Serenity4321
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
I think at a minimum we owe everyone understanding and compassion. I keep thinking of the phrase..But for the grace of God..... 
How much do we owe each other ?
- Thread starter fuzzybuddy
- Start date
Murrmurr
SF VIP
- Location
- Sacramento, California
Here's Soledad Ursua of the Venice Neighborhood Council actually exposing the whole thing.
interesting but somehow those involved are NOT held accountable .... If people WANT to fix then consultants/ and groups need to DONATE their time to solve these issues not earn six figures .... overseeing these type projects.
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Murrmurr
SF VIP
- Location
- Sacramento, California
That's true. Most are even re-elected and/or assigned to more committees and stuff, and just keep making more money.
Packerjohn
Packerjohn
- Location
- Canada
People who want to better understand present America should read the book I finished 2 days ago. It is called, "America, The Farewell Tour" by Chris Hedges. It does a lot to explain how the US changed from an industrial power house with good jobs giving good wages to a nation where most manufacturing is now done in Mexico and China and the wages have fallen way down; if you are lucky to have a job at all. Thanks to that NAFTA; North American Free Trade Association.
There is a lot of very eye opening information in this book:
1. General Motors in Anderson, Indiana, 50 miles from Indianapolis used to employee more than 25,000 workers. GM left to 2006 and moved to Mexico where people work for $3/hour.
2. Gambling brings in more money in the US than the entire music and movie industries. Chew that one around for a while. The chapter on gambling goes into great detail on the Taj Mahal Casino built by Donald Trump in Atlantic City that cost 1.2 billion dollars to build. Americans in 2016 lost $116.9 billion gambling.
There is a lot of very eye opening information in this book:
1. General Motors in Anderson, Indiana, 50 miles from Indianapolis used to employee more than 25,000 workers. GM left to 2006 and moved to Mexico where people work for $3/hour.
2. Gambling brings in more money in the US than the entire music and movie industries. Chew that one around for a while. The chapter on gambling goes into great detail on the Taj Mahal Casino built by Donald Trump in Atlantic City that cost 1.2 billion dollars to build. Americans in 2016 lost $116.9 billion gambling.
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old medic
Senior Member
- Location
- Western NC
I owe you nothing but the respect you deserve... and thats all I expect from anyone... I'm owed no more or no less..
We have way to many pieces of shit walking around expecting the world to give them everything, and have no desire to put effort into getting it.
Irwin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Kind of makes you wonder how many lives have been ruined by the gambling industry, yet they can advertise freely as if it's a legitimate industry.
JaniceM
Well-known Member
- Location
- still lost between two shores..
And guessing it will be even worse, now that sports betting has become legal in some places.
It's like anything else- constantly advertising on t.v., and even having ads on the sides of the city buses.
Mr. Ed
Be what you is not what you what you ain’t
- Location
- Central NY
Nowadays I don’t get involved with causes or commitments to save the world or fellow man/woman. People manage life the best they are able with or without assistance.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I've been thinking about this question and I want to subvert it a little by asking "how much do I owe to other people?" Obviously this is a very big and very personal question and everyone will have different thoughts about it. I'm going to try to be general but with examples.
Looking back on my life I have much to be grateful for and although never wealthy I have been privileged in many ways.
I was selected as a child to receive an excellent education in the public school system. Because of this I was able to win a scholarship to university and became a teacher. I owed it to my students to give them the best teaching I could so that they might have the similar opportunities. The community at large owed the children too and the way they fulfilled their obligation is through taxation to pay the costs of public education.
Today is Australia Day (or if you prefer, Invasion Day) and it is customary to award honours to people for their service to the country in various ways. Last night I listened to the stories of many of the recipients and was very impressed by a young doctor who has seen the need for homeless people to access medical treatment. He has put together a team of doctors who also see a need and they take medical treatment to the homeless where they live, on the street. They are all volunteers and in my opinion we owe them, not just recognition, but also funding to sustain this project. I know of another charity where homeless and unemployed people can access free dental treatment and haircuts. The same charity offers literacy classes for adults and reading help for children.
When people are treated as valuable human beings it makes a huge difference to the way they see themselves. They take pride in themselves and in their surroundings and they start to help and support each other. Perhaps the trash filled streets are a symptom of a neighbourhood where a lot of people have given up. Perhaps what we owe them is support and encouragement to recover their self esteem and hope. We owe them a pathway to a better life. We owe the children a good education and work to follow. Some of this should be funded by taxation but a lot of it can be brought about through the work of volunteer organisations. I have never begrudged paying my taxes. I have been a volunteer with youth groups and served on committees running child care centres. This is my way of repaying the support and help I have received all my life. That is what I owe to other people who have been less fortunate.
As I said, everyone's answer to the problem will be different. I am interested in all of the responses.
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Irwin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
Before any of you watch that video, here's a bit about the YouTube channel and "news" outlet, the Epoch Times:
The Epoch Times is a far-right international multi-language newspaper and media company affiliated with the Falun Gong new religious movement. The newspaper, based in New York City, is part of the Epoch Media Group, which also operates New Tang Dynasty (NTD) Television.
The Epoch Times opposes the Chinese Communist Party, promotes far-right politicians in Europe, and has championed President Donald Trump in the U.S.; a 2019 report by NBC News showed it to be the second-largest funder of pro-Trump Facebook advertising after the Trump campaign. The Epoch Media Group's news sites and YouTube channels have spread conspiracy theories such as QAnon and anti-vaccine misinformation. In 2020, The New York Times called it a "global-scale misinformation machine". The Epoch Times frequently promotes other Falun Gong affiliated groups, such as the performing arts company Shen Yun.
Nathan
SF VIP
- Location
- High Desert- Calif.
Well said, Warrigal, this is the crux of the matter:
Murrmurr
SF VIP
- Location
- Sacramento, California
Doesn't change the facts, though. And the facts are public record and accessible.
I have to chuckle when some news story is considered bunk when, say, Fox reports it, and then it's A-OK when CNN or The Talk does. When a bit of research shows me a story checks out, it doesn't matter to me where I first heard it.
Knight
Well-known Member
Gambling is a choice that is part of history. Not sure what would happen to 422,842 Casino Hotels Employees in the US in 2022 if brick & mortar casinos were to close. Toss in all the jobs[like advertising]that supply goods & services to those 422,842 & the streets most likely have more homeless people.
Ever thoughtful online gambling was/is available to ease the boredom on staying home during covid cautionary times. <---- ever thoughtful is me being sarcastic
Casino Hotels in the US - Employment Statistics 2002–2027
Updated: August 23, 2021
422,842 Casino Hotels Employees in the US in 2022
15.6% Casino Hotels in the US Employment Growth in 2022
0.1% Casino Hotels in the US Annualized Employment Growth 2017–2022
Remy
Well-known Member
- Location
- California, USA
I'm going to go off topic but what about our elected officials and government. Clearly, they don't care about the people. In my area, with all the fires, nothing is being built but stand alone houses and apartments. How about some condos for people to buy, senior mobile home parks, tiny house community? Not a damn thing like that.
ElCastor
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern CA
We have a curious problem in California, a conundrum of good will and generosity. Back in the day the mentally ill, many of whom were alcohol and drug addicted were confined to mental hospitals -- Napa, Agnews, Camarillo, Patterson, and others (possibly the origin of the Eagles song, Hotel California). The lawyers and well meaning politicians stepped in and those facilities were closed. The inmates were moved to residential boarding houses in the cities -- so called halfway houses where they could live and receive treatment. Sounds wonderful, but it didn't work. Inmates departed for life in the alleys and parks where they could live without rules. My-son-in-law was a San Francisco cop who patrolled Market Street, one of the main drags. He was equipped with free housing vouchers to give to the homeless and drug addicted, but literally could not give them away. Small kiosk bathrooms were placed around the city. Didn't work, they became tiny apartments, were used for drug deals, etc. Today in parts of the city the sidewalks are littered with turds, and the homeless, mentally ill, and drug addicted have found a new way to make a living ...
"San Francisco Sees 3,000 Car Break-Ins in 1 Month; ‘It’s Out of Control’"
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2...uto-burglary-car-break-in-its-out-of-control/
What to do?????
We cannot help those who do not want help ..... no matter how much money or good intentions are thrown at a problem. as your post clearly demonstrates.
I find it odd that people do not see the health risks for all with just go on a sidewalk / street etc.....
Aunt Bea
SF VIP
- Location
- Near Mount Pilot
The thing that I don't see is an effort to provide some relief for the residents and business owners of blighted areas who try to live by the rules, pay their bills, and make a decent life for themselves.
IMO we need to spend a little more time and energy polishing the other side of the coin.
I don't believe that the problem will ever be solved, but it seems like we could find a cost-effective way to manage it that would improve the quality of life for all involved.
IMO we need to spend a little more time and energy polishing the other side of the coin.
I don't believe that the problem will ever be solved, but it seems like we could find a cost-effective way to manage it that would improve the quality of life for all involved.
Remy
Well-known Member
- Location
- California, USA
I know. I have heard many times how people were let out of the mental institutions. With little resource. We have homeless in my town and they now think they are going to be moving them all to this area with these tiny, tiny houses that are being built. Will see how that plays out.
But there are people like me who work and with the price increases after the fires due to demand and insurance payouts, it's ridiculous what they are getting for old mobile homes. If they would start a new park, that would push those prices back down. And I'd be willing to wait for a new place. As long as they allowed smaller ones. Nothing for those in the middle. Just expensive houses and apartments that take your rent money.
officerripley
Well-known Member
- Location
- Porlock, Calif
I agree; it's the same here.
Irwin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
While elected officials and government decide what can or can't be built by zoning area for certain types of construction, they don't decide what to build. Investors and construction companies make those decisions, and they make them based on what they can profit most from. And politicians that rely on donations, including those from construction companies, make zoning laws based on what is asked of them by those companies. It's all about profits. As the old saying goes, we have the best government money can buy.
horseless carriage
Well-known Member
Trying to avoid a political answer. The UK's National Health Service, although currently wobbly due to covid, is not the be all and end all that others might see. It comes at a high cost, but it is free at the point of delivery.
How high a cost? Our income tax system is tiered so that the more you earn the more you pay, at the other end of the scale everyone can earn £12,570 per annum before they start paying income tax.
A second deduction is made from everyone's salary and it's known as N.I. it means: National Insurance, and that amount is 12% of income, payable from the very first penny earned, no allowance like income tax.
Are you with me so far? On top of the employee's 12%, every employer pays double that, for everyone that they employ. To put that into figures lets suggest that you are earning £25,000 a year. You will pay about £2500 (£2486 to be precise) in income tax, that's because you are allowed £12,570 before you pay anything, then you pay 20% tax on the remainder.
But you are going to pay a further 12% of your £25,000 in N.I. That equals £3,000. Furthermore, your employer will pay, £6,000. that's a total of £9,000. Remember, employers have to budget for their N.I. contribution, so if they didn't have to pay it, you would earn £31,000 instead of £25,000.
You pay no N.I. when you reach the retirement age of 66, but if you continue to work, your employer is still liable for the employer's rate.
There is a sweetener though, out of the N.I. kitty, not only is the cost of your health care removed, it also pays sick pay and state pensions. We Brits have lived with the system since 1948, we can, if we wish, still pay private health care, but N.I. will still be deducted.
National health is not second class compared to private, even royalty have been referred to a national health hospital. It's a system most of us have grown up with, we know no other.
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Irwin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Denver, Colorado, U.S.A.
We could, but since it involves socialism, it won't happen any time soon.
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
Wealthy and wealth seekers, banks, financial institutions, real estate corps, retail corps, Wall Street, and their politicians and media puppets with their continuous infrastructure growth and development for short term gain, and its need for endless population gains has driven this situation since the mid 80s. After the 1986 immigration act, backdoor politicians for the wealthy made sure it was never enforced. The increasing wealth gap is one direct result bearing on what has happened to the poor. Loss of low and middle class jobs the poor used to enjoy? Remember it was the 1980s when Wall Street's more efficient larger corporations began replacing all manner of smaller companies across the country. To do that they needed to undercut costs of the local regional companies and a key tool was allowing large numbers of unskilled immigrants in. So although it is true some politicians on both sides of the isle were indeed working for a better America, they were overwhelmed by the $$$ powers.
No more USA citizens picking and working crops, far less teens working in low end retail and food service jobs or mowing lawns, lodging industry maid cleaning work taken over by unskilled immigrants, higher paying blue collar construction jobs and their company crews decimated by a race to the bottom bidders employing illegal immigrants, and much more books have been written about. Soon Wall Street instead of building up tech companies for the long term, was buying up and after a year or three, offshoring manufacturing and selling technology directly to Asian nations. Yeah the result of world leading research and creativity of our 50s>80s generation was taken and sold off to highest external bidders so wealthy least deserving fat cats could retire down in Palm Beach and Palm Springs to play golf. For years we were told, become college educated and enjoy a successful life. Instead they inconsiderately sold off our careers and worse brought in H1B aliens trained in our own universities to replace our jobs to lower costs.
And then there are all the decades old festering racial issues guided by elite Ivy League University idealistic social engineers in Wall Streets back pockets, intent on pushing together people in a single generation from A to Z across the world without much consideration of how that might not work after centuries of widely varying cultures, religions, beliefs where few trusted others on the other side of railroad tracks, much less beyond national borders. One could write a book on how sad this all is.
No more USA citizens picking and working crops, far less teens working in low end retail and food service jobs or mowing lawns, lodging industry maid cleaning work taken over by unskilled immigrants, higher paying blue collar construction jobs and their company crews decimated by a race to the bottom bidders employing illegal immigrants, and much more books have been written about. Soon Wall Street instead of building up tech companies for the long term, was buying up and after a year or three, offshoring manufacturing and selling technology directly to Asian nations. Yeah the result of world leading research and creativity of our 50s>80s generation was taken and sold off to highest external bidders so wealthy least deserving fat cats could retire down in Palm Beach and Palm Springs to play golf. For years we were told, become college educated and enjoy a successful life. Instead they inconsiderately sold off our careers and worse brought in H1B aliens trained in our own universities to replace our jobs to lower costs.
And then there are all the decades old festering racial issues guided by elite Ivy League University idealistic social engineers in Wall Streets back pockets, intent on pushing together people in a single generation from A to Z across the world without much consideration of how that might not work after centuries of widely varying cultures, religions, beliefs where few trusted others on the other side of railroad tracks, much less beyond national borders. One could write a book on how sad this all is.
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