Humans ARE Violent

Don M.

Don M.

SF VIP
Location
central Missouri
This Oregon mass shooting is just the latest in a string of events which shows that Humans are probably the most violent species on the planet. No other species seems to prey upon itself like humans do. These mass shootings garner all the public's and media attention...but are just the tip of the iceberg. Every day, not only in this country, but in most others, several people are victims of senseless violence. The "perception" seems to be that the U.S. is so violent, because of our gun laws...but global statistics paint a different picture. If you look up the murders, per 100,00, the U.S. actually ranks Way down the list...somewhere around 90th. Most of the nations of South/Central America, and Africa...and even Russia...have murder rates much higher than the U.S....and Many of these nations have really strict gun laws.

These mass murders get everyone upset, but people overlook the daily violence taking place all around them. Here, cities like Detroit, Chicago, Oakland, and St. Louis...to name a few...have become almost zones of anarchy...especially in the minority sections. The vast majority of murders seem to be concentrated in areas where the drug and street gangs reign as the Supreme Authority.

The President and many politicians all get on TV and demand more gun laws each time something like this happens, yet fail to recognize that laws alone won't solve the problem. Chicago, Obama's home town, has already had over 375 murders this year, and Chicago has some of the strongest gun laws in the nation.

People are their own Worst Enemy.
 

I agree, people are violent, much more violent than animals. Recently in the news a 2 year old was strangled to death, mothers killing their babies, children killing their parents...it's insane. People are their own worst enemy in so many ways. Good post Don.
 
The "perception" seems to be that the U.S. is so violent, because of our gun laws...but global statistics paint a different picture. If you look up the murders, per 100,00, the U.S. actually ranks Way down the list...somewhere around 90th. Most of the nations of South/Central America, and Africa...and even Russia...have murder rates much higher than the U.S....and Many of these nations have really strict gun laws.
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Yes, I know. Yet there are people right here on SF who live in other countries and make derogatory comments about the US as if it's some armed camp. :rolleyes:
 

Gun laws notwithstanding, I agree humans can be violent --- and angry. I wonder why all the mass shootings in the states, though. I suppose if there were no guns, they just as likely might be beating each other to death with sticks. But then with so much unrest, people are bound to get disgruntled.
 
Could the cause be due the rampant hard drug abuse perhaps?

I realise drugs have always been around but not the hard evil mind changing drugs that are so easily available cheaply on the streets today!
 
Disgruntled? That's a bit of an understatement when we are talking about taking a life.

I think there are several factors at work and I won't cover all of them but one that has disturbed me is the way our fascination with violence is being constantly fed by the entertainment industry. I'm not talking about children's cartoons like the coyote and the road runner. I'm talking about TV shows like The Vikings and Game of Thrones which I have to admit I have never watched so I may be maligning a perfectly benign show. Blood and gore and violent death are served up all the time. I tend to avoid the shows that I find offensive but I have observed teens revelling in splatter movies and laughing at each murder. They take it all so lightly as if none of it matters. Add to that the violent video games and it all seems to add up to people being conditioned to accept extreme violence as normal. With what we know of brain plasticity these days, I think this is something that we should be concerned about.

We are indeed a species with the capacity for violence but we are also capable of living peacefully in community and we have the freedom to choose which we will work towards. Do we decide to adapt to living in a violent jungle or do we choose to work to create a place where children can grow up safely and where people can flourish as the creative species that we are? Personally, I am hard wired to follow the latter course.
 
Disgruntled was a term used when a frustrated postal worker in the US did a shootout at work. He was described as a 'disgruntled' postal worker. Then the term 'going postal' became popular.

You may be right, DW, people may be getting hardened to violence -- wars, the media, news, TV, movies, games, etc.
 
More work has to be put into being civil, not more laws, incarcerations etc but "civil". It's seems like most have no filter on their mouth or actions anymore because of labels which many of correctly noted as 'a' problem. There is greed and instant gratification. With technology one can get 'gratification' but when technology can't get what one desires they get frustrated-fast and furious in many cases. To me a lot of the 'furious' comes from those not learning how to deal with failure, discomfort or not getting their way. To much emphasis on success when the real test should be how one reacts to failure, can they correct their mistakes, find their way, know when to ask for help etc. This is not taught, society trains for success only, not failure an disappointment yet there is just as much "disappointment".
 
Agree completely! If I remember correctly, the reason those Columbine kids decided to do what they did was that they felt they had been rejected and disrespected by the "jocks," the cool kids on campus. Their response -- let's kill 'em all. NO coping mechanisms at all, and the belief they deserved to get everything they wanted just because they wanted it. If we don't teach our kids a deep respect for the lives of others, how to deal with failure and that life is not fair, this is the outcome.
 
Shalimar said:
Canada has strict gun laws. We rank way down the list, and our homicide rates continue to decline. So does Australia's.
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Canada is EASY to explain...just look up the demographics in Canada, and compare those statistics to the U.S. 90% of the Canadian population is of European ancestry, and Blacks and Latino's don't even comprise 1% of the Canadian population. I doubt that there are any areas of the larger Canadian cities where the street and drug gangs are thriving.

Australia is still a "work in progress". While gun related crimes are down somewhat after the huge confiscation of firearms in 1997, there is evidence that the crime rate has not been reduced, and may even be climbing as the criminals "adapt".
 
Don, I constructed this graph from data extracted from this site that shows intentional homicides per country per decade. This includes all homicides, not jut gun related deaths. I've selected data from 2000 - 2011 and chosen some countries that I think we might like to compare ourselves with.

There are many worse countries such as Russia, South Africa and most of Latin America but it is interesting to see most of the countries I have selected seem to be experiencing either flat rates or some reduction in intentional homicides. Intentional homicide includes murder and suicide but not accidental death or natural causes.

By the way, in OZ we do have active drug gangs and they feature prominently in our homicide rate. Mostly they shoot each other, usually one at a time.

The vertical axis shows the number of intentional homicides per 100,000 and the horizontal represents the years 2000, 2001, 2002,... 2010.

homicide rates.JPG

Surely the aim of US citizens ought to be to join the group of countries at the bottom of the graph. Or at least to narrow the gap.

If instead you want to take consolation that there are countries with worse intentional homicide rates then you can indulge yourself here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_by_decade#2000s
 
Don your information is incorrect. Our larger cities have many street gangs, of various ethnicities. We have drug problems also. Vancouver is a mainline port for drugs, among others. Ninety percent of Canadians are not of European ancestry. For example, Our Indigenous people's might be surprised to hear that. In Canada your comments around blacks and Latinos would be construed as racist and subject to review under our hate speech laws. Of the 130 gun homicides in Canucistan in 2010, most were gang or drug related.
 
Don, Canada has plenty of gangs, especially in my city with a large densely populated area of drug related activity as well as our fair share of shootings.
 
Yes, I've seen this...and other graphs and statistics that show the crime and murder rates around the globe. Once again, as I pointed out to Shalimar...the Demographics of a nation have a great deal to do with that nations crime and murder rates....AND Australia is No exception. Like Canada, Australia demographics indicate that the vast majority of its people are of European descent, with some Asian and Native populations. Blacks and Latino's don't even register on most Australian charts. Here, in the US, Blacks and Latino's make up over 30% of our population and account for a disproportionate rate of crime and murders. If the US had the same demographics as Canada and Australia, we would probably be one of the safest 10 countries on the globe.

Everyone harps about Guns...but I believe it is the person holding the gun...rather than the gun, itself, which is the deciding factor.

Now that I've gotten of on a Racist Rant....let me say that this recent "Black Lives Matter" movement is the biggest Farce and Hypocrisy move I've seen in some time. I guess Black lives Only matter when some Black hothead gets confrontational with the police and winds up on the losing end of the deal. The hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Blacks that are shot every year by members of their own race apparently Don't Matter.
 
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Shalimar said:
Don your information is incorrect. Ninety percent of Canadians are not of European ancestry. For example, In Canada your comments around blacks and Latinos would be construed as racist and subject to review under our hate speech laws. Of the 130 gun homicides in Canucistan in 2010, most were gang or drug related.
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Not living in Canada, I can only gauge that nations Demographics by data posted on numerous Internet sites. Here is just one such reference....and It shows that the Vast Majority of Canadians have a European ancestry. Blacks and Latino's don't even enter the equation. I'm sure that my comments would be "offensive" to the Politically Correct...but there comes a time when Reality must prevail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Ethnic_origin
 
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Doesn't take much to find that crime including homicide rates were high over many eras in this country having nothing to do with minorities being the perpetrators, as far as some of those war torn countries, cities, ares in general, there are many who are reaping benefits from the arms that made it's way into those lands who first taught guns were a best solution to taking what one want in those areas to begin with. What was the lesson survival of the ones best ready for battle at any cost, survival let no man woman or child stand in the way. Rings true of much of society not just guns. Rant over. For now
 
Don M. said:
Not living in Canada, I can only gauge that nations Demographics by data posted on numerous Internet sites. Here is just one such reference....and It shows that the Vast Majority of Canadians have a European ancestry. Blacks and Latino's don't even enter the equation. I'm sure that my comments would be "offensive" to the Politically Correct...but there comes a time when Reality must prevail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Canada#Ethnic_origin
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DonM, I could not care less about political correctness, but when I read your comment it made me bristle a bit, although I can't speak for other non-caucasians on this forum (and I know of several). It's late, I don't feel like reading a lot of links, but just sayin'...

You might want to check on the race/ethnicity of:

Richard Speck
Ted Bundy
Charles Manson & his followers
David Koresh
Jim Jones
John Wayne Gacy
Gary Ridgeway
Paul Knowles
Jeffrey Dahmer
David Berkowitz
Robert Yates
Joel Rifkin
Aileen Wuormos

and quite a few others. (Those were just the ones I thought of off top of my head.)
 
This is the face of our most notorious mass murderer. He shot dead 35 people and wounded another 22 at Port Arthur, Tasmania, hunting them down and killing any he came across. After that our laws changed and there has so far not been another massacre. Of course we still have a number of gun and other homicides every year but the massacres have been stopped. Our big problem now is domestic violence and the murder of women by their intimate partners.

Martin_Bryant.jpg
Martin Bryant.

The implication that a mostly white population can't produce monsters is false.

By the way, the Australian census does not ask what colour the respondents are.
We do record where born,citizenship and whether we identify with one or more overseas ethnicities.
People of Aboriginal or Torres Strait origin are noted as a separate sub group.
 
And by far, most pedophiles are heterosexual.

But.....topic is violence/guns. If you're talking just about street crime/gangs/drugs, that would be another discussion. Sorry for veering off-track, DonM (seriously, I'm not being facetious.)
 
Cookie said:
Don, Canada has plenty of gangs, especially in my city with a large densely populated area of drug related activity as well as our fair share of shootings.[/QUOTE]

Where do the drugs come from? Where are the users of guns obtaining them? Both are surely, illegal, no? imp
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Of course illegal. I don't know where the drugs and guns are coming from, obviously smuggled or stolen.
 
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