s, I long learned to live with "Let it be" attitudes to all those different. Have worked and been under direct management of many ethnic groups, gender types, foreigners, and cultural persons. Was successful with several jobs lasting over 5 years because I learned to be neutral, fair, and technically unreplaceable in corporate landscapes full of personal land mines.
 

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