House votes to defund Planned Parenthood 241-187

[Grumpy Ol' Man]

I'm curious as to just how exactly this works, it seems to me that we(as prospective SS recipients) would want more young contributors to the SS system so as to keep the fund solvent.
I don't understand how young folks dying prematurely can possibly help SS. Plus, any savings that young people might possess is their own assets, and would simply belong to their designated heirs.

I'm assuming he meant that the elder generation pass earlier. IOW, if you start drawing SS at age 66 and live until 96.... you've drawn a lot more than you put in. OTOH, if you start drawing at 66 and pass as 67 you've used very little of what you contributed. But, that's not the entire story.
We, as a Nation, are living longer. The life expectancy is going up every year. So, we are apt to use more than what we contributed to the system. To keep the system solvent, we either need to raise the full retirement age or lower the benefit amount. Since we are living longer and remaining in fairly good health, let's move the full retirement age to 70. Most can start drawing limited benefits at 62. Move that to 65. Those two moves would make a world of difference in keeping the SS system operating in the black.

 

[QuickSilver]

I'm assuming he meant that the elder generation pass earlier. IOW, if you start drawing SS at age 66 and live until 96.... you've drawn a lot more than you put in. OTOH, if you start drawing at 66 and pass as 67 you've used very little of what you contributed. But, that's not the entire story.
We, as a Nation, are living longer. The life expectancy is going up every year. So, we are apt to use more than what we contributed to the system. To keep the system solvent, we either need to raise the full retirement age or lower the benefit amount. Since we are living longer and remaining in fairly good health, let's move the full retirement age to 70. Most can start drawing limited benefits at 62. Move that to 65. Those two moves would make a world of difference in keeping the SS system operating in the black.

Not to the guy who has been doing construction work, or a steelworker or bricklayer. Bodies don't stand that kind of abuse at 70.. They would be forced to take an early retirement and therefore less money. The only way to fix SS is to raise the cap on FICA contributions from $117,000 to $250,000 or perhaps $500.00. It's not fair that people making $117,000 a year or less are paying FICA on virtually all their income, while a multi-millionaire pays on only a very small percentage.

 

[BobF]

No need for a construction type to continue to do the same work for ever. It is the 10 best years of your working history that counts to set the basis for your life long take out from the SS funds. A construction worker could check his 10 best years and then go to some other job, not so strenuous, to finish working his older years out.

 

[QuickSilver]

No need for a construction type to continue to do the same work for ever. It is the 10 best years of your working history that counts to set the basis for your life long take out from the SS funds. A construction worker could check his 10 best years and then go to some other job, not so strenuous, to finish working his older years out.

Of course he could bob... because jobs are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy to come by.. Especially for older workers.

 

[BobF]

Of course he could bob... because jobs are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easy to come by.. Especially for older workers.

They certainly are easy to find if you are not longer looking for the best income of your life. From construction jobs to grocery helpers, or parking lot attendants, or what ever, as you are no longer damaging your already shown to be your best 10 years of income to establish your SS take home for life numbers.

Or maybe even in construction but now a land level type of job. A shovel jockey around cleanup projects.

 

[QuickSilver]

I don't know very many people who are able to cut down from a good paying income to minimum wage at age 62.. Some of us still have obligations to finish.. Lucky for you Bob that you are in a good position to be able to live on $7.25 an hour from 62 to 70 when SS would kick in.


So what is wrong with the plan to increase FICA withholdings from the cap of $117,000 to $250,00? That would insure SS remain solvent forever.. No reason to force people to work until 70.

 

[BobF]

I had no choice at the time as I was laid of at the age of 60. I did find temp jobs for a few months at a time. I also finished paying off my house mortgage using my part time work and savings to do so. There are ways to work, like them or not. I ended up working for one of the worlds large merchandise companies. A bit of a change from machine design and leadership positions and income for sure. Eventually I tried to do Real Estate but was not good at getting the pen out and signing contracts so after 10 years of that with part time jobs too, I finally said good by to jobs and ended my working days on early SS at 62 and then restarted my working efforts which continued for about 10 more years. After getting my debts paid I became a volunteer alongside my paying part time jobs and held a position in our state run travel office and also as a volunteer to go into the mountains and walk through the ancient Native American ruins sites. Taking notes and pictures that I would then send to the federal agency responsible for the site. I never really stopped wanting to do things.

This person you speak of can work at lessor jobs and still pay down his debts. We all should be able to see our years ending and pay down our debt. I was a bit short but managed to survive anyway.

 

[QuickSilver]

I find it sad that the average American, the one who worked hard all his life and paid his bills, is always the one asked to make do with less, or alter his lifestyle in order to survive.. while the wealthy and large corporations are never asked to sacrifice in the least. It's a very sad state we find ourselves in.

 

[BobF]

I find it sad that the average American, the one who worked hard all his life and paid his bills, is always the one asked to make do with less, or alter his lifestyle in order to survive.. while the wealthy and large corporations are never asked to sacrifice in the least. It's a very sad state we find ourselves in.

I see nothing wrong with folks having to change their careers or lifestyles in order to keep shelter, have foods, and keep healthy. Aging does cause us to change our ways of working and living.

How many of our billionaires were always so rich. Some came from near nothing and worked their way to the higher levels of income. One never even finished college as he saw an opportunity to go for the big money. Ever hear of the guy that built Micro Soft? Bill Gates for example. It can be done, and is done by many who come from little and grow it into plenty.

 

[QuickSilver]

Why do people on the Right, who ARE average Joes always come to the defense of the billionaires who are rigging the system and moving more and more money to the top at the expense of the middle class.. For every Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs.. there are hundreds of members of the lucky sperm club sitting around the pool and collecting a check.. and STILL complaining about paying taxes... I call big time Tough cookies... They need to pay up.

 

[Butterfly]

Since when can you, of all people, judge my comment to be incorrect?

Yeah, but they have to hide it from their husbands, who want to keep women pregnant and barefoot.

 

[Butterfly]

Bob, birth control pills cost about 50 dollars a month and don't need a prescription. Today, on Face The Nation, Hillary Clinton says she is rolling out a proposal this week for lowering the cost of prescription drugs.

Back in the day, when I was using them, birth control pills DID need a prescription. They still do here in New Mexico. Are you sure of your facts when you say they don't need a prescription? Where?

 

[QuickSilver]

Fortunately, I've never been involved with a man that wanted me "barefoot and pregnant"... I've always been out there slogging it out bringing home the bacon..

 

[QuickSilver]

Back in the day, when I was using them, birth control pills DID need a prescription. They still do here in New Mexico. Are you sure of your facts when you say they don't need a prescription? Where?

They still do require prescriptions and exams..... everywhere... It's only the emergency birth control... like the "Plan B" that can be bought over the counter.. those are for major contraception fails, like broken condoms.

 

[Butterfly]

Interesting that at one time the poor would be taken care of in doctors offices and hospitals and then they would be asked to pay. If unable the charges could be reduced or forgiven and the patients were cleared of debt. I know this worked right up to the beginning of the Obama care, but don't know if those days and forgiveness still operate. Anywhere or anytime. It did happen and low income folks were often found in the hospital emergency rooms where these meetings took place.

What planet do you live on? This certainly has never been true here, at least not since the early 50s. Doctors and hospitals hound patients for payment, unless they are on medicaid, etc. It may come as a surprise to you that in the real world, patients often forego needed car because they cannot pay. AND doctors and hospitals are in business to make a living, just like the rest of us. They don't hand out their services for free right and left, any more than you an you can go into Wal-Mart and expect to gt things for free because you cant pay. Geez!

And hospital emergency rooms are required to give care to indigent people without charge only for life or limb threatening conditions, or infectious diseases that threaten the public health.

 

[Lara]

Back in the day, when I was using them, birth control pills DID need a prescription. They still do here in New Mexico. Are you sure of your facts when you say they don't need a prescription? Where?

There are many forms of birth control (like emergency birth control, morning after pill) and some do not need a prescription...but pills do. When I saw an ad for birth control in a bottle that said, "does not need a prescription", I was assuming it was a bottle of pills. http://contraception.about.com/od/pillquestions/f/Buy-Birth-Control-Over-The-Counter.htm

This link from USA Today says, "California and Oregon will allow for over the counter birth control pills without a prescription":
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...irth-control-without-a-prescription/29990205/

 

[BobF]

I believe I included the emergency room in my post. That is where they are required to take care of you first and then attempt to get paid. That is where free comes from and if fixed and unable to pay then the cost is handled some other way. That was the way it was prior to Obama care. I don't have any idea how it is handled these days. The wife and I have used the emergency room often for our illnesses that often come on weekends. Not going to wait till sometime next week for a doctor to be open. We always pay but looking around the entry room there are many others that may not be able to pay - and should not have too if actually broke. At least they will get a doctor to check them out before they are fixed and then told to leave.

And help for the poor is around elsewhere than the hospital emergency room.

 

[QuickSilver]

Bob.. do you have any idea how expensive a visit to the ER is? And it's certainly NOT free. Hospitals BILL people and will send them to collection if they cannot pay. Nice way to lose your house and your savings.. or be forced into bankruptcy. If they absolutely cannot pay, the cost is shifted on to everyone else. The Emergency room is the LAST place someone should go for routine illnesses... and only if they are literally dying... It's a HORRIBLE healthcare plan.

 

[Jackie22]

Planned Parenthood Set To Sue The Criminals Behind Edited Video Smears Planned Parenthood is planning swift retribution against the perpetrators of the deplorable and illegal smear campaign that has been leveled against the vital women’s health non-profit by far-right wing anti-abortion extremists. The Center for Medical Progress, which does not employ any medical professionals, arranged a vast fraud by creating a fake biomedical company in order to attempt to “purchase” fetal tissues, secretly recording interviews with Planned Parenthood officials and then editing the footage to mislead and misrepresent the discussion that actually took place. Planned Parenthood Executive Vice President Dawn Laguens told The Hill that her organization is set to take action against the CMP: “I absolutely do believe that they have violated laws in terms of how they secured these videos… But the fraud is also in how they have presented them and in the editing.”Several of the videos were recorded in California, where it is illegal to record a conversation without the consent of both parties. Thirteen states have squandered countless tax dollars on “investigating” Planned Parenthood. Not a single one has uncovered any sort of questionable conduct or misuse of materials. The fetal tissue extracted from aborted fetuses is used in critical medical research, attempting to cure deadly diseases like HIV/AIDS. The right-wing’s vicious smear campaign against women’s rights and healthcare will ultimately amount to naught. President Obama has already threatened to take action against states that cut Medicaid funds to Planned Parenthood, which are not used for abortions in anyway. Senate Democrats have already stymied one attempt to cut the group’s federal funding entirely. The polls show that Planned Parenthood is more popular among Americans than every single Republican candidate for president. The American people recognize the incredible work that Planned Parenthood does across the world. The non-profit deserves much better than to be besmirched by religious zealots. http://linkis.com/occupydemocrats.com/wJzKi http://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...reatens-legal-action-against-makers-of-videos

Here is more on this.....seems the defendants want to use the fifth amendment in this lawsuit..lol, after spreading their lies around left and right....anyway, the judge ruled against it...I hope they throw the book at them.

http://feminist.org/blog/index.php/...les-anti-abortion-group-cant-plead-the-fifth/

 

[QuickSilver]

Here is more on this.....seems the defendants want to use the fifth amendment in this lawsuit..lol, after spreading their lies around left and right....anyway, the judge ruled against it...I hope they throw the book at them.

http://feminist.org/blog/index.php/...les-anti-abortion-group-cant-plead-the-fifth/

You and me both.. I am so sick of the Right manufacturing and doctoring videos. How many have there been now? First with ACORN.. totally false and doctored yet the GOP managed to shut them down.. then all the videos about the President.. now this.. What's sad is people are actually taken in by this. These people need to go to jail for this.

 

[BobF]

Bob.. do you have any idea how expensive a visit to the ER is? And it's certainly NOT free. Hospitals BILL people and will send them to collection if they cannot pay. Nice way to lose your house and your savings.. or be forced into bankruptcy. If they absolutely cannot pay, the cost is shifted on to everyone else. The Emergency room is the LAST place someone should go for routine illnesses... and only if they are literally dying... It's a HORRIBLE healthcare plan.

Yes, I know all about Emergency Rooms and have often seen the legal requirements for ER's to first take care of the patients and then check for insurance or means to pay. So I looked for some information about this and found a section on US Legal requirements.

https://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Legislation/EMTALA/index.html

Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA)

In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Section 1867 of the Social Security Act imposes specific obligations on Medicare-participating hospitals that offer emergency services to provide a medical screening examination (MSE) when a request is made for examination or treatment for an emergency medical condition (EMC), including active labor, regardless of an individual's ability to pay. Hospitals are then required to provide stabilizing treatment for patients with EMCs. If a hospital is unable to stabilize a patient within its capability, or if the patient requests, an appropriate transfer should be implemented.

 

[QuickSilver]

Yes, I know all about Emergency Rooms and have often seen the legal requirements for ER's to first take care of the patients and then check for insurance or means to pay. So I looked for some information about this and found a section on US Legal requirements.

https://www.cms.gov/Regulations-and-Guidance/Legislation/EMTALA/index.html

Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA)

In 1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Section 1867 of the Social Security Act imposes specific obligations on Medicare-participating hospitals that offer emergency services to provide a medical screening examination (MSE) when a request is made for examination or treatment for an emergency medical condition (EMC), including active labor, regardless of an individual's ability to pay. Hospitals are then required to provide stabilizing treatment for patients with EMCs. If a hospital is unable to stabilize a patient within its capability, or if the patient requests, an appropriate transfer should be implemented.

I am well familiar with EMTALA... It simply means critically ill patients, regardless of their insurance status, must be stabilized and not dumped on other facilities. It does NOT mean that ERs are meant to be used as doctors' office. It also doesn't mean that the patient is NOT charged for his treatment Bob.. They are Billed.. or the family is billed.. and if they cannot pay? They get sent to collections, or taken to court for a judgment against them, property taken or wages garnished. Most are forced into bankruptcy... The cost of caring for them is then added to our bills.. Do you really believe the EMTALA means hospitals cannot charge to treat uninsured people.. what dream world are you living in? Many people return home from the hospital to find $100,000 bills in their mailboxes..

 

[BobF]

The words are to treat ALL prior to making any decisions. And that is how hospitals can and do perform if they have a public accessed emergency ward. Many folks to use this avenue for quick service and it is often posted as a way to get service. What you are saying does not work if the hospital is working per the words on the agreement. Fixed first, than challenged for personal knowledge and ability to pay. No price list given to the patients as they enter the area. First they get met by medics to check them out. Then the hospital staff can make choices available to the patients. Who pays for what is already done if the patients have no money? Will the hospital toss them out if it has been discovered to be a more major issue, like appendix? Not likely. And who will pay that surgery bill? We don't yet know, but the patient is still in the system and will get taken care of. Now the costs are rising so what will the hospital likely do? Certainly not a law suite as that is even more expenses to the hospital. Likely will turn to the charity groups that are there to help the very poor folks and get some of their cost paid for.

It is not just a lot of hard headed folks running a hospital. I have seen this operation in several states I have lived in. And the laws support the helping the poor folks to get medical help. Right through the hospitals emergency rooms.

 

[QuickSilver]

The words are to treat ALL prior to making any decisions. And that is how hospitals can and do perform if they have a public accessed emergency ward. Many folks to use this avenue for quick service and it is often posted as a way to get service. What you are saying does not work if the hospital is working per the words on the agreement. Fixed first, than challenged for personal knowledge and ability to pay. No price list given to the patients as they enter the area. First they get met by medics to check them out. Then the hospital staff can make choices available to the patients. Who pays for what is already done if the patients have no money? Will the hospital toss them out if it has been discovered to be a more major issue, like appendix? Not likely. And who will pay that surgery bill? We don't yet know, but the patient is still in the system and will get taken care of. Now the costs are rising so what will the hospital likely do? Certainly not a law suite as that is even more expenses to the hospital. Likely will turn to the charity groups that are there to help the very poor folks and get some of their cost paid for.

It is not just a lot of hard headed folks running a hospital. I have seen this operation in several states I have lived in. And the laws support the helping the poor folks to get medical help. Right through the hospitals emergency rooms.

And right to the Collections agency... Bob.. I've worked in hospitals for 35 years... Yes.. they DO write off bills of the truly indigent...in order to keep their not for profit status they have to write off a percentage of bad debt.. but then pass the cost on to the next patient... Hospitals couldn't stay open if they didn't.

However.. if you have ANYTHING... anything at all.. a small savings... a job... You will be hounded until you die for the money.. your wages will be garnished and you will be forced to file medical bankruptcy. This is NOT a healthcare system to be proud of... Thank GOD for Obamacare and people now being able to afford some kind of coverage.. So they are not afraid to see a doc.. or to go to ER in an emergency.

 

[BobF]

And right to the Collections agency... Bob.. I've worked in hospitals for 35 years... Yes.. they DO write off bills of the truly indigent...in order to keep their not for profit status they have to write off a percentage of bad debt.. but then pass the cost on to the next patient... Hospitals couldn't stay open if they didn't.

However.. if you have ANYTHING... anything at all.. a small savings... a job... You will be hounded until you die for the money.. your wages will be garnished and you will be forced to file medical bankruptcy. This is NOT a healthcare system to be proud of... Thank GOD for Obamacare and people now being able to afford some kind of coverage.. So they are not afraid to see a doc.. or to go to ER in an emergency.

Well, finally you have come around to what I have been saying. They treat you first than ask for financing or what ever. That is what I have been saying and this has been said on TV for all to hear. It is no secret at all. People who are short of means are told to take the emergency room approach. Often they get reduced charges that they can afford or they get free services. Just like the law says. Fix first then find out if they can pay or not.