How to Compare COVID Deaths for Vaccinated and Unvaccinated People

Our current vaccines for Covid helped slow down the spread, but they are not 100% effective to be sure. My guess is there will be more effective vaccines eventually.
I hope you are right about the more effective vaccine. However it depends on how fast the virus changes.

Our flu vaccines have never done much better than 50% effective, even though they are improved every year. New flu viruses and old ones changing is the problem.
 

When I read this guys posts, I am reminded of the definition for an "internet troll". Not worth the argument.
Here's a BBC article about Internet trolls, which I have not heard much about lately. This is from 2018, when it came to light that Russia was using trolls to infiltrate the Internet and create polarization in foreign politics and influence elections. When I run up against low information users who cannot actually discuss anything, I always wonder about this. Of course, not all trolls are Russian operatives. Some just like to troll, some are just drawn to conspiracy theories, and we have enough ordinary home grown of our own who can't process information effectively.

Yes, not worth he argument.

Russia Trolls 'Spreading Vaccination Misinformation' to Create Discord
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45294192
 
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I hope you are right about the more effective vaccine. However it depends on how fast the virus changes.

Our flu vaccines have never done much better than 50% effective, even though they are improved every year. New flu viruses and old ones changing is the problem.
That low? I knew vaccinated people still got the flu, but getting the flu is no longer a yearly event since I started getting the shots. I haven't had the flu now for several years, or maybe I've been getting milder infections that I don't recognize.
 

That low?
Yes, but it is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. Flu is a group of different viruses, not just different varieties of the same like Covid. So it may be harder to be effective. About the flu vaccine in general the CDC says:

Recent studies show flu vaccine can reduce the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well matched to the flu vaccine viruses.

Elsewhere the CDC says the 2022 flu vaccine was a bit less effective.

Even so I get the flu vaccines every year, and like you believe they have helped me. A 50% risk reduction is significant and I believe worthwhile.
 
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A phrase I often in hear in regards to wintertime sickness is "Colds and flu," or the "Colds and flu season." I don't know if it's coincidence, but since getting yearly flu shots, there has been a major change in my colds, also. I used to get at least a couple each year, and at least one would be accompanied by violent sore throat that was 10 times worse than the fever, sneezing, and dripping. Those have gone away. <knock on wood> I have wondered about a connection.
 
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I googled Internet trolling, and here's a good definition:
An Example of Trolling:

Entering an online discussion on astronomy and insisting that the earth is flat in order to provoke an emotional and verbal response from community members. This may be a relatively tame example,but the intent is still to disrupt and incite outrage.
 
I googled Internet trolling, and here's a good definition:
An Example of Trolling:

Entering an online discussion on astronomy and insisting that the earth is flat in order to provoke an emotional and verbal response from community members. This may be a relatively tame example,but the intent is still to disrupt and incite outrage.
That's a pretty good definition of trolling. It's sometimes hard to differentiate that from plain ignorance. I've known moderators to get caught up in that definition and feel unable to act because they can't prove the person is a troll. I would suggest, that the guideline used in the bigger social media outlets (facebook) of spreading false information may be a better reason for disciplining disruptive behavior. I'm not criticizing moderators. I certainly wouldn't want the job. It's just something I've been thinking about. Basically, I've come to accept that trolls, false information, and fake news are just part of the MISINFORMATION AGE.
 
I googled Internet trolling, and here's a good definition:
An Example of Trolling:

Entering an online discussion on astronomy and insisting that the earth is flat in order to provoke an emotional and verbal response from community members. This may be a relatively tame example,but the intent is still to disrupt and incite outrage.
We have a few trolls here who repeatedly post that the covid-19 pandemic is a hoax and that vaccinations are unsafe. They rarely participate in other discussions, but when it comes to covid-19, watch out! They know the real truth! Just like the flat-earthers. :ROFLMAO:
 
That low? I knew vaccinated people still got the flu, but getting the flu is no longer a yearly event since I started getting the shots. I haven't had the flu now for several years, or maybe I've been getting milder infections that I don't recognize.
People often credit flu shots for not getting the flu.
I've never had a flu shot. The last flu I had was 40 years ago. I'm sure there are others who get yearly flu shots & also never get the flu & attribute it to flu shots.
Also tested negative for Covid twice (not my choice; ER tested me); never had any Covid vaccine. I'm sure some people who chose to get vaccinated & never had Covid credit the vaccine, as well.
 
People often credit flu shots for not getting the flu.
I've never had a flu shot. The last flu I had was 40 years ago. I'm sure there are others who get yearly flu shots & also never get the flu & attribute it to flu shots.
Also tested negative for Covid twice (not my choice; ER tested me); never had any Covid vaccine. I'm sure some people who chose to get vaccinated & never had Covid credit the vaccine, as well.
That is true, its why you need to rely on large population statistical results. One ofs don't shed much light on the subject. However they do often explain why people believe as they do.
 
That is true, its why you need to rely on large population statistical results. One ofs don't shed much light on the subject. However they do often explain why people believe as they do.
That might be true - if it was ony "one ofs."
To date, the only people I know who got sick with Covid were vaccinated.
And that doesn't include many celebrities we're already aware of.
 
That is true, its why you need to rely on large population statistical results. One ofs don't shed much light on the subject. However they do often explain why people believe as they do.
Typhoid Mary believed to her dying day that she never had typhoid. The whole story is unsettling and her treatment controversial. But this account follows the details as recorded. And fairly covers opinion on both sides.

 
That might be true - if it was ony "one ofs."
To date, the only people I know who got sick with Covid were vaccinated.
And that doesn't include many celebrities we're already aware of.
I am not sure the vaccine reduces the risk of contracting Covid, it is interesting that the CDC does not appear to claim this as a benefit. What is clear is that the vaccine reduces the risk of dying of Covid. The article cited in post #1 explains why more vaccinated people are dying of Covid than unvaccinated. This is because most people are now vaccinated.

To be meaningful you have to look at prorated statistics, deaths per 100,000 people is the way the article does it.

It would be interesting to know what the risk of contracting Covid is vaccinated vs unvaccinated. I could not find those numbers, but they are probably out there.

I know a lot of unvaccinated people who have contracted Covid, including my brother I mentioned in post #1. I also know a lot of vaccinated people who have contracted it, including my wife.

The only 2 people I know who died of it were unvaccinated. Again not enough of a sampling to have statistical meaning, but it probably impacts the way I think about it.
 
my unvaccinated (and over 65) brother just tested positive for Covid
An update on my brother, he has been sick about a week now, it hurt a lot but he is getting better. His wife, her mother, their daughter, her husband and her two kids all got it also. None were vaccinated, but none deathly ill. SIL has it the worst. His 90 something MIL seems to be doing the best.

No moral to the story, I would like to think that if they had been vaccinated they might have gotten less sick, but I am not sure. I think it probably would have helped. And I would like to think that the vaccine might have protected them from getting Covid at all, but of that I am less sure.

Just one more statistically useless story to add to the list I guess...
 
The large scale statistics are the only meaningful source of information about vaccines or other health issues. We've all seen the stories about the rare people who have lived to age 120 or so, and have smoked most of their life, etc. Winston Churchill was overweight, always had a cigar in his mouth, and I suspect his diet was anything but healthy. One case proves nothing, one way or another. But studying millions of people usually does produce significant data.
 


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