Guns- Educate Me.

One of the fallacies of arming the masses, thinking that the good guys will eradicate the bad is this... Most of those who suggest this as the solution have never taken another's life with a firearm. The "good" in this Nation will hesitate before killing their fellow man. That moment's hesitation will render them as another victim of the deranged who has no such conscience.
In some red states... our being one... the GOP lead governments have begun allowing college students to carry on campus. How many of those students can or would actually pull the trigger to take another's life? Making the split second decision to take another life is lightyears different than poking holes in paper targets.
 
Shalimar said:
Re gun control. No guns without a background check--two month wait if you are lucky. Even if no impediments, must show just cause to need a weapon. Papers to transport rifle to shooting range required. Very difficult to get a handgun permit. Very limited in what type of handgun permitted, same deal with ammo. We like this, it seems sensible. We are leery of shooting people in our homes. (home invasion.) Unless one can prove a life threatening situation existed, crimes against property is not a viable excuse. We kill the intruder, we go to jail. Of course, very few people are shot by burglers here. Owning guns is seen as a privilege, not a right. Given that our homicide rate continues to fall, I believe our attitude re gun control is obviously a good thing. I recall the surprise exhibited by an American police officer on holiday in Calgary during Stampede week, incensed because he had not been permitted to bring his gun across the border. He was freaked about how to
protect himself on the mean streets of Calgary?????? Different mind set to be sure.
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Similar to current California law, as a gun owner I can live with these conditions.
 

Grumpy Ol' Man said:
Well, you asked for that "nest of wasps"!!!! Any statement such as "If everyone had a gun, soon there would be no criminals" is absurd. Hand a firearm to those mentally deranged... someone dies. Hand a firearm to those who have been convicted of violent crimes, done time in prison, and are back on the streets... someone dies. How many innocent lives would be taken before there were "no criminals"?? How could anyone assume that it would be the law-abiding who prevail? Does some gene guarantee that a law-abiding citizen is a better shot or "quicker on the draw"???

I guess history proves that both England and Australia should have armed every single one of their citizens, instead of having some of the lowest homicide rates in today's world.
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You miss the philosophical point, which is, the worst of the worst are weeded out and eliminated. Harsh, cruel, inhumane, yeah, call it all of those. Fact remains, if a maniac or miscreant bent on hurting people is eliminated from society through death, everyone benefits.

Of course the idea of universal gun possession is absurd. Never said it was not. Cannot say unequivocably, though, that it's existence would not produce the results mentioned. imp
 
Hmm. No reliable statistics proving that worst of the worst get weeded out. More often, it is the law abiding who are wounded/killed. Psychopaths have no aversion to killing, normal people do. In my country most of us are unarmed, our homicide rate is similar to that of Australia.
 
I was listening to the radio and they had some expert guy who said that USA makes up 4.5% of global population but has 44% of global gun ownership. Amazing statistics.
 
Shalimar said:
Re Switzerland. Guns in the home yes, bullets no. Google it.
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Well, I did:

"Gun politics in Switzerland are unique in Europe. The vast majority of men between the ages of 20 and 30 are conscripted into the militia and undergo military training, including weapons training. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations. However, it is generally not permitted to keep army-issued ammunition, but compatible ammunition purchased for privately owned guns is permitted."

And:

"Switzerland thus has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

imp
 
imp said:
"Switzerland thus has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world"

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

imp
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Gun ownership rates by country:
Switzerland 45.7 per hundred population; USA 88.8 /100; Canada 30.8; NZ 22.6; Australia 15; UK 6.6.

Firearm related death rates 100,000 by country. Includes suicides, accidental fatalities, and justifiable homicides
Switzerland 2.91 per 1000,000; USA 10.64; Canada 2.22; NZ 1.45; Australia 0.86 and UK 0.26.

There are other factors besides the rate of gun ownership but a low ownership rate and lower homicide rates do exhibit a mathematical correspondence.
Switzerland is the statistical anomaly. Some other factor may be operating here.

Still it all boils down to the question - what is more important to you - the freedom to own as many guns as you want or reducing the number of lives lost, deliberately and accidentally, from gunshot ?

For myself, I lean towards action that saves lives, especially the lives of children.
 
My husband bought a gun (don't ask me why) and he had to take a gun ownership/safety/responsibilities course. Then he had to maintain membership at a recognized local gun club, his written application to the RCMP had to have three references, each of whom were phoned and question by the RCMP as to his state of mind and then all the rest of the stuff Shalimar said I guess.


Shalimar said:
Glad you asked Underock. Re gun control. No guns without a background check--two month wait if you are lucky. Even if no impediments, must show just cause to need a weapon. Papers to transport rifle to shooting range required. Very difficult to get a handgun permit. Very limited in what type of handgun permitted, same deal with ammo. We like this, it seems sensible. We are leery of shooting people in our homes. (home invasion.) Unless one can prove a life threatening situation existed, crimes against property is not a viable excuse. We kill the intruder, we go to jail. Of course, very few people are shot by burglers here. Owning guns is seen as a privilege, not a right. Given that our homicide rate continues to fall, I believe our attitude re gun control is obviously a good thing. I recall the surprise exhibited by an American police officer on holiday in Calgary during Stampede week, incensed because he had not been permitted to bring his gun across the border. He was freaked about how to
protect himself on the mean streets of Calgary?????? Different mind set to be sure.
Click to expand...
 
imp said:
You miss the philosophical point, which is, the worst of the worst are weeded out and eliminated. Harsh, cruel, inhumane, yeah, call it all of those. Fact remains, if a maniac or miscreant bent on hurting people is eliminated from society through death, everyone benefits.

Of course the idea of universal gun possession is absurd. Never said it was not. Cannot say unequivocably, though, that it's existence would not produce the results mentioned. imp
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The problem I see with your statement is that it's not just the miscreants and maniacs who are getting weeded out. In some cases, it may be your best and your brightest as well.
 
Warrigal said:
I don't believe that you are all sick at all. I do recognise the role of history and custom as an influence on national thinking. The US was once a post revolutionary society and later a post civil war society. These major historical events have cast long shadows into the present. However, I do not believe that any society need be held hostage to the past when history has clearly moved on.
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Excellent post. I agree with you on that. Not everyone has that kind of grasp of the long arm of history.
 
Being "childish" sometimes loosens the grasp of "feverishness" applied to an unresolvable issue, do you not think? imp
 
Hmm. I embrace irreverence with both hands, it keeps me sane (more or less) in an insane world, but there is a fine line between irreverence and dismissal. The more horrific the situation, the more problematic that division becomes.
 
A tragic and what seems to be an intractable problem. After the massacre of the elementary school children brought no change I doubted any further event would, and they haven't...
 
I believe there have been 4 mass shootings in the UK since 1987. One was in 1996 at a primary school in Scotland. Gun laws are very strict here, as they should be.
 
The trouble with the UK is the "knee-jerk" reaction to any tragedy. There was a mass shooting and immediately all the "do gooders" were shouting "Ban them". So in typical fashion, the government tightened up gun laws and it had virtually no effect except to punish responsible gun owners. The problem is that various atrocities have been carried out by people who, on closer examination, should never have been given a gun licence in the first place. But then, it's easier to punish everyone rather than to seek out the guilty. (This applies to many areas as well as guns)

If somebody went mad with a cricket bat and clubbed a number of people to death, I swear there would be a cry to ban cricket.
 
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If somebody went mad with a cricket bat and clubbed a number of people to death, I swear there would be a cry to ban cricket.
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Something like that did happen over here. A father beat his son to death in the nets at after school cricket practice, in full view of the mother and dozens of other children present.

What happened? Well, cricket hasn't been banned but there is a lot of action finally happening that is designed to support women and children who are subjected to domestic violence.

Some events shock people into taking action that is long over due.
 
I have to be stupid on this question, but do other countries allow hunting for animals? If so, what weapons do they hunt with?
 
QuickSilver said:
Tired old cop out and a load of BS..... I'm not even going to debate this nonsense.. I predicted this was coming in the other thread... I was just wondering who would be the first to puke it out... You win the prize...
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Calm Down QuickSilver.
Calm down.:cool:

Now don't you mince your words there QuickSilver, will you? :D

In fact, if I very nicely may say so, you remind me of a blinkin' gattling gun!
evil-laugh-smiley-emoticon.gif
 

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