How Should a Woman Protect Herself?

[treeguy64]

No you didn’t come directly out and say that. You just strongly suggested it.

You refuse to understand what I wrote. You are VERY wrong, in your assertion, above. I will simplify what I wrote, previously:

If a woman dresses like a prostitute, she may be treated like a prostitute. A prostitute is not raped, when business is conducted in the preferred fashion, fantasy stuff notwithstanding. A prostitute attracts the attention of men by dressing in a provocative way. Men then approach her to transact business. If a woman dresses in a provocative manner, the odds are good that men will assume she is looking for sex, either on a for-hire basis, or not. There is no rape involved, here, whatsoever. It's a business deal, if that is what's desired.

No, means no. If a woman does not want to have sex with someone, and that someone does not relent, then rape occurs, if sex occurs. THAT is never justifiable.

Again, everyone, male and female, should not be so dense, or so self-involved, as to think that dressing in a provocative manner will not draw the attentions of those who have sex on their mind, as a result of seeing that provocatively dressed person.

If you do not live in a larger city, or a campus town, then the odds are good that you have no idea how younger women are dressing. When I think I've seen it all, I find I haven't.

Remember, I'm no prude. For fifteen years, I was a tattooist and body piercer. I regularly had college co-eds come into my shop and, within ten minutes, I was piercing their nipples, clit hoods, etc. I dealt respectfully with all clients. Had I not, I would not have had one of the most popular shops in town.

My point, here, is that it takes a lot to have me get disgusted with the manner in which some people dress, because I've dealt with so many "out there" folks. If I say that a person is dressed in a provocative manner, and will draw the attention of others, you can take it to the bank!

The OP asked how women could protect themselves. I stated that not dressing provocatively was one way to not draw attention to themselves. I am correct, so I will stand by my assertion.

 

[SeaBreeze]

I think it's really hard to give particular advice on things like this, we have to act when the moment presents itself and go with our gut feelings for survival. If it's them or me and I have any choice in the matter, it will be them.

As a thread with no specifics I think this part of your response makes the most sense.

Knight, I really wasn't thinking about specifics in this particular thread, I just meant it's hard to give specific advice unless you know the place and moment of an attack. Like if you're in the city and are grabbed into an alley at night, or on a lonely path in a park, or in the middle of a parking lot in the suburbs, or on an isolated trail in the back woods.

You may consider where you are, if there's anyone around nearby, and assess your potential attacker. If he's a smaller slighter man with no weapon, or a big man with a gun or switchblade, etc. You'd just have to follow your instincts in the way to react in any particular situation. You may start fighting him off right away, or you may use your smarts to influence the way things go in the encounter by staying calm as possible and look for the perfect chance to make your move.

Someone suggested you act like you're enjoying it if it is a rape, I don't agree with that at all. But you could show you're scared or act indifferently until it's an ideal time to escape or fight back.

 

[SeaBreeze]

No, means no. If a woman does not want to have sex with someone, and that someone does not relent, then rape occurs, if sex occurs. THAT is never justifiable.

Again, everyone, male and female, should not be so dense, or so self-involved, as to think that dressing in a provocative manner will not draw the attentions of those who have sex on their mind, as a result of seeing that provocatively dressed person.

The OP asked how women could protect themselves. I stated that not dressing provocatively was one way to not draw attention to themselves. I am correct, so I will stand by my assertion.

I agree with you that 'no means no' and regardless of the way a woman is dressed, if the man doesn't stop right there, then it is rape and never justifiable. Of course, if a woman is dressed in a way that she's letting it all hang out, she will draw the attentions of those who have sex on their mind, that's a no-brainer IMO.

 

[Keesha]

TREEGUY,

Saying that women make themselves more vulnerable to rape by dressing provocatively is a myth.


It’s used as justification or an excuse for sexual violence. In reality women from all backgrounds, classes, race, and age get raped and how they act, what they wear and how they look has no impact on this. Zero!
Children get raped as well as grandmothers.
Rape is an act of violence, not sex.


In fact there are all kinds of myths about rape:


If you didn’t fight back then it’s not rape


Women often say no when they mean yes


Most men who rape are mentally ill


Men who rape are sexually frustrated


Most rapes happens when people are taking drugs and alcohol


Women make up stories to coverup embarrassment about consensual sex


Only men rape

And lastly, a helpful suggestion made by many is women should always stay off the street late at night as this is the time they are most likely to get raped. Wrong again. Very few rapes are committed from women dressed provocatively walking down the street late at night. You are all watching too many movies. Over 90% of rapes are committed by people the victim knows.


Rape is a way of humiliating and exerting power over someone. It’s not about sex.
Sexual violence is not about lust or uncontrollable desire or having had too many drinks. It’s about the need to exert power over another and from a society that promotes inequalities which leads to abuse of women & children.


What a women is wearing has nothing to do with it. Nobody asks to be raped or sexually assaulted. The blame is 100% on the abuser.


Men rape for power not desire

 

[win231]

TREEGUY,

Saying that women make themselves more vulnerable to rape by dressing provocatively is a myth.


It’s used as justification or an excuse for sexual violence. In reality women from all backgrounds, classes, race, and age get raped and how they act, what they wear and how they look has no impact on this. Zero!
Children get raped as well as grandmothers.
Rape is an act of violence, not sex.


In fact there are all kinds of myths about rape:


If you didn’t fight back then it’s not rape


Women often say no when they mean yes


Most men who rape are mentally ill


Men who rape are sexually frustrated


Most rapes happens when people are taking drugs and alcohol


Women make up stories to coverup embarrassment about consensual sex


Only men rape

And lastly, a helpful suggestion made by many is women should always stay off the street late at night as this is the time they are most likely to get raped. Wrong again. Very few rapes are committed from women dressed provocatively walking down the street late at night. You are all watching too many movies. Over 90% of rapes are committed by people the victim knows.


Rape is a way of humiliating and exerting power over someone. It’s not about sex.
Sexual violence is not about lust or uncontrollable desire or having had too many drinks. It’s about the need to exert power over another and from a society that promotes inequalities which leads to abuse of women & children.


What a women is wearing has nothing to do with it. Nobody asks to be raped or sexually assaulted. The blame is 100% on the abuser.


Men rape for power not desire

Sorry, but #2 & #6 are not myths. They occur frequently. I've witnessed both, especially women making up stories - more to avoid feeling sleazy & saving face after sleeping with someone they later decide they shouldn't have. Turning it into a rape makes it "not their fault."

 

[treeguy64]

TREEGUY,

Saying that women make themselves more vulnerable to rape by dressing provocatively is a myth.


It’s used as justification or an excuse for sexual violence. In reality women from all backgrounds, classes, race, and age get raped and how they act, what they wear and how they look has no impact on this. Zero!
Children get raped as well as grandmothers.
Rape is an act of violence, not sex.


In fact there are all kinds of myths about rape:


If you didn’t fight back then it’s not rape


Women often say no when they mean yes


Most men who rape are mentally ill


Men who rape are sexually frustrated


Most rapes happens when people are taking drugs and alcohol


Women make up stories to coverup embarrassment about consensual sex


Only men rape

And lastly, a helpful suggestion made by many is women should always stay off the street late at night as this is the time they are most likely to get raped. Wrong again. Very few rapes are committed from women dressed provocatively walking down the street late at night. You are all watching too many movies. Over 90% of rapes are committed by people the victim knows.


Rape is a way of humiliating and exerting power over someone. It’s not about sex.
Sexual violence is not about lust or uncontrollable desire or having had too many drinks. It’s about the need to exert power over another and from a society that promotes inequalities which leads to abuse of women & children.


What a women is wearing has nothing to do with it. Nobody asks to be raped or sexually assaulted. The blame is 100% on the abuser.


Men rape for power not desire

KEESHA

I am sincerely sorry that you cannot understand what I posted about. Nowhere did I make any of my posts about rape. That you're fixated on it speaks volumes, and you have my sympathy, with all due respect. I will not continue posting in this thread. I wish you the best.

 

[911]

Great advice 911. I'd add never being alone in dangerous places and look like you're in charge of your life and yourself. Like you have a purpose. Predators look for easy targets. Vulnerabilities. Don't walk if you can drive, especially at night and here's an oldie - don't talk to strangers. If a guy does try to hurt you hit him in the solar plexus, instep, nose and groin. Fast. Marshal arts can help if you know any, but try to just avoid places and situations where an attack might be more likely. My cousin was a homicide detective for over thirty years and his advice to me has been invaluable. I agree with the pepper spray, but it's not always easy to get it and is illegal in many places. I'd favor a Taser, but likewise - same problem.

Just one correction; The last that I knew, carrying pepper spray was legal in all 50 states. What's not legal is that some states only allow up to a certain size canister and/or type of spray. Check with your state. About 40 states allow the carrying of stun guns and Tasers. I have been hit with a Taser in training. There is no doubt in my mind that Tasers are very effective. I carried one on my service belt and would rather use a Taser before my gun, if the situation allowed.

 

[Keesha]

KEESHA

I am sincerely sorry that you cannot understand what I posted about. Nowhere did I make any of my posts about rape. That you're fixated on it speaks volumes, and you have my sympathy, with all due respect. I will not continue posting in this thread. I wish you the best.

Its in a thread about women protecting themselves. What do you think they are protecting themselves from?
Its not from being cursed and yelled at.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/qz.com/...o-thirds-of-rape-cases-are-never-cleared/amp/


http://www.unwomen.org/en/what-we-do/ending-violence-against-women/facts-and-figures

Yes I probably took your post out of context which I seem to be doing a lot of lately and isn’t fair for anyone here.
In fact , I’m causing more turmoil with my posts than anything else which DOES speak volumes even when I’m trying to help.
Message received loud & clear.

 

[Keesha]

Sorry, but #'s 2 & 6 are not myths. They occur frequently. I've witnessed both more than once.

Sorry, but #2 & #6 are not myths. They occur frequently. I've witnessed both, especially women making up stories - more to avoid feeling sleazy & saving face after sleeping with someone they later decide they shouldn't have. Turning it into a rape makes it "not their fault."

If there are women doing this then they should be ashamed of themselves. Rape is a serious offence and saying it happened when it didn’t hurts everyone and is a slab in the face to all who have really experienced it. I can’t imagine anyone lying about such a sadistic , despicable act.

As a woman of course I know that the way a woman presents herself to the world says a lot about the type of women she is. Dressing provocatively certainly sends out mixed messages and should be discouraged but it’s still no reason to get raped.

I’ve no doubt that women who drink and act disrespectful towards themselves are more susceptible to acts of sexual violence but women of all races, ages and cultures are raped. Most of them aren’t dressed like prostitutes and unfortunately the number one reason women don’t report rape is because they don’t want to go through this barbaric ritual of being shamed in court or by society but unfortunately it happens all the time. It is a horrible stigma attached to a hideous crime.

 

[911]

This post may go a bit off course, but it kind of ties in with tree guy and keesha’s posts. We all know about Gary Ridgway. Gary confessed to killing 71 women.

Gary said he chose his victims if they appeared to be a prostitute, addict or homeless. He was considered a sexual deviant that prowled the streets looking for his victims. Those poor, unfortunate women had no defense mechanisms in their possession. They never trusted their instincts, even when there were warnings out on the streets of Seattle and other burbs to let the women know to be hyper-vigilante when going with someone for money, drugs or as a pick-up.

How they were dressed was not an issue. He just wanted sex and then the “pleasure” of killing them. There have been other serial killers that were like Ridgway as sexual predators. Charles Ng and Leonard Lake come to mind.

 

[SeaBreeze]

Back to self defense for women. This video has a few tips that women can use, of course not all of us can do all the moves shown in the video, but even small takes of tips can be useful. I was taught a couple of these many years ago, but not the exact variation. Since I can't run as fast as I used to, I'd prefer to harm the attacker to the point where he is no longer as strong of a threat against me.

For example, in their move #1, I would take advantage of getting him in that position and kick the back of his elbow, breaking it. Since our wrists and punches are not as strong and effective as a man's, a good move is to use the palm of your hand, and quickly use it to 'punch' upward from his nostril area on the nose. Whatever move you use, be serious about it, it may be a matter of life and death for you.

When driving your thumbs into his eyes, first make sure your fingers are tight together, and your hands are as stiff as possible. Use his head as a guide for your hands, move your fingers alongside his head, while shoving your thumbs as far as they can go into his eyes, do any move quickly. I know, sounds gross, but when the deed is done he will be unable to see and he will be in a lot of pain, giving you a chance to call for help or at least get away.

If you happen to be lying on the ground to the side of him for a minute, take advantage by hooking his calf with the instep of the foot lowest to the ground, while kicking the side of his knee with the heel of your top foot. If you do it right and hard enough, it can break his knee, if you can't get it to break, it will at least be injured and he'll be in pain. Take advantage of whatever position he gets into which makes him vulnerable for strikes to areas like eyes, nose, groin, elbows and knees.

Use whatever is around for a weapon, like a stick (Gary O' mentioned this), rocks, etc.

 

[SeaBreeze]

Getting out of chock holds seem a bit harder and more involved, but I think if you get any tips of value from videos like this, it's worth watching. Also, if you have someone at home you can practice the moves on, it's even better to physically do the move.

 

[win231]

If there are women doing this then they should be ashamed of themselves. Rape is a serious offence and saying it happened when it didn’t hurts everyone and is a slab in the face to all who have really experienced it. I can’t imagine anyone lying about such a sadistic , despicable act.

As a woman of course I know that the way a woman presents herself to the world says a lot about the type of women she is. Dressing provocatively certainly sends out mixed messages and should be discouraged but it’s still no reason to get raped.

I’ve no doubt that women who drink and act disrespectful towards themselves are more susceptible to acts of sexual violence but women of all races, ages and cultures are raped. Most of them aren’t dressed like prostitutes and unfortunately the number one reason women don’t report rape is because they don’t want to go through this barbaric ritual of being shamed in court or by society but unfortunately it happens all the time. It is a horrible stigma attached to a hideous crime.

One thing I'll never understand: When women falsely accuse a man of rape, then later admit they lied, in some cases, men have spent years in prison. And women who do this are NEVER prosecuted. 25 years ago, I was having dinner with a group of friends. One woman drank too much (I found out later, she was an alcoholic & always drank too much & had several DUI's.) She drove to the restaurant. Since I was hit by a drunk driver in the past (who killed a passenger in his car) I knew what could happen if she drove home, I said I would drive her. On the way to her house, she started accusing me of "Trying something with her." (I wouldn't if she was the last woman on earth...I hate drunks). She got louder & louder & more & more nutty & by the time I got to her house, she was screaming hysterically & she also tore her blouse. It was 2:00am & people started waking up & coming out of their apartments. She lived with her parents, who (of course) were quite familiar with her drinking. Her parents rushed out of the apartment, thanked me & dragged her indoors. I learned my lesson about helping people; almost the hard way.

If she (or someone else) had called the police, I would have been arrested for sexual assault - her torn blouse, bruises she gave herself. I might have been convicted. I don't even want to think of what I would do to her if that happened.

 

[Keesha]

How they were dressed was not an issue. He just wanted sex and then the “pleasure” of killing them.

Thank you for clarifying this. It’s good to get feedback from a professional who deals with this type of thing on a regular bases.
I don’t think the topic of ‘rape’ is off topic on a thread about women protecting themselves.

 

[Keesha]

One thing I'll never understand: When women falsely accuse a man of rape, then later admit they lied, in some cases, men have spent years in prison. And women who do this are NEVER prosecuted. 25 years ago, I was having dinner with a group of friends. One woman drank too much (I found out later, she was an alcoholic & always drank too much & had several DUI's.) She drove to the restaurant. Since I was hit by a drunk driver in the past (who killed a passenger in his car) I knew what could happen if she drove home, I said I would drive her. On the way to her house, she started accusing me of "Trying something with her." (I wouldn't if she was the last woman on earth...I hate drunks). She got louder & louder & more & more nutty & by the time I got to her house, she was screaming hysterically & she also tore her blouse. It was 2:00am & people started waking up & coming out of their apartments. She lived with her parents, who (of course) were quite familiar with her drinking. Her parents rushed out of the apartment, thanked me & dragged her indoors. I learned my lesson about helping people; almost the hard way.

If she (or someone else) had called the police, I would have been arrested for sexual assault - her torn blouse, bruises she gave herself. I might have been convicted. I don't even want to think of what I would do to her if that happened.

Yes. Being a female who would never do such a thing, my perspective doesn’t cover all angles so apologize for not seeing the other side of things

 

[RadishRose]

I don’t think the topic of ‘rape’ is off topic on a thread about women protecting themselves.

I agree, Keesha.

Also, I don't see what clothing or manner of dress has to do with women needing to protect themselves.

 

[Sunny]

Win, what a dramatic account of a horrifying experience. Fortunately, you weren't arrested. If you had been, I wonder if you would have done time in prison in the absence of any DNA evidence against you. It would have been your word against hers, and she had a history of drunken behavior. Although, race might factor in; our country has a sad history of innocent black men being arrested in similar circumstances.

In any case, not a good experience for you no matter what the outcome was, and you were being a good samaritan.

 

[Ruthanne]

Just one correction; The last that I knew, carrying pepper spray was legal in all 50 states. What's not legal is that some states only allow up to a certain size canister and/or type of spray. Check with your state. About 40 states allow the carrying of stun guns and Tasers. I have been hit with a Taser in training. There is no doubt in my mind that Tasers are very effective. I carried one on my service belt and would rather use a Taser before my gun, if the situation allowed.

I carry pepper spray but am not sure how long it is good for. Last time I had it so long I bought a new one just in case the old one expired or ran "out of gas." We have to have a CCW permit in Ohio to carry a taser.

 

[Ruthanne]

Fight dirty. Bite, kick, claw and go for the vulnerable spots. Kick or punch him in the balls if you can, but even better go for the eyes. Try to bury your finger into one or both of his eye sockets all the way to the third knuckle. And if you manage to get the upper hand don't let up. Do society a favor and finish him off. And when the cops question you keep repeating the magic words "I feared for my life" every chance you get.

Now that I think of it, this advice goes for dudes too.

Yes, definitely~I have learned those things in self defense classes, too.

 

[Ruthanne]

If…you’re caught unawares, anything with a pointed end, even a Bic pen, can be a formidable weapon.

Stab at any part of the person nearest you, arm/hand whatever, but aim for the face if and when you have that chance.
Don't quit stabbing.

Here, in the sticks, my wife carries a knife or revolver.
She walks 5 to 10 miles a day.
Nobody around.
But she’s aware and able if anyone or anything charges her

Yes.

My Dad owned a bar years ago. One night the conversations turned to rape. Harvey a regular at the tavern said "I've told Marge if ever she is being raped rather than being hurt she should lie there and pretend she is enjoying it". She said (in response), "that will be easy, I've done it ever since we were married!"

Good sense of humor she had~

Good advice Gary, the face is always good, especially the eyes. But as I mentioned before, try not to project your intended moves beforehand, giving him an chance to block or stop them. Catch him off-guard if possible.

yes.

Uptosnuff, except that they could grab the cell phone and run off with it. Better than being physically assaulted, I guess.

Squatting Dog, no, that is a terrible idea, and a large part of what is wrong with this country right now. Much more likely to create problems than to prevent them.

I respectfully disagree. I know many women now who carry fire arms. Predators do too, so it's really necessary imho.

 

[Ruthanne]

If…you’re caught unawares, anything with a pointed end, even a Bic pen, can be a formidable weapon.

Stab at any part of the person nearest you, arm/hand whatever, but aim for the face if and when you have that chance.
Don't quit stabbing.

Here, in the sticks, my wife carries a knife or revolver.
She walks 5 to 10 miles a day.
Nobody around.
But she’s aware and able if anyone or anything charges her

My Dad owned a bar years ago. One night the conversations turned to rape. Harvey a regular at the tavern said "I've told Marge if ever she is being raped rather than being hurt she should lie there and pretend she is enjoying it". She said (in response), "that will be easy, I've done it ever since we were married!"

Good advice Gary, the face is always good, especially the eyes. But as I mentioned before, try not to project your intended moves beforehand, giving him an chance to block or stop them. Catch him off-guard if possible.

Unfortunately, a woman can "manage to be in the position to be raped" by just walking down the street minding her own business. It's a big fat myth that most women who are raped are either dressed very provocatively or somehow "asking for it." Rape victims are all ages, sizes, degrees of physical attractiveness, and dressed in all manner of ways. It is NEVER the woman's fault, IMHO. We had a serial rapist here a few years ago who went around raping women in their 70s and 80s.

I hear you~

 

[Ruthanne]

If…you’re caught unawares, anything with a pointed end, even a Bic pen, can be a formidable weapon.

Stab at any part of the person nearest you, arm/hand whatever, but aim for the face if and when you have that chance.
Don't quit stabbing.

Here, in the sticks, my wife carries a knife or revolver.
She walks 5 to 10 miles a day.
Nobody around.
But she’s aware and able if anyone or anything charges her

My Dad owned a bar years ago. One night the conversations turned to rape. Harvey a regular at the tavern said "I've told Marge if ever she is being raped rather than being hurt she should lie there and pretend she is enjoying it". She said (in response), "that will be easy, I've done it ever since we were married!"

Good advice Gary, the face is always good, especially the eyes. But as I mentioned before, try not to project your intended moves beforehand, giving him an chance to block or stop them. Catch him off-guard if possible.

This post may go a bit off course, but it kind of ties in with tree guy and keesha’s posts. We all know about Gary Ridgway. Gary confessed to killing 71 women.

Gary said he chose his victims if they appeared to be a prostitute, addict or homeless. He was considered a sexual deviant that prowled the streets looking for his victims. Those poor, unfortunate women had no defense mechanisms in their possession. They never trusted their instincts, even when there were warnings out on the streets of Seattle and other burbs to let the women know to be hyper-vigilante when going with someone for money, drugs or as a pick-up.

How they were dressed was not an issue. He just wanted sex and then the “pleasure” of killing them. There have been other serial killers that were like Ridgway as sexual predators. Charles Ng and Leonard Lake come to mind.

I watch a lot of ID Channel and have seen these cases and many others, made me even more aware of the dangers in our society. I was aware at a younger age, too, but became aware again watching these.

 

[Ruthanne]

I probably arrested a dozen college men for rape on campus. Maybe another 50 or more men for striking their s/o during a domestic squabble.

I used to to do a program at the YWCA and the Jewish Community Center for women and how they can protect themself. Contained in the Power Point presentation, we advised women that either liked to frequent bars, lived alone or were in an abusive relationship to carry a small handbag size weapon like a canister of mace or pepper spray (both are the same thing), a tactical pen or a small handgun. If you go with the latter, make sure that you also carry a “right to carry” permit.

In most cases, women need to immediately disable their attacker and have time to escape. Escape is a women’s best bet. Trying to overpower a man is almost useless. If the women has no self-defense training, the man will either punch the woman in the face to stun her before he puts his hands around their throat.

For some reason, men like to apply enough pressure to the throat to have their victim pass out. That may go on a few times. He is seeking control and also to send his victim a message that he is in charge.

One last thing, if you are in an abusive relationship and are making plans to leave, keep it a secret and when you do leave, DO NOT warn your partner. The most dangerous times in a relationship is when one of the partners is in the process of leaving, using this applies to the female. Tell no one, not even mom or dad.

Women—-Don’t become a victim. Always have situational awareness and seek escape when uncomfortable with your situation. And, like I wrote earlier, never get in the car.

Thank you and I agree wholeheartedly.:notfair::thankyou:

 

[Butterfly]

I respectfully disagree. I know many women now who carry fire arms. Predators do too, so it's really necessary imho.

Ruthanne, if I worked a night shift or for some other reason had to be out at night, I'd get a CC permit and carry, too. I know several nurses who work the shift that gets off at midnight who carry.

 

[Ruthanne]

Ruthanne, if I worked a night shift or for some other reason had to be out at night, I'd get a CC permit and carry, too. I know several nurses who work the shift that gets off at midnight who carry.

Wise women they are. It's a necessity now a days and it has been for a long time, too, since these crimes have been happening forever it seems.