Harvey Weinstein - WDYT?

Knight said:
Uh what happened to filing a complaint with the police? And in some cases going to a hospital and having a rape kit done? A choice to be made. Say nothing and make some money or file a complaint and let your talent speak for you. The real victims are the women that were sexually abused, raped after the 1st woman said nothing.
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In a perfect world, it would be that clear cut, in this one it is murky indeed. With rape convictions currently standing at 8 percent, much less in decades past, many women would think twice before preferring charges. Assuming, of course that the police would listen, even now there is a culture among many police/prosecutors, of not taking women seriously in this regard, particularly if

they are beautiful. All rape victims are real victims. No one deserves to be sexually assaulted regardless of whether or not they choose to run the gauntlet of shame in a probably futile attempt to receive justice. As for their talent speaking for itself. Excusez-moi, but that is disingenuous, if Weinstein could command New York Times into silence, what power did he have over

the hiring practices in Hollywood? It is offensive/frustrating in this day and age to hear time and again how women are in some way liable for sexual assault. We are not. I have counseled rape victims of both sexes for decades, the cynical truth

remains, if you want conviction, make sure you are beaten first. Nice eh? Guess who the people are who are least likely to come forward after being raped? Men. They handle it far worse than women.
 

Knight said:
Uh what happened to filing a complaint with the police?
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That's like asking to be brutalized all over again.

A choice to be made. Say nothing and make some money or file a complaint and let your talent speak for you. The real victims are the women that were sexually abused, raped after the 1st woman said nothing.
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The rapist is the only perpetrator here, not the women he previously assaulted. I doubt anyone made as simple a choice as the one you're hypothesizing.
 
Smiling Jane said:
That's like asking to be brutalized all over again.



The rapist is the only perpetrator here, not the women he previously assaulted. I doubt anyone made as simple a choice as the one you're hypothesizing.
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I wonder how a man traumatised by sexual assault would feel about being processed for a rape kit? Not just swabs, which are bad enough, but pics, being handled by strangers who may or may not be of the gender who violated him? Then there are

all the hideous questions.....This question is rhetorical, of course. On numerous occasions I have comforted male rape victims, they react just as strongly as female victims. If anything, their sense of shame tends to be worse.
 

This thread reminds me so much of an ex, I'm starting to get tickled. Before I told him about anything going on in my life, I would go through a ritual where I explained that I wasn't telling him because I needed or wanted his opinion about whether I was right or wrong or what I should have done, nor did I need for him to solve the problem for me. It took all of that for him to get out of Father Knows Best mode, and then we could talk. He would often backslide during the course of the conversation, but I would remind him and he would get back on track. Oddly enough, he was always mightily upset when I didn't tell him everything because sometimes I didn't feel like going through the ritual.
 
Here, to get a rape conviction, it pretty much has to happen on the sidewalk outside of City Hall, at high noon on a weekday, be witnessed by at least 100 people, and the victim must be a virgin with absolutely no previous history who was walking to church. It also helps if the victim was battered half to death in the process, or better yet, stabbed a couple times.
 
Butterfly said:
Here, to get a rape conviction, it pretty much has to happen on the sidewalk outside of City Hall, at high noon on a weekday, be witnessed by at least 100 people, and the victim must be a virgin with absolutely no previous history who was walking to church. It also helps if the victim was battered half to death in the process, or better yet, stabbed a couple times.
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It helps even more if she's the daughter of someone with some clout. It's also a good thing if it wasn't a cop who raped her.
 
Smiling Jane said:
It helps even more if she's the daughter of someone with some clout. It's also a good thing if it wasn't a cop who raped her.
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I recall the story of a Canadian woman who stated she was raped by some Parisian cops who lured her back to their station. Her father, who was a Canadian policeman, travelled to Paris and the cops were charged. I don't know if they were convicted.
 
Nothing new in that insight. Read Greer's Female Eunuch and you will read her observation that a rape complaint is only likely to succeed in a conviction if there is a trail of blood and semen leading directly from the victim to the rapist. An even then there must be evidence of battery, otherwise consent is assumed.
 
This is a financial cost to this kind of behaviour, but the cost is falling on his company, the staff and investors.

The financial and production communities are following the fast-moving developments with a mix of shock, dismay and bafflement. Clarity is definitely in short supply. “Waiting to see what the future is going to look like over there,” said one producer who is in business with TWC. “We don’t know yet who knew what when and I assume that’s going to impact everything.”

An employee of TWC reached by Deadline would not speak on the record, but described an office environment where already flagging morale has curdled into anger at Weinstein for acting without a thought to the consequences for the many troops charged with executing his vision. The growing consensus is that job security is tenuous at best.
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Full ramifications here: http://deadline.com/2017/10/the-wei...as-agencies-cut-off-talent-supply-1202187269/
 
Cap'nSacto said:
Falcon, looks like what happened in the thread is some posters thought you were addressing the issue when you were specifically addressing HootnAnnie.
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You are correct. That's exactly what happened. WHAT A WASTE OF TIME

What an idiotic way to spend time on the computer.

I'v e better things to do than argue with a pot stirrer.
 
Reading the other posts since my last one, I didn't know that reporting sexual assault is useless & rape kits mean nothing. Do nothing doesn't seem like a good message for women to follow but the posts showing me my thinking is based on what I thought would be the right thing to do must be wrong. Live & learn I guess
 
Knight said:
Reading the other posts since my last one, I didn't know that reporting sexual assault is useless & rape kits mean nothing. Do nothing doesn't seem like a good message for women to follow but the posts showing me my thinking is based on what I thought would be the right thing to do must be wrong. Live & learn I guess
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I volunteered at a rape crisis center for a few years. We were trained to support the people who came to us as they went through the process. We gave them the information they needed, and then it was up to them to decide how they chose to deal with it. The decisions were not ours to make, which is as it should be.
 
I'm on multiple senior social sites. and what I find disappointing (but not surprising) is the number of folks who implicitly or explicitly defend Weinstein. Most boil down to blaming the victim.

"Everyone knew it" - well, no, not everyone did. The people in a position of power who knew should have interceded a long time ago. But the victims typically did not know what was in store for them. Also, I do not believe that President Obama knew, and would not have accepted the donations if he knew. Hillary, not so much.
"Why didn't they speak up when it happened" - Some did, some didn't, but those who did were not believed or were otherwise discredited. How many of us would be willing to be the first to speak up against such a powerful man? Think of Bill Cosby's victims, or even worse, Jerry Sandusky (Penn State).
"Quid pro Quo: - sex for a role. Of course some of this happens. A certain group of women have always been willing to prostitute themselves (I'm not passing judgment on those women). But not all women are willing to make that trade, and is it okay with you that it is a job requirement?
"Casting Couch" or as it is called in the UK "The Producer's cut" "is just part of the business" - This is just another way of saying {shrug} business as usual, quid pro quo.
"Should have filled charges/rape kits/etc" - Again, you go first. And since they were not all rapes, but other forms of sexual misconduct, that is not often a solution.

I've also noticed that folks who live in California are automatically experts in the movie industry. Who knew?

And as a caveat, if I didn't offend you by this post, I apologize, and will get around to you later.
 
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Knight said:
Reading the other posts since my last one, I didn't know that reporting sexual assault is useless & rape kits mean nothing. Do nothing doesn't seem like a good message for women to follow but the posts showing me my thinking is based on what I thought would be the right thing to do must be wrong. Live & learn I guess
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Don't feel bad. I was brought up to think exactly like you by my mother but neither of us knew then what I've learned since. I still hope that I would have found the courage to resist and complain but I have never been put to the test. Few males have either.
 
Another thing we haven't mentioned is that when a rape or sexual assault is reported, the police take the victim into a room where there are stacks of books containing mug shots of people (some of whom are likely to be known to the victim) who have been arrested for rape or sexual assult. The rape or sexual assault victim is expected to go through all of the mug shots and pick out the perpetrator.

If that doesn't make a victim feel all warm and fuzzy and safe right after a rape or sexual assault, nothing will.
 
Hoot N Annie said:
I'm on multiple senior social sites. and what I find disappointing (but not surprising) is the number of folks who implicitly or explicitly defend Weinstein. Most boil down to blaming the victim.

"Everyone knew it" - well, no, not everyone did. The people in a position of power who knew should have interceded a long time ago. But the victims typically did not know what was in store for them. Also, I do not believe that President Obama knew, and would not have accepted the donations if he knew. Hillary, not so much.
"Why didn't they speak up when it happened" - Some did, some didn't, but those who did were not believed or were otherwise discredited. How many of us would be willing to be the first to speak up against such a powerful man? Think of Bill Cosby's victims, or even worse, Jerry Sandusky (Penn State).
"Quid pro Quo: - sex for a role. Of course some of this happens. A certain group of women have always been willing to prostitute themselves (I'm not passing judgment on those women). But not all women are willing to make that trade, and is it okay with you that it is a job requirement?
"Casting Couch" or as it is called in the UK "The Producer's cut" "is just part of the business" - This is just another way of saying {shrug} business as usual, quid pro quo.
"Should have filled charges/rape kits/etc" - Again, you go first. And since they were not all rapes, but other forms of sexual misconduct, that is not often a solution.

I've also noticed that folks who live in California are automatically experts in the movie industry. Who knew?

And as a caveat, if I didn't offend you by this post, I apologize, and will get around to you later.
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Hoot, satire becomes you! Seriously, I yearn for a day when all people view sexual assault as you do. It will be a victory for everyone.
 
Knight said:
Reading the other posts since my last one, I didn't know that reporting sexual assault is useless & rape kits mean nothing. Do nothing doesn't seem like a good message for women to follow but the posts showing me my thinking is based on what I thought would be the right thing to do must be wrong. Live & learn I guess
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We all have misconceptions of one kind or another. The fact that you are open and honest enough to recognise and tackle yours is all that can be required of any decent human being. I salute you.
 
Weinstein is a miserable slob. Blaming the victim is not appropriate. However, I think we have to understand that the "casting couch" goes both ways.
 
Shalimar said:
We all have misconceptions of one kind or another. The fact that you are open and honest enough to recognise and tackle yours is all that can be required of any decent human being. I salute you.
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Thank you. I was taking this from my perspective of what I would do to be able to sleep at night with a clear conscious.


I took the time to look for how this came to light.
http://abcnews.go.com/entertainment/yorkers-explosive-expose-harvey-weinstein/story?id=50399286


I have a new understanding of the fear those women faced and am grateful my wife in her years in the workforce never had to endure that kind of fear. I do know my wife would not have put up with any sexual misconduct. Thankfully her job as a well paid maintenance mechanic in a major manufacturing company didn't put her in that position. The entertainment industry has for years been know for the "casting couch" hopefully with this revelation that will go away.
 
Knight said:
Originally Posted by Cap'nSacto Please keep in mind that (according to latest news) when women who Weinstien victimized did come forward to complain, they were completely ignored. There was no one within the industry to complain to who would respond or take any action except to coerce the women into signing "hush contracts" - under threat, not only to them, in some cases, but also any family member who worked in the industry in some capacity - and then paying them. And not all of his victims took the check.

Knight wrote:
"Uh what happened to filing a complaint with the police? And in some cases going to a hospital and having a rape kit done? A choice to be made. Say nothing and make some money or file a complaint and let your talent speak for you. The real victims are the women that were sexually abused, raped after the 1st woman said nothing."
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I don't have a great insight into all that has gone on so far as this man goes, but I did witness a difficult situation arise and luckily dissipate during my work at a large company. A manager who was married with children, "took an interest" in a very naïve sixteen year old, and there was a feeling amongst the other staff that he was taking advantage of his position in order to take advantage of her to some extent.

The hierarchy at the top of the company were informed as to what was going on, and chose not to intervene, and in the end the girl herself ended the "friendship" (the manager concerned had a reputation for "enjoying a highly varied sex life", a reputation he was happy to enhance himself).

I'm aware this is nothing like what has gone on in Hollywood over many years with this famous producer, and I doubt most of the women there were as naïve as the girl I'm trying to describe, but in a small way it shows both how a vulnerable girl can be "made a fool of", or make a fool of herself, and how those in authority maybe do choose to turn a blind eye, even when a fair proportion of the staff are aware of what went on and were upset by it.
 
I hope this is the begining of the end for the seedy side of Hollywood.
So many portray themselves as feminists but demean women who have an opinion different from them.
They speak out about guns but make violent movies glorifying gun violence.
It's a culture of drugs and that part of the culture is the demand that brings the supply into our country. Do you think when they're snorting a line of coke they're thinking about the 13 yr old that's being introduced through that shipment?
Do you think Harvey Weinstein gives one crap about the young women he assaulted? No and neither do most of the women cashing their enormous paychecks.
I hope the people that are part of Hollywood/entertainment/politics take a stand and be part of the solution instead of most of the problem. I know there are some who are real.
 
hearlady said:
I hope this is the begining of the end for the seedy side of Hollywood.
So many portray themselves as feminists but demean women who have an opinion different from them.
They speak out about guns but make violent movies glorifying gun violence.
It's a culture of drugs and that part of the culture is the demand that brings the supply into our country. Do you think when they're snorting a line of coke they're thinking about the 13 yr old that's being introduced through that shipment?
Do you think Harvey Weinstein gives one crap about the young women he assaulted? No and neither do most of the women cashing their enormous paychecks.
I hope the people that are part of Hollywood/entertainment/politics take a stand and be part of the solution instead of most of the problem. I know there are some who are real.
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I seriously doubt this will change anything. Whether it is the Hollywood crowd or the pols now saying, "I am SHOCKED......SHOCKED I say" - they're all phonies. They knew what he was and accepted his jobs and campaign contributions while looking the other way.
 
You cannot legislate decency. IOW, more laws won't fix this. Only condemnation by one's peers will discourage indecent behavior and as long as there is a pay off, it will be overlooked by many.
 

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