Jesus always knew how his life would end. When he uttered those words, it was just his humanity kicking in as it did on Gethsemane. He was actually acting out Isaiah's account. I can write a tome on this, I once did, but can't do so anymore. Wish I could.Yes, I agree. This line has bothered me so much I wish it had never been written. I wonder what the original Greek says, how it interprets that line, because it makes me feel that what happened on the cross was not the way Jesus thought it was going to play out.
God has a plan. An observation and a question.
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Em in Ohio
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As an agnostic, I acknowledge the possibility of god(s), but state that there is no way to prove their existence. My bottom line, however, is that the god of the bible is not someone I could respect. If all knowing, all powerful, with a plan, etc., why not do the kind thing in the simplest way? If we are created in his image, why are we so flawed?I still feel uncomfortable with it Gary. Feeling forsaken is one of the worst feelings there is. And why couldn't God just forgive everybody anyway? He's omnipotent? I can see why atheists and agnostics have trouble with all this. I have trouble too and I believe in God but have serious issues with things written in the bible.
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I wish I had an answer
I don't
Just glad it worked out
I do know He readily, eagerly forgives those who ask
Not many ask
Somewhere in Revelation it talks about opening the books during the 1000 yrs in heaven
We'll see the whys
and find there could be no other way
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Guess he's flawed too.
Paco Dennis
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The Bible is just one of many stories about how we came to be. Most of them have perceived contradictions, or they are too unbelievable.
Em in Ohio
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Agreed. Some other day, I'll launch into the subject of matter and quarks and what came first, the chicken or the egg (-;The Bible is just one of many stories about how we came to be. Most of them have perceived contradictions, or they are too unbelievable.
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Being intelligent enough to create weapons is exactly why we are apex predators. Being on an episode of Naked and Afraid shows what we were like before we developed said weapons. Not even close to apex predators.
Why? It's why organized religion makes no sense. When confronted with a question that's indefensible it's "Well it's God's plan" or somesuch other nonsense.
I'm pretty sure most people don't take everything in the bible literally. You'd have to be pretty stupid to do so as you point out. The stories are just to make a point.
Think about it, back in the early days the Kings (and the religious elite like cardinals and the Pope) lived like, well Kings. They had all the best food, wine, and yes, women while the masses starved and suffered. How do you keep them from revolting? You create an imaginary Heaven where if you just suffer some now you will live like a king yourself in another life. And it worked like a charm for the most part.
Because likely there is no plan. This is it, enjoy what you have here. We as humans have a very high opinion of ourselves as being somehow so above the other creatures of the earth, but are we? I think not, we're really no more important then any other creature on earth just trying to survive till tomorrow. But death scares us, so we invent another life after this. Totally understandable, but just as unlikelyThat's what I worry about. The heaven thing. Many are comforted by the fact that they believe there is this perfect magical place they will go to after they die where they will be reunited with dead loves ones. But it sounds like brainwashing to me. It's just not a comfort.
No argument
I pretty much detest 'organized religion' in all its insidious forms
That's one of my problems with Catholicism which I grew up in. They teach that no one who is not baptised can get to Heaven. So had Mother Theresa been a Muslim or Jew and had lived the same remarkable life serving the sick and poor she would never get to heaven. Does that seem right? Or does it seem like something man would make up to get people to become Catholics.
He's God and he couldn't keep us from sinning? Makes no sense. And really, Jesus dying for our sins makes no sense either. So Jesus, who is actually God (if you believe in the Holy Trinity) sent his Son (who is really him) to die for our sins? Again, where is there any sense in this? If God was going to forgive our sins , why would Jesus have to die? Just forgive our sins. And what about all the sinners who came after Jesus. Who's dying to forgive their sins? All this stuff can make your head swim.
But why was this even necessary?
Because God was actually created in man's image, not the other way around.. That's why he has so many of man's vicious sides, like anger, revenge, etc. the real God if there is one probably can't believe what we've come up with. Think about it, God speaks of women being subservient to their men. Why is that? Because that's what the men of the time who invented the myth thought about women. Do you really think God thinks of women as second class citizens?
It's the results of sin
Death
Much like what's happening with how we've treated our planet
Not good
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Em in Ohio
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I had a cousin who was stillborn at full-term. Since we are guilty at birth of "original sin," (according to the Catholic church), my cousin didn't go to this heavenly spot. And according to the bible(s), this god said:
To me, that means that he acknowledges that he isn't the only god and that he is spiteful enough to damn 3 or 4 generations of our progeny if we tick him off. Charming.
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The God who dies is a common myth in that area, in that time.
Murrmurr
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Apparently, I have a different definition of Apex Predator. And it could be wrong, but most of my adult life I lived in small towns and villages in the Sierra foothills and mountains, and the old men and local Native Americans talked about predatory animals a lot. Based on that, I know who's Apex and who isn't.
Whether you have a rifle, a bow, or a pile of rocks, you can't smell them coming. They know exactly where you are, what you ate last, and whether you have gun-powder. You kill indiscriminately. They can take you or leave you using wisdom and excellent judgement, instinctive and learned. You know where your hide is. They know where everything is. You fear them, they are wisely cautious, but they don't fear you. They know you are much weaker, slower, and that you can be stupid.
The one thing you have in common with them is that you are both opportunistic. But an experienced hunter knows that edible apex predators are wiser, faster, and more cunning. That's why he'll take a deer that will feed him for a few weeks rather than a bear that would feed him for a whole season.
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Yet people are out hunting these apex Predators you think are so smart and deadly. Almost all of them would be extinct if we didn't protect them. That's not an apex anything
Myth being the operative word
Murrmurr
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I think you're sort of missing my point, but that's ok. And this part > That's not an apex anything < among the animal kingdom, that refers to humans, imo. We're apex inventors, though.
Em in Ohio
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This is repost of the original poster's thread, just to put it back on track. She asks a very good question and this leads us into a fascinating thread, in my opinion.God has a plan. I hear this a lot especially from desperate people or those who are suffering. Some tell me this when I am struggling and it doesn't comfort me a bit. I wish it did. I usually go silent when someone who is hurting badly says this, more to themselves than to me, and just let them talk.
We all have challenging times in our lives at some point and feel stretched to the limit. Maybe we need real help or a definite plan that we are privy to not just patronizing words that are easily dismissed. I've seen a lot of loved ones die, many well before their time, a couple by suicide and I wonder, what was God's plan for them because it didn't work out too well.
A plan implies sharing. In war, Generals make plans and share them with subordinates. How else can a battle be won? Similar strategies are employed in sports where teams have a game plan with specific plays to achieve certain results and victory.
What good is a plan when it is kept hidden from those it directly concerns?
How do you feel about the title "God has a plan"? And do you think His plan should be shared with us so we could cope better with life's slings and arrows?
spectratg
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Good point. However, I personally like the fact that the conversations on many Senior Forums threads often veer off into unexpected directions. I find it fascinating that so many of us are prompted by the original post to correlate that with other interesting information and observations.