Guns- Putting it in perspective in my real world.

BobF · Oct 7, 2015

Warrigal said:
It's not a competition Bob. The US homicide rate is 4.7 per 100.000. The UK rate is 1.0 per 100,000. To me this says that the US is a much more violent society than Britain. Nearly 5 times as many people are intentionally killed in the US than is England, Wales etc. Are you content with this situation? Would you like it to be less violent?

Or are you just feeling smug because Russia is so much worse?

Warrigal, there have been many comments about the US being the worst in the world and I am just trying to put that idea to shame. The US is not the worst in the world or anywhere near so. What is somewhat comforting is that in recent years our problems have been recorded as lowering. I like that over the powerful screeching of some that we are the worst in the world.

Warrigal · Oct 7, 2015

The US is not the only country where the intentional homicide rate is reducing over time. I have no idea why this is happening.

This graph covers the years 2000 - 2011. I selected the countries and you are right, the US is not top of the list.
There are plenty of other countries where the line would be above the US - South Africa, Russia, countries in the Middle East and South America...

I've never said that the US is worst in the world for murder or crime, but you do have a very high rate of mass murder by shooting.
I think this is what people focus on. I think it is something Americans should focus on.

What are you going to do about it?
When might you even think about doing something about it?

BobF · Oct 7, 2015

Gun crime stats have lowered in recent years in spite of the unreal comments that get posted. To me this says we seem to be doing something right.

I don't know where you got your chart so will go with it anyway. I posted the gun stats tables this morning or late yesterday evening. They were reasonably safe to use. Most of the stats on the web are truly OK but still not really reliable as they are open for modification most of the time. But I like the government ones for accuracy and the web selections for their variety and ways of posting data differently than stuffy government controlled outputs.

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?iid=4616&ty=pbdetail

Firearm Violence, 1993-2011 Michael Planty, Ph.D., Jennifer L. Truman, Ph.D.
May 7, 2013 NCJ 241730
Presents trends on the number and rate of fatal and nonfatal firearm violence from 1993 to 2011. The report examines incident and victim demographic characteristics of firearm violence, including the type of firearm used; victim's race, age, and sex; and incident location. The report also examines changes over time in the percentages of nonfatal firearm crimes by injury, reporting to the police, and the use of firearms in self-defense. Information on homicide was obtained primarily from the Centers for Disease Control's (CDC) National Vital Statistics System. Nonfatal firearm violence data are from the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which collects information on nonfatal crimes reported and not reported to the police against persons age 12 or older from a nationally representative sample of U.S. households.
Highlights:

Firearm-related homicides declined 39%, from 18,253 in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011.
Nonfatal firearm crimes declined 69%, from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 victimizations in 2011.
Firearm violence accounted for about 70% of all homicides and less than 10% of all nonfatal violent crime from 1993 to 2011.
From 1993 to 2011, about 70% to 80% of firearm homicides and 90% of nonfatal firearm victimizations were committed with a handgun.
Males, blacks, and persons ages 18 to 24 had the highest rates of firearm homicide from 1993 to 2010.
About 61% of nonfatal firearm violence was reported to the police in 2007-11.

Warrigal · Oct 7, 2015

Bob, I've posted this graph before in another thread.
With it I posted a link to the stats I used to prepare it.

I'll search my posts to try to find the link for you to examine.

Edit - here you are Bob. It was in the People are Violent topic and it looks like I dug down into one of the links that you provided on intentional homicide rates.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_by_decade#2000s

I copied selected data onto a spreadsheet and then constructed the graph. I could not graph all of the data at once because the result was a total jumble - hence the reason for selecting less countries.

WhatInThe · Oct 8, 2015

Bobw235 said:
No doubt the NRA logic there is that the woman should also have a gun to protect herself (he said with his tongue planted firmly in his cheek). Because the only thing that stops a stalker with a gun, is a stalkee with a gun.

Never forget that the NRA first and foremost is a lobbying organization for gun manufacturers. Their job is to do whatever it takes to further the business interests of gun manufacturers.

I keep on hearing the tag line NRA lobbying(among other industries) but is it really the NRA that causes others to go out en mass after a shooting and MASSIVE saturation news coverage and wait in line to buy a gun? Or people really fear there will be no guns to buy. I haven't seen NRA commercials and promotions right after a shooting yet I frequently see stories of gun sale surges to which even Obama commented on. This and others are so called hot button issues are there because they are a raw nerve and if it is hit all heck breaks lose. Same for abortion, drugs, scandals etc. People have a sincere interest in these topics for a reason-they follow them and do have opinions about them. Too much credit is being given to marketing and not enough credit given to the public that is reacting & thinking on their own.

People complain about Big Pharma lobbying which is "a" problem but there are a whole lot of people that want a pill for what ails them, not regime, routine, diet, exercise they want a quick fix. Big Pharma works because they know people want a pill fix, they are not selling a specific drug they are selling cure in a bottle, ez peezeee. If nothing else the NRA knows the public and not just existing gun owners.

Bobw235 · Oct 8, 2015

WhatInThe said:
I keep on hearing the tag line NRA lobbying(among other industries) but is it really the NRA that causes others to go out en mass after a shooting and MASSIVE saturation news coverage and wait in line to buy a gun? Or people really fear there will be no guns to buy. I haven't seen NRA commercials and promotions right after a shooting yet I frequently see stories of gun sale surges to which even Obama commented on. This and others are so called hot button issues are there because they are a raw nerve and if it is hit all heck breaks lose. Same for abortion, drugs, scandals etc. People have a sincere interest in these topics for a reason-they follow them and do have opinions about them. Too much credit is being given to marketing and not enough credit given to the public that is reacting & thinking on their own.

People complain about Big Pharma lobbying which is "a" problem but there are a whole lot of people that want a pill for what ails them, not regime, routine, diet, exercise they want a quick fix. Big Pharma works because they know people want a pill fix, they are not selling a specific drug they are selling cure in a bottle, ez peezeee. If nothing else the NRA knows the public and not just existing gun owners.

I think you make a good point here. My original comment about the NRA is a reaction to what we've seen them do over the years, which is to captitalize on the fear created by such events and to stymie efforts to put restrictions on, or even study guns and the health consequences of loose gun laws. They have in the past attempted to play on the fears that gun sales might be tightened, especially in the wake of such horrible tragedies. I cringe every time I see Wayne Lapierre on the news. But you're right that the NRA reallly does know its target audience, which really is all of us.

QuickSilver · Oct 8, 2015

Personally... I think the shootings and mass murders fill the NRA with glee... It's making more and more people terrified and they are buying guns.. Nothing could be sweeter for the bottom line of their donors... the Gun Industry.

BobF · Oct 8, 2015

Warrigal said:
Bob, I've posted this graph before in another thread.
With it I posted a link to the stats I used to prepare it.

I'll search my posts to try to find the link for you to examine.

Edit - here you are Bob. It was in the People are Violent topic and it looks like I dug down into one of the links that you provided on intentional homicide rates.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_by_decade#2000s

I copied selected data onto a spreadsheet and then constructed the graph. I could not graph all of the data at once because the result was a total jumble - hence the reason for selecting less countries.

OK Warrigal, I prefer stats over graphs if I can find it. That is what I was trying to say in my post. Graphs are fine for a quick overview, but little else.

Warrigal · Oct 8, 2015

They do show a tendency for the rates to be diminishing slightly in a number of countries, not just the US.
Did you notice Japan?

BobF · Oct 8, 2015

Warrigal said:
They do show a tendency for the rates to be diminishing slightly in a number of countries, not just the US.
Did you notice Japan?

No, I did not notice Japan. My interest was in showing how the US was not the worst in the world as too many anti gun folks claim. It just is not so and the rates are slowly falling over the years. The US is doing better and that was my point only.

QuickSilver · Oct 8, 2015

BobF said:
No, I did not notice Japan. My interest was in showing how the US was not the worst in the world as too many anti gun folks claim. It just is not so and the rates are slowly falling over the years. The US is doing better and that was my point only.

Just how many gun deaths would YOU consider to be acceptable Bob?

BobF · Oct 8, 2015

QuickSilver said:
Just how many gun deaths would YOU consider to be acceptable Bob?

Not what I was pointing out. We are not the worst nation in the world and the numbers, rates, are dropping. Isn't that what you are looking forward too?

QuickSilver · Oct 8, 2015

BobF said:
Not what I was pointing out. We are not the worst nation in the world and the numbers, rates, are dropping. Isn't that what you are looking forward too?

So we aren't the worst in your opinion... so what?... do we want to be even 2nd.. or third? or even 10th.. as I asked.. how many deaths are ok..?

Shalimar · Oct 8, 2015

Sometimes thinking about countries other than one's own can be beneficial. It broadens outlook, giving a clearer perspective about things at home and abroad. In an increasingly global society, this can be important.

QuickSilver · Oct 8, 2015

wow... talk about timely. We just had a "CODE SILVER" at work. Everyone was asking what the heck that was... It's means a SHOOTER... So everyone had to lock and barricade the door and turn out the lights and be quiet. Never in my 40 years of working have I ever had that code called.. Fortunately it was only a drill... but still a testimony to the world we live in. How sad

Falcon · Oct 11, 2015

[FONT="color:#002060]Please go all the way down the list for the "bottom line". . .[/FONT][FONT="color:black][/FONT]