Ghislaine Maxwell found guilty of supplying girls for financier Jeffrey Epstein

hollydolly said:
16 is a legal age , some of these girls were just 14 years old....
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Were they upfront about their ages @ the time ?

When I was 26 I took a young [19yr/old] woman/girl on a date ......... a movie & drinks after. The drinks, we had in a bar .......... she had a Vodka Gimllet , I had a beer.

Found out later ........ she was only 16 ...... lived next door to a guy I worked with.
 
Pepper said:
Should we ban songs like Sweet Little Sixteen; 16 Candles; You're 16, You're beautiful, and you're MINE; and a lyric like Well, she was just seventeen; you know what I mean 😉 😉
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Ah, Thank you! This is a cultural matter and our culture got very loose and the media did promote what we have made illegal. And I wonder how much of what is happening now is wanting revenge on rich people?

What is going on in our own hearts? Jesus said let the person who has not sinned throw the first stone, and what I see is an excited mob with pockets full of stones, ready to throw them.

For me, this is all about culture. I wish all men and women were loving and committed to being better people and family values. That is not what our culture is promoting.
 
rgp said:
Were they upfront about their ages @ the time ?

When I was 26 I took a young [19yr/old] woman/girl on a date ......... a movie & drinks after. The drinks, we had in a bar .......... she had a Vodka Gimllet , I had a beer.

Found out later ........ she was only 16 ...... lived next door to a guy I worked with.
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I'll say it again.. 16 in many places is a legal consenting age...14 is not!!
 
Vida May said:
Ah, Thank you! This is a cultural matter and our culture got very loose and the media did promote what we have made illegal. And I wonder how much of what is happening now is wanting revenge on rich people?

What is going on in our own hearts? Jesus said let the person who has not sinned throw the first stone, and what I see is an excited mob with pockets full of stones, ready to throw them.

For me, this is all about culture. I wish all men and women were loving and committed to being better people and family values. That is not what our culture is promoting.
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"And I wonder how much of what is happening now is wanting revenge on rich people?"

I know several folks that are extremely hatefull concerning the wealthy.

Some of them think I'm "rollin-in-it" [I'm not] because I am single and they think I have it so much beeter than they do ......... [I don't know, nor care] how we compare.

A woman I know works data entry for a bank. One of her bosses retired ........ she actually believes his retirement package was too much ........ and should have been divvied up among the employees shuch as herself.

She said, that's too much, he has too much........ I said well ....... somewhere tonight there is a guy going to sleep in a cardboard box under a bridge ......... who thinks you have too much. How much are you willing to give back ?? ..........No answer.
 
rgp said:
I agree but ......... How does one know the age ......... if the girl in question lies ?

14 can look like 16 ......... just like 16 can look like 19.
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who said they lied?... in fact most of them said that Maxwell knew very well how old they were when they took them under her wing and acted like a 'big sister' to them....at first
 
hollydolly said:
who said they lied?... in fact most of them said that Maxwell knew very well how old they were when they took them under her wing and acted like a 'big sister' to them....at first
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First of all ...... of course they would say that ....... it fortifies their case . I never said they lied, I asked if their actual ages were actually known.
 
Pepper said:
Absolutely not. In fact, I have sympathy for men who have been genuinely hoodwinked. It is the law which says not knowing the girl's true age when she lies about it are guilty anyway as ignorance is no excuse.
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Well, having been there - done that ...... I think ignorance of the facts ....... should be an excuse if the facts are fudged.
 
rgp said:
I agree ........... and wow I hate to say this but. Every photo & video clip that I saw of the "victims" back in the day, appear to be smiling / laughing / posing etc .......... I have to wonder, just how forced coerced were they ?

Is there money involved ? As in civil lawsuits , fortified by the legal outcome ? ....... Follow the money.
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There is always money or promise of career or advancement like every workplace sexual harassment .....
the fact is the age thing and traveling across state lines / flying out of country
If creative they could have gone after tax evasion......... as girls had cash payouts not W2🤣

It is dismissed as blame the victim and people who admit they see it are scolded .......but if they are participating in hopes of a modeling or acting career. Sooner or later even the most naive girl should have Woke up to what was really happening.

So they were doing what they thought to get the job.... when UNDERAGE where are parent or guardian like any working child actor for example who often had parents as agents...most all have guardians present at jobs.

Funny people want to question this.......... but it seems to be a case of workplace harassment everyone is to be believed
Why did people jump on bandwagons when adult actresses Knew / heard about Harvey Weinstien but went to his hotel room .......but it is a career move.
For many they did not get the career advancement they thought they would perhaps why it took 15-20 years to bring it up.

I myself am just curious as to why some famous got a pass in media for being involved and others need to be... scorned.

If they go after average person for underage and just SOME of the folks that have been rumored to have participated

but some others get "oh no i was on vacation there I had NO idea what was going on" and people say he said wrong place wrong time ... he or she is good. To me sounds as if those paid to keep it quiet and they knew what was happening
 
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If I had my way, she should be locked up and they should "throw the key away." Another spoiled, high rolling celebrity that needs to be cut down to the ground. Totally disgusting woman!
 
Pepper said:
Absolutely not. In fact, I have sympathy for men who have been genuinely hoodwinked. It is the law which says not knowing the girl's true age when she lies about it are guilty anyway as ignorance is no excuse.
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Here is the charge in Count 4 concerning Transportation. As far as 2423 is concerned, we note the below defense of mistaken age, however, the burden shifts to the defendant as to proof, not the Govt. However, as you stated, in general rape cases, mistake of age is not a defense in most jurisdictions, not only that, an affirmative defense is just that, a defense, a question for the trier of fact to decide, it is absolutely not a winning pass. However, in her case, the ages were well known, no mistakes.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2423

(g)Defense.— (f 2 concerns Coercion) my note
In a prosecution under this section based on illicit sexual conduct as defined in subsection (f)(2), it is a defense, which the defendant must establish by clear and convincing evidence, that the defendant reasonably believed that the person with whom the defendant engaged in the commercial sex act had attained the age of 18 years.
 
ohioboy said:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2423

(g)Defense.—
In a prosecution under this section based on illicit sexual conduct as defined in subsection (f)(2), it is a defense, which the defendant must establish by clear and convincing evidence, that the defendant reasonably believed that the person with whom the defendant engaged in the commercial sex act had attained the age of 18 years.
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so commercial sex act is 18 ..... but age of consent for amateur status can vary by state ........
i needed to laugh today
 
Jeni said:
There are many elites and famous and i think this should be released ...
It was mentioned as one of the reasons Melinda Gates.... used in her divorce from Bill Gates

people should Know just how sick some of these people are.... and they do not even blink an eye because they know money and the elite club will protect their own.
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I agree Jeni. But being rich and powerful, they will probably remain protected. I'm sure many palms have been and will continue to be crossed (with money) to help keep the little black book secret.
@ohioboy Thank you for breaking it down for me.
 
While I watched a show about Mae West last night, I made a note of something said in the show. Believing women do not enjoy sex makes women victims. I do not believe the molested girls were victims. I believe they were consenting and enjoying what they were engaged with, and they could have walked away from it whenever they wanted to. The problem is not that being sexual harms young women once they have entered puberty and are consenting, but our Puritanical society makes women who enjoy sex victims of a Puritanical judgment against them. That is where the shame comes in, our judgment of it being shameful to enjoy our sexuality. Mae West enjoyed her sexuality and I can relate to that, while also being strongly inhibited by the Puritan mentality that became a part of who I am when I was very young.
 
Devi said:
Points taken, @Vida May. However, the issue here is what the law says.
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Correct. Age laws have always been a part of criminal jurisprudence. For example, even if a State has no specific Statutory age to charge a person with a crime, charging a 5 year old with murder won't cut it, and I believe in Ohio there is no "specific" statutory age. I remember in one State a person under 10 years old is incapable of committing any crime?
 
Pepper said:
I have sympathy for men who have been genuinely hoodwinked. It is the law which says not knowing the girl's true age when she lies about it are guilty anyway as ignorance is no excuse.
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This is a hard thing, having physical relations with underaged people is never good, on the other hand sometimes finding out ages can be hard. Not sure I agree with the law on this, but it is what it is.

When I was 20 I knew a girl who looked all of 20 to me, and she acted it. Found out she was 13, I was shocked. Thankfully her mother told me before I got into trouble.

In this case I have no sympathy for Maxwell or Epstein, they actively recruited these girls and if they did not know the ages they had the resources to figure it out.
 
My great-grandson age 13 was molested by a female classmate and then charged with rape. When it came out she had been molested by a family member, my great-grandson's explanation of being molested by her was accepted as the truth. In truth is it often the young female who initiates sex, and I think we are being sexist in assuming it is always the male who advances on the female. The matter is hormonal and I wish we were more tolerant.

After my great-grandson was accused of rape, I realized sex education may neglect to explain the statutory law. He was victimized by the girl and the consequences of her accusing him of rape were socially and emotionally traumatic. But who wants to start sex education with an explanation of statutory rape?

I want to clarify, it was the sexual experience that harmed him, but the reaction of adults and his peers.
 
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