I am an Atheist and always have been.

Warrigal said:
Sorry, but you are not making sense. Science is not a person, nor a group of persons.

Science is a body of knowledge, verifiable facts and theories. Scientists follow a process referred to as the scientific method. Scientists argue with each other until it becomes incontestable which theory is the most plausible. Even then if new data/evidence is discovered, accepted thories can be abandoned or modified in the light of new knowledge.

It has been thus since the Middle Ages. Back then science was called Natural Philosophy.
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:) Are we to play word games? Science, politics, education, medicine, law --all are represented by institutions filled with people and their disciplines.
 
IrishEyes said:
My favorite is when and if they have members get up and do testimony. Not many do I think. I love hearing those
personal stories and how it effected them. I think when the sermon is really hitting close to something you are going through
or grateful about at the time, you focus in a bit better. In so doing that, if the next sermon doesn't catch your focus you can bet
it does for someone else.
To be honest the main thing that will turn me off of a church is if they have strong cliques that leave
you out of being a part of a project. I had that happen at two I was trying out to see if I felt they were the one.
All churches don't fit for every one and they sure aren't the same even if they carry the same name.
My family didn't attend church, none since moving to California in the 1940s. I am the only one that has attended regularly when
I found the one that helped me with love, compassion and acceptance. I keep Him with me everyday, I need Him every day to block
that other voice whispering in the other ear. You know what I mean :rolleyes: Sometimes I fail but it's not long before I know it.
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I reread your message and thought about it. Your experience is no different than mine. When you go to any church you are entering a new door, so to speak. You don't know them, they don't know you. You are an outsider so to speak. It takes time for any relationships to establish. The main issue is whether or not the Message and the pastor speak to your heart. If they do then it is good.
We go to church, primarily to worship God. I have passed on so many Sundays and I feel uncomfortable going yet I know I should and I know the Lord wants me to. So I go.
The thing that strikes me about the church I attend, is that the pastor will always find me and come and greet me. Means a lot. His messages always reaches my heart and makes me think. My involvement is up to me at this point. To be frank, your message, that I am responding to, makes me realize that, OUR problem is much the same. Friendships take time but if you find comfort in the church then continue. The rest the Lord will work out. Attend some functions, bible studies. Meet people. We are all basically the same. Bogged down with past experiences, fears and disbelief about anything that seems good and the thought of extending yourself once again is not something you want to do.
But the fact is that you have no options in the matter. You have to or live in fear and regret.
My apologies if I get too strong. I just speak what I feel. Your issue is no different than my issue . I wish you well.
bob
 
gruntlabor said:
:) Are we to play word games? Science, politics, education, medicine, law --all are represented by institutions filled with people and their disciplines.
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No word games on my part. I have a BSc from Macquarie University in Sydney and was a teacher of science and mathematics for 35 years. I have also taught scripture to Sunday School children and religious education classes in a catholic school for teen age girls under the direction of the Sisters of St Joseph.

If it is word game you want, try this. I place my faith and trust in God, try to follow the teachings of Jesus to the best of my ability and rely on people of science to carry out the scientific method in the fields of medicine, engineering, agriculture, and meteorology, to name but a few fields where scientific knowledge is useful and important.
 
I do have to laugh at meteorology. They can't get that even close to right to this day lol.

No offense to anyone, I just have to laugh. I'll trust looking out the window more.
 
AutumnGal said:
I do have to laugh at meteorology. They can't get that even close to right to this day lol.

No offense to anyone, I just have to laugh. I'll trust looking out the window more.
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Tracking cyclones requires a lot of specialised equipment from weather gauges and anemometers all the way up to weather balloons and satellites. A lot of science goes into tracking weather systems. Agriculture relies on long range forecasting, especially in Australia.
 
Warrigal said:
Tracking cyclones requires a lot of specialised equipment from weather gauges and anemometers all the way up to weather balloons and satellites. A lot of science goes into tracking weather systems. Agriculture relies on long range forecasting, especially in Australia.
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Yeah, not saying it's always wrong but it often is, that's my point. I can cite some examples here even.

The science of it is far from perfect. Mother Nature is Mother Nature. If one wants to call it that. It's very imperfect.

And it's gotten fear based as well. Just like news.
 
RambleTamble said:
No war has ever been started in the name of science. The same can't be said for religion.
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Yes but lately I saw on Facebook that even stupid monkeys fight.
Chimpanzees in Uganda locked in vicious 'civil war', say researchers

Me me me and my territory. Even bunnies. My mom worked for an elderly center as a receptionist. They had a little garden with bunnies. A woman asked her: Can I put my bunny there? And my mom had no clue and said: Sure. So they just dropped the bunny there. Next day the gardener came with a dead rabbit.
 
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RambleTamble said:
I'm an atheist, but I can understand why people believe if it relieves their existential anxiety. And that's fine. Just keep it out of politics, and don't hurt other people who don't think like you.

Like the saying goes... Science flies people to the moon; religion flies people into buildings.

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I have always been in favor of the separation of church and state. The most backward countries are the ones where religion runs the country. Usually women suffer the most, like taking away their rights. I was an atheist for awhile after my father died in 1966, but not anymore.

I used to live in New York City, so I still cannot watch the film of the planes flying into the World Trade Center. It's as painful as watching the old Kennedy asasination film.
 
Warrigal said:
No word games on my part. I have a BSc from Macquarie University in Sydney and was a teacher of science and mathematics for 35 years. I have also taught scripture to Sunday School children and religious education classes in a catholic school for teen age girls under the direction of the Sisters of St Joseph.

If it is word game you want, try this. I place my faith and trust in God, try to follow the teachings of Jesus to the best of my ability and rely on people of science to carry out the scientific method in the fields of medicine, engineering, agriculture, and meteorology, to name but a few fields where scientific knowledge is useful and important.
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I defer to you Warrigal as a person of education and experience. In my poor defense I use layman's terms to describe Science loosely and include the people and their apparent philosophies along with the institution.
I think your pledge to Science and Religion is beautiful and without arrogance, as was also true of the oath of Hippocrates.
According to your oath, your trust in (the institution of) science is absolute. I do not trust the people of (the institution of) science.
 
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Paladin1950 said:
I have always been in favor of the separation of church and state. The most backward countries are the ones where religion runs the country. Usually women suffer the most, like taking away their rights. I was an atheist for awhile after my father died in 1966, but not anymore.

I used to live in New York City, so I still cannot watch the film of the planes flying into the World Trade Center. It's as painful as watching the old Kennedy asasination film.
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Yesterday I was playing the Bruce Springsteen album The Rising, with its heartbreaking (and inspiring!) songs about the heroes of 9/11. The song Empty Sky brought me to tears. Imagine living near enough to the NY skyline to be accustomed to looking up and seeing those two incredible towers, and seeing nothing but empty sky instead. And thinking of the innocent lives that were lost in the name of "religion."
 
Rider77 said:
I don't believe I have ever known an atheist. I have known some who admitted to being non believers. Like many things in life I just see this as one of those choices we make. It isn't my place to approve or disapprove. I do know that in the darkest and miserable moments in my life it was my faith that I relied on and will continue to do so.
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Definitely, positive thinking gets much better results than negative thinking. In the past, Christians feared God and Satan. Not until our bellies were full did we have the loving God we have today.
 
VaughanJB said:
So I ask you for one, single, example of a certainty in belief.
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That's a red herring. The member you replied to was addressing your claims about science and you responded by asking her for one example of certainty in belief. She didn't say there was, and based on her historical posts, it's unlikely that she will. Discrediting one does not lend credibility to the other.
 
RambleTamble said:
I'm an atheist, but I can understand why people believe if it relieves their existential anxiety. And that's fine. Just keep it out of politics, and don't hurt other people who don't think like you.

Like the saying goes... Science flies people to the moon; religion flies people into buildings.

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Absolutely!!! The US once thought religion was a private matter, and we avoided arguments by not talking about politics or religion. Today, Christian Nationalism has us on the same path to hell that Germany followed. During the Eisenhower administration, the US used God to mobilize us against the communist Russians. We added "God" to our pledge of allegiance and called the people of the USSR godless people.

Bush and Cheney ran with this union of politics and religion when they took us into war with Iraq. They got away with violating our Constitution. Instead of defending our Constitution, laws were changed to give the president more war power. Remember their "Shock and Awe"?

Now we have Trump, and another terrible war, and he gives us a picture of himself looking like Jesus.

This follows the 1958 National Defense Education Act that Eisenhower asked congress to give us. That ended education for good moral judgment and independent thinking. We shifted to "Group Think". Civics classes were replaced with classes preparing us for a technological society, and moral training was left to the church.

There are a few philosophical issues in what I said.
 
VaughanJB said:
If I were presented with convincing evidence of a God, I'd believe. It would be crazy not to.

The problem is a lack of actual evidence. Strip away blind faith, conjecture, and assumptions, and I found nothing.
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Studies of consciousness can justify believing there is a god, but that doesn't justify believing Bible stories are the word of God. That mythology should not be accepted as fact. It is mythology with a pagan history. For sure, the creation, flood, and Abel and Cain stories came from Sumer. The original stories featured several gods and goddesses, and the Hebrews in Ur plagiarized them, adjusting them to reflect only one God.

At a wiser time in our history, God was beyond our ability to know. Evangelicals reduced this God to Jesus, a god with whom we can have a personal relationship, and we can know his will well enough to kill for him.
 
gruntlabor said:
I defer to you Warrigal as a person of education and experience. In my poor defense I use layman's terms to describe Science loosely and include the people and their apparent philosophies along with the institution.
I think your pledge to Science and Religion is beautiful and without arrogance, as was also true of the oath of Hippocrates.
According to your oath, your trust in (the institution of) science is absolute. I do not trust the people of (the institution of) science.
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Depends on what kind of science. I trust the vet and the science they use. Although.. not any vet. One wanted to kill my rabbit. Are you crazy? Bye. No way. I asked dr. Google and found out what was the matter and which meds he needed. Went to another city, to another vet. I said: He has e cuniculi and needs panacur. He said: I totally agree. That's because he wrote the article I found with Google lol.
 
Vida May said:
Absolutely!!! The US once thought religion was a private matter, and we avoided arguments by not talking about politics or religion. Today, Christian Nationalism has us on the same path to hell that Germany followed. During the Eisenhower administration, the US used God to mobilize us against the communist Russians. We added "God" to our pledge of allegiance and called the people of the USSR godless people.

Bush and Cheney ran with this union of politics and religion when they took us into war with Iraq. They got away with violating our Constitution. Instead of defending our Constitution, laws were changed to give the president more war power. Remember their "Shock and Awe"?

Now we have Trump, and another terrible war, and he gives us a picture of himself looking like Jesus.

This follows the 1958 National Defense Education Act that Eisenhower asked congress to give us. That ended education for good moral judgment and independent thinking. We shifted to "Group Think". Civics classes were replaced with classes preparing us for a technological society, and moral training was left to the church.

There are a few philosophical issues in what I said.
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This is an interesting thread. I hope the above post doesn't get it deleted! Please! Politics are not allowed here!
 
RambleTamble said:
No war has ever been started in the name of science. The same can't be said for religion.
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Sounds right.

Only two of the list. There are a lot to chose from.
god has a plan scripture - Bing


Jeremiah 29:11 – “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future” Bible Study Tools+1. This verse reassures believers that God’s intentions are for their ultimate good, even amid challenges.

Proverbs 16:9 – “In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps” bibleweb.org+1. It reminds us that while we make plans, God ultimately directs our journey.


Our collective ultimate good is spelled out.
 
gruntlabor said:
This is an interesting thread. I hope the above post doesn't get it deleted! Please! Politics are not allowed here!
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I was concerned about that, but we are in another war, and even if someone were holding a gun to my head, I would have to raise awareness about our militant reality and what religion has to do with it. Nothing could be worse than war. How about this, I could stop return to this forum.
 
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