spectratg
Senior Member
- Location
- Adamstown, MD
You are correct. It's an evolutionary thing. Like most other animals, because of the male-female dichotomy, the male assumes a superior attitude, like with the great apes for example.
God has a plan. An observation and a question.
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spectratg
Senior Member
- Location
- Adamstown, MD
I agree with you. Death is the inevitable end of our existence, of our individual consciousness.
Been watching some videos on Youtube about different concepts regarding the multiverse. Our feeble minds, individually and collectively, cannot grasp the immensity of our universe. But beyond even that, the Reality of existence (something rather than nothing) may be eternal and infinite where everything is possible and even inevitable. So for me personally, I have the hope that somehow I may be reunited with my wife, Somewhere and Somewhen.
Knight
Well-known Member
The immensity of our universe is another one of my thoughts. No doubt the expanse is beyond what we can grasp.
So with that in mind & the story that "God" made heaven & earth. That as a concept means that heaven & earth didn't exist. That puts "God" outside of our universe.
Why outside ?
Being reunited sounds like a nice idea. That meeting would require being sentient, then require cataloging billions by a supernatural being that is billions of years old has the task .
That same being that hasn't interfered with mankind for the last two thousand years.
Capt Lightning
Well-known Member
- Location
- Historic Buchan, Scotland
I wondered where to post this one... but here's a nice little song by the 70's band Stackridge. It's called "There is no refuge"
spectratg
Senior Member
- Location
- Adamstown, MD
I don't think that it requires a supernatural being. If these theories about Reality/Multiverse/Existence are true, an eternity and infinity of all possible outcomes, then than makes my hope as something that I can hold onto. Note that I don't allege that they are true, just posited as an if/then conjecture.
Em in Ohio
Senior Member
- Location
- OH HI OH
This might be a new thread some day - about women in the bible. I did a search of both the old and new testaments and found more women mentioned than I remembered. But, I wasn't counting when I read them straight through!
spectratg
Senior Member
- Location
- Adamstown, MD
Exactly right! There was once an apex predator named saber-tooth tiger who preyed on (among other animals) the human animal. So what did the human animal do? We learned to hunt together, to communicate, and to invent spears that allowed us to eliminate the threat from the face of the earth. (Yea okay there were other factors involved too, like climate change.)
We are the Apex Predator on the planet Earth; we can hunt and have hunted other animals to extinction.
However, bacteria and (especially viruses) seem to be evolving as fast as our ability to try to keep them in check. Mother Nature (not Father God) may yet have the last laugh.
Em in Ohio
Senior Member
- Location
- OH HI OH
Gary, may I ask what version of the bible you use? I was taught that there is an eternal hell - and my virtuous father would be there.
"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matthew 10:28
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matthew 25:46
"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out." - Mark 9:43
Knight
Well-known Member
From my post
So with that in mind & the story that "God" made heaven & earth. That as a concept means that heaven & earth didn't exist. That puts "God" outside of our universe.
Why outside ?
I guess understanding that to make something that isn't there you have to be outside of whatever, & it's not something to be thought about.
I asked why with no hazarding a guess. It would have to be guess work.
What would be wrong with the place you were or was it so bad that trying again was the only option? Considering the general attitude that our planets inhabitants don't function all that well together. IMO this would be a failure that no longer required watching for the last 2000 years.
So with that in mind & the story that "God" made heaven & earth. That as a concept means that heaven & earth didn't exist. That puts "God" outside of our universe.
Why outside ?
I guess understanding that to make something that isn't there you have to be outside of whatever, & it's not something to be thought about.
I asked why with no hazarding a guess. It would have to be guess work.
What would be wrong with the place you were or was it so bad that trying again was the only option? Considering the general attitude that our planets inhabitants don't function all that well together. IMO this would be a failure that no longer required watching for the last 2000 years.
Includes how the universe was created by The Creator:
"Bible Search ... Search results for: universe
62 verses found. Showing up to 25."
https://biblescan.com/search.php?q=universe
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"Finally, there is the scriptural contention, and of the three it alone makes sense: the universe was created by an uncaused First Cause greater than itself. Time, space, and the universe have not always existed, but God has always existed, and God’s existence is the cause for the existence of all else that exists. While science demands that the universe had to have a beginning, nothing philosophically or scripturally demands that the cause of the universe had to have a beginning."
https://www.faithgateway.com/did-god-create-everything-out-of-nothing/
"Bible Search ... Search results for: universe
62 verses found. Showing up to 25."
https://biblescan.com/search.php?q=universe
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"Finally, there is the scriptural contention, and of the three it alone makes sense: the universe was created by an uncaused First Cause greater than itself. Time, space, and the universe have not always existed, but God has always existed, and God’s existence is the cause for the existence of all else that exists. While science demands that the universe had to have a beginning, nothing philosophically or scripturally demands that the cause of the universe had to have a beginning."
https://www.faithgateway.com/did-god-create-everything-out-of-nothing/
Knight
Well-known Member
Round & round it goes.
If nothing was there it had to be created from outside. So why create something if something already exists where a creator creates from?
Was this an experiment that failed causing the creator to kill everyone except Noah & his family? How did that work out?
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
I agree we've all got more to think about than that haven't we, (or we should have!).
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
I've read what you describe in an anarchist diagram showing hierachies, (in a Marilyn Manson book I believe), but you shouldn't ignore the way religions such as Christianity were seen as a threat to begin with, and I'd argue have at times provided a check on absolute power.
Gary, may I ask what version of the bible you use?
I lean toward the New KJV
"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” - Matthew 25:46
“Eternal punishment" (they're not coming back to life)
"If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out." - Mark 9:43
Yes, the fire will consume them, it will not be quenched
Eternal hell, torment forever, is a controversial subject
It takes some 'line upon line' precept upon precept' study to come to some conclusions
(That's somewhere in Isaiah)
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Actually not. Remember the apostles, specifically for one example Simon bar jona /Peter/ ?
How did Jesus reveal , in the Gospels, that the apostle Peter , and little children, learned the truth, learned Yeshua is the Messiah ?
Please give me some texts
and elaborate a bit more
(I have no idea what you're saying)
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King James Bible
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Jesus asked the apostles who others said that Jesus is/was. The apostles replied some say a prophet, some say Yochanan the Immerser, and some say Elijah/or Elisha/ the prophet returned.
Then Jesus asked Simon barjona/Peter/ who do you say I am ?
Peter answered truthfully and correctly: You are the Christ/Messiah/ Son of the Living Elohim/Creator.
Jesus told Peter then - blessed you are Simon barjona, flesh and blood/study and reading and human teachers and ways/ has not revealed this to you, but your Father in Heaven Revealed it to you.
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from biblegateway.com, many translations available to compare there, none contradicting the others.
Matthew 16:17 Bible
17 Then Jesus answered him, “Blessed [happy, spiritually secure, favored by God] are you, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood (mortal man) did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.MSG
Jesus came back, “God bless you, Simon, son of Jonah! You didn’t get that answer out of books or from teachers.
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In another place, while praying out loud eyes opened toward heaven/the sky/
Jesus Praised the Father for Revealing Salvation and everything concerning Salvation to little children/infants, and for hiding it from the educated ones, because thus it is His Good Pleasure so to do/understand that the educated ones were the ones proud, defiant, rebellious then and today, who rejected the Messiah/ ....
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@Just Jeff
Forgive me
I have no idea where yer going with all this
And that's OK
I certainly don't know or understand everything
I'm just glad you're studying The Word
And if your studies are changing your character, that's the big one
By beholding we are changed
2 CORINTHIANS 3:18
But we all, with uncovered face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Forgive me
I have no idea where yer going with all this
And that's OK
I certainly don't know or understand everything
I'm just glad you're studying The Word
And if your studies are changing your character, that's the big one
By beholding we are changed
2 CORINTHIANS 3:18
But we all, with uncovered face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image, from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
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Naturally, or simply, we cannot learn /experientially/ the truth by studying books , nor from human teachers.
The Heavenly Creator has Revealed , as He Pleases, that He Reveals the Truth as He Pleases , to whomever He Pleases.
Em in Ohio
Senior Member
- Location
- OH HI OH
From your second link: "Finally, the doctrine of creation out of nothing underscores the reality that God alone is omnipotent. A God who creates out of eternally existing matter is less than the omnipotent Sovereign of the universe who spoke, and all that is leaped into existence."
This is the second option. My question is, why would an omnipotent designer create a planet with natural disasters?
The smallest bit of matter (so small that science is currently unable to measure it accurately) is the quark. If we assume that a god-creator always existed prior to the creation of the universe, why can't we assume that matter always existed, (perhaps so small that it is undetectable) and natural dynamic forces (Big Bang) set things in motion?
It's just that it seems to me that it conflicts with what you previously said:
Gary O' said:
"There is no 'eternal hell'
Nothing in The Bible supports that."
- and many of the bible passages are controversial subjects. I know in the church that I attended, they started to 'soften' the life-in-a burning hell concept by the time I left.
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It is life and death better if nothing is assumed.
I don't know, why would He ?
Yeah, that was a bit of a broad stroke
Forgive me for that
I'm in a bible study involving that very subject
Pardon my play on words, but it hasn't been a burning desire of mine to study whether or not there's a hell where folks are tormented forever
But, I'm quite interested now
I'd like to think not........not by the God of love
But, that's just my thought
A few verses to substantiate that, but there's other texts
like
Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
"The smoke of their torment arising forever" is not a problem.
Could be the only left over reminder of the event
It's the rest of the verse that I don't understand
I'm in conversation with some scholars
Heh, they go deeper than I ever hope to go...
Em in Ohio
Senior Member
- Location
- OH HI OH
I had trouble hearing the words, so here are the lyrics: (I could personally relate, though I went through this much earlier in life. The final line reminded me of a thread that I started about situation ethics, reflecting the moral basis of theologian Joseph F. Fletcher's book. Simply put, love should be the guiding principle in ethics.)
There Is No Refuge Lyrics
Since my sixteenth birthdayDoubts have plagued my sleep
Each yawning daybreak found me hopeless
Writhing underneath the sheets;
I searched four years to find myself
Some purpose to this life
Dividing wrong from right
Even mere consciousness caused such pain
Walking through the woodland;
Tender springtime leaves;
Those little flowers in the meadow
Speak of innocence and peace:
There is no refuge in this world
No saviour, "Self", nor soul
Discarding every goal
When understanding comes -
There is love