God has a plan. An observation and a question.

Naturally said:
As mentioned in my first post in this thread, I would not presume to know [God's] plan or will. Nor am I a biblical theologian.
Here are a couple of links that may help you answer those questions ...
How were people saved before Jesus died for our sins?
Where are the people that died before Jesus? Heaven or hell?
And there are many other articles pertaining to your questions.
Here is the link to the google search I performed to find the above links ...
Before Jesus, how did people get to heaven
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From your reference of

https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-too...e-the-people-that-died-before-jesus-heaven-or

The Bible reveals that no human beings have yet ascended into heaven (John 3:13). All humans who have died (even those who have had God's Spirit dwelling within them) are waiting in their graves for the return of Jesus Christ to establish the Kingdom of God on earth.

Since Jesus Christ hasn't returned what does that mean to you?
 
Knight, your reference is from the United Church of God. Are you a member šŸ˜¬
https://www.gotquestions.org/United-Church-of-God.html

The United Church of God (UCG), based in Ohio, United States, holds to doctrines that conflict with biblical Christianity. The United Church of God is faithful to the doctrines of the late Herbert W. Armstrong, the charismatic and controlling leader of the Worldwide Church of God.

Armstrong believed that he was an end times apostle proclaiming the soon-coming ā€œKingdom of God.ā€ The Worldwide Church of God modified its teaching after Armstrongā€™s death, prompting members faithful to Armstrongism to split off and form their own organizations. The United Church of God, founded in 1995, is one of those offshoots....

The false doctrine of the United Church of God and its ties to the cult of Armstrongism make the UCGā€”and its splinter group, the Church of God, a Worldwide Association (COGWA)ā€”organizations to be avoided.
 

Knight said:
From your reference of

https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-too...e-the-people-that-died-before-jesus-heaven-or

The Bible reveals that no human beings have yet ascended into heaven (John 3:13). All humans who have died (even those who have had God's Spirit dwelling within them) are waiting in their graves for the return of Jesus Christ to establish the Kingdom of God on earth.

Since Jesus Christ hasn't returned what does that mean to you?
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Well, I would have to read John chapter 3 ... a conversation between Jesus and Nicodemus. Nicodemus also had many questions and verse 13 was part of an answer given Nicodemus by Jesus in response to a question. And reading, I may see something different than you or the article I linked. I would read with an eye toward the big picture and not try to take anything out of context or impose my meager human understanding. The article linked was an opinion based on a belief. There are more opinions and beliefs than the multitude of religions.
For those interested in the Jesus, Nicodemus conversation ... John Chapter 3

Your question: "Since Jesus Christ hasn't returned what does that mean to you?"

At a young age, I was moved by the spirit to confess my sins and dedicate my life to Christ. I remember the experience as the song "Just As I Am" was being played and sung. It was as though two great powers were battling within me. Good and evil one might say. A much higher, divine power than myself won that battle that day and the sun was never brighter and seldom have I felt happier. No doubt someone's prayers were answered.

While like you, I have questions, my eternal salvation is not a question I still have. Although I may someday again have some explaining to do :eek:
 
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@Naturally , don't get sucked in to Knight's reference from a false doctrine of the United Church of God and its ties to the cult of Armstrongism make the UCGā€”and its splinter group, the Church of God, a Worldwide Association (COGWA)ā€”organizations to be avoided.

Sorry Knight, you may be unaware but I felt compelled to share what I know about that reference
 
Lara said:
Knight, your reference is from the United Church of God. Are you a member šŸ˜¬
https://www.gotquestions.org/United-Church-of-God.html

The United Church of God (UCG), based in Ohio, United States, holds to doctrines that conflict with biblical Christianity. The United Church of God is faithful to the doctrines of the late Herbert W. Armstrong, the charismatic and controlling leader of the Worldwide Church of God.

Armstrong believed that he was an end times apostle proclaiming the soon-coming ā€œKingdom of God.ā€ The Worldwide Church of God modified its teaching after Armstrongā€™s death, prompting members faithful to Armstrongism to split off and form their own organizations. The United Church of God, founded in 1995, is one of those offshoots....

The false doctrine of the United Church of God and its ties to the cult of Armstrongism make the UCGā€”and its splinter group, the Church of God, a Worldwide Association (COGWA)ā€”organizations to be avoided.
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Lara said:
@Naturally , don't get sucked in to Knight's reference from a false doctrine of the United Church of God and its ties to the cult of Armstrongism make the UCGā€”and its splinter group, the Church of God, a Worldwide Association (COGWA)ā€”organizations to be avoided.
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I think Knight was just referencing a link that I had provided. I should have known better than to link an opinion I guess. An opinion not written in my own words or strictly words in their entirety from the bible. It's just that I am not religious and as stated, in my entire adult life have MAYBE only attended one or two religious services. Knight was asking questions best left to his pastor in his faith, whatever that might be. I was only trying to help. Sorry for any confusion or misunderstanding I may have caused.
 
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Lara said:
It happens, Naturally. I just wanted to make you aware because you were headed down a slippery slope.
Sometimes I get protective. That's the mother instinct in me ;)
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Thank you Lara. Knight asked valid questions. Others could certainly help him with those questions better than I. My "little" brother is a retired pastor of over four decades and stewarded churches in three states, but he and I have never discussed religion. We are totally brothers but respect each others own beliefs. There is likely some commonality and I don't think he questions my salvation. While I have seen (Pastor) Mike perform marriages, funerals and blessings before meals, I have never been to one of his services. I am not religious. When struck by lightening and the subsequent "strange dream" I had when I was 19 affected me profoundly ... and in a spiritual, not a religious way. I was flesh and blood alive and in an instant quicker than the snap of a finger, found myself in a whole 'nother world not of flesh and blood for a period documented 10 minutes or so. He gave me a choice and He sent me back.
 
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Wow, you sound interesting, Naturally. Someday if you feel comfortable, you may want to share your story here when you were 19 with others.
Meanwhile, if your brother doesn't live too far from "the Corner of Walk 'n Don't Walk":giggle:, you might consider visiting him. It's never too late.
 
Lara said:
Wow, you sound interesting, Naturally. Someday if you feel comfortable, you may want to share your story here when you were 19 with others.
Meanwhile, if your brother doesn't live too far from "the Corner of Walk 'n Don't Walk":giggle:, you might consider visiting him. It's never too late.
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Lara, I have shared it here ... for the most part ...
Dear Diary: Strange Dream (Spiritual in Nature) 1972
 
Blaze Duskdreamer said:
Thank you. That was nice to hear. No, I just didn't feel well yesterday and didn't have time. This will, unfortunately, often be the case. But, well, you have to make the best of what you have. I just found out about a supplement that might help with at least some of my many health issues. Cross fingers (or pray if you want I'm not offended by people wishing me well) that it will help and I won't be spending as many days desperately taking medicine and groaning on my bed. But I can't really complain as said medicine usually works (for some reason didn't yesterday and that's worrisome; unfortunately, doctors are not miracle workers and there is only so much they can do) and I am usually better within hours. A day as bad as yesterday is rare.
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Nice to see you back Blaze. Sorry to read you're not feelng well ... sending you good vibes. :)
 
Blaze Duskdreamer said:
lol - As well as a myriad of other foods that aren't kosher too. Not criticizing really. I was just curious because of your remark. I too never understood - even when I was Christian - the Christian dismissal of the Old Testament. Particulary its many rules. There are hundreds of commandments, not just the 10 big ones and the kashrut laws are just a fraction of them. I thank you for having a sense of humor and not taking offense. It's appreciated.
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Thank you ... I pray I never lose my sense of fun and as for offense it is in the eye of the beholder!
 
Y'know it's funny
Not haha funny....
But, God is depicted as some sorta exacting, all controlling demiurge

One reason He gave His Son
To come to earth
At the time of stringent Pharisaic rule by the chosen people
To show us how He really is
A God of Love

'He that hath seen me hath seen the Father'
Study His words in the gospels to know what God is like

My heart goes out to those without Him
with the crap going on in society these days

The Lord is patient
But, won't let things go for very much longer

'And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come'

We may be there

'Behold, I come quickly'
 
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What's "Islam growing fastest" have to do with the "Gospel being preached to the world"? The scripture verse Gary quoted is true that with the communication technology we have now biblical scripture can reach everyone worldwide. Period. It didn't say everyone who hears the gospel is going to believe it. So then it issues this timely prophetic warning "and then comes the end".
 
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What do Religious fanatics have to do with Gary's post? Sorry but I'm just not following.
Richard Dawkins is quite firm in his belief as well to put it nicely.
 
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Lara ... there is nothing for you "to follow."
This is not your thread and I have not addressed you anywhere. This is chic's thread and anyone is permitted to write their ideas here.
I made a comment to Gary ... he did not reply... you did...
Why? Do you always speak on others' behalf?
 
Jamala...This is a discussion forum for all SF members.
If Gary wants to reply he will. He has been notified that you posted his quote.
Apparently I've hit a nerve and for that I apologize. I'll leave you be. Carry on.
 
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chic said:
God has a plan. I hear this a lot especially from desperate people or those who are suffering. Some tell me this when I am struggling and it doesn't comfort me a bit. I wish it did. I usually go silent when someone who is hurting badly says this, more to themselves than to me, and just let them talk.
We all have challenging times in our lives at some point and feel stretched to the limit. Maybe we need real help or a definite plan that we are privy to not just patronizing words that are easily dismissed. I've seen a lot of loved ones die, many well before their time, a couple by suicide and I wonder, what was God's plan for them because it didn't work out too well. :cry:
A plan implies sharing. In war, Generals make plans and share them with subordinates. How else can a battle be won? Similar strategies are employed in sports where teams have a game plan with specific plays to achieve certain results and victory.
What good is a plan when it is kept hidden from those it directly concerns?

How do you feel about the title "God has a plan"? And do you think His plan should be shared with us so we could cope better with life's slings and arrows? :unsure:
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Yes ā€¦ I do believe a plan, a divine plan was made. Certainly not individual plans, nor the sort of plan that is believed by some. That seems highly incredible and unlikely.
Since no one knows who God really isā€¦ I am going to say the Creator of the Universe.

I do believe the Universe was created with a plan in mind. some 13.77 billion years ago according to measurements made by NASAā€™s WMAP spacecraft.

Our planet Earth is only one of the 100 million at least in the Milky Way (there are millions more).
No one knows what will happen to our planet. So any idea of a plan is fraught with problems and false hopes.

Who is to say, other life forms do not exist on other planets. On this planet (Earth), we are equipped with a brainā€¦ a truly wonderful gift and it is up to us to make use of it. To use it wisely and to make our own plans.

The beauty of making oneā€™s own plans is that, when they come to fruition, we take the credit and by the same token, when those plans go wrong, we have no one to blame but ourselves, not Jesus, God or the Bible.
Apologies for the long post. Have a nice day!
 
Lara said:
Sorry Knight, you may be unaware but I felt compelled to share what I know about that reference
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No need to be sorry. It's not often that questioning the bible gets a response that makes sense. Sad that you feel sucked in by questions.
 
Knight said:
Sad that you feel sucked in by questions.
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"Sucked in"? What makes you say something snarky like that? This is a Discussion Forum.
I know, Im a Christian and you don't want my faith-based opinion that differs from yours.
Well God said Christians will be persecuted. I can handle it believing that God is watching.
 
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Lara said:
"Sucked in"? What makes you say something snarky like that? This is a Discussion Forum.
I know, Im a Christian and you don't want my faith-based opinion that differs from yours.
Well God said Christians will be persecuted. I can handle it believing that God is watching.
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"Sucked in"?
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Could be something I read in your post #605
 

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