I am confused about this gender binary thing.

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feywon said:
It's something we'll have to agree to disagree on. For me souls have no gender, that is something of the physical plane of existence. During my perimenopause (likely brought on by having tubes tied after birth of DD) my libido kind of roller coastered up and and down--when it was up it rivaled my drive during the 60s and 70s. But once i went full menopausal and last marriage collapsed--despite my being sexual with him until certain crucial issues like fidelity and possibility of him bringing home an STD came up. i found myself feeling very different. But that's just me.

However i do want to clarify that both Aunt Bea's 'chip on shoulder' comment (as i understood it) and my referral to it were not at all aimed at YOU but rather at those whose get upset about honest mistakes that the person who made really didn't have much to go on (like if a big burly bearded man is wearing a frilly dress how can you be sure whether 'they' want to be called sir or m'am'), or you've only just learned of that person's wishes after years of knowing them under another name or identification.

Edit: you said "Anything else are sexual deviations..." so even someone now asexual like me is a "sexual deviant"? But that name calling is ok because it is accepted and supported by a supposed majority? All these variations have likely always been with humanity but people are being more open about them now.
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A great human post, thank you!
 
All I want to do is fully understand it and stop accidentally referring to the person using regular pronoun usage. It offends them, even though I do my best to remember and to apologize with the caveat that I am still learning to not automatically assign pronouns. My stepdaughter's husband did that with a gender binary person who is a friend of his teenage son's, and she understood completely, and doesn't hold it against him.

Unfortunately, my daughter and some of her friends do not. Which is surprising, since it is obvious I am really trying, and correct myself if I slip up. I am 65 years old, and cannot abruptly change years of habitual speech overnight. I also have to remember to refer to them as person or people instead of as men and women.

Again, this has nothing to do with sexual identity. I have no trouble with the ones I am familiar with: being straight, gay, bisexual, transexual, etc. That all makes sense to me. This does not, and there must be something I'm missing. It's driving me crazy to not know what that is. This also has nothing to do with me not accepting people as they are. I accept them, I like them, I just don't grok their circumstances.

Maybe it will come to me. Sometimes, with my husband's cases, I would think that the situation, as reported by the defendant, did not make sense, but could figure out why. I always had it in the back of my mind, and suddenly it would come to me. My husband's client was the civil plaintiff. And in these cases, the plaintiff was factually innocent, based on the evidence. The defense lawyer's defense was what didn't make sense.
 
WheatenLover said:
I've never heard a gay couple refer to themselves as husband and wife. The guys are both husbands, and the women are both wives.
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Maybe in real life; but in some books I have read in the last year or so it seems to come up. A guy is seen with his wife but the guy's wife is named Fred, Bill, George or something like that. I find this rather confusing! Does a guy go out looking for a another guy who wants to be someone's "wife?" The world is getting way too strange for me since I don't belong to that "circle of people."
 
Wren said:
I refuse to get caught up in this and don’t give it a seconds thought, there are far more important things going on
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I agree Wren. I think if the young people figured out how to stop global warming, stop wars, and stop the world's population exploding, they would be doing something positive. It seems that the rich, spoiled young generation in the rich countries are causing troubles where none existed before. If they lived in countries where there are war zones and people are struggling for water and food, they wouldn't be so "high and mighty" about words. They would be fighting for their lives. I'm certainly not going to follow their ideas and I'm not going to change my way of thinking. A woman is a her/she and a man is a he/guy. I'm the last guy here to be pushed around and worry about pronouns.
 
It’s the little ones I worry about, as young as 3 years old, all the poor little mites should be thinking about is where their next chocolate bar is coming from not what gender they are because they like to play with dolls or toy lorries.....
 
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dseag2 said:
Win, how have you gone from one of my adversaries on this forum to one of my favorites, even though we disagree on so many issues? As I said early on, you are the Yin to my Yang. Even though I frequently disagree with you, I do appreciate your sense of humor and understand what makes you tick. That is what brings us all together.
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@dseag2, yeah, win231 is definitely more in the "Yin" category but at least he has a sense of humor. ;)
 
dseag2 said:
Win, how have you gone from one of my adversaries on this forum to one of my favorites, even though we disagree on so many issues? As I said early on, you are the Yin to my Yang. Even though I frequently disagree with you, I do appreciate your sense of humor and understand what makes you tick. That is what brings us all together.
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Lots of people find me absolutely irresistible, though they don't always admit it. It's..........a gift. :ROFLMAO:
 

There was a time when I was very much confused about the binary/non binary situation. So I educated myself on the subject. I did that because I consider myself a very spiritual person and I wanted to understand, beause everyone created has a place on this planet.

I cannot understand how anyone who say they are "spiritual" cannot do the same and accept humans for who they are. That is beyond my scope of understanding.
 
dseag2 said:
My husband and I have been together for over 30 years and were married several years ago. We didn't feel the need to get married because we have had a very solid relationship, but the financial and health care implications were tremendous. We now file joint taxes, and after I was let go from my 35-year career he went back to work and I'm now on his healthcare. And if one of us becomes ill the other can make medical decisions.

We have both gay and straight friends, and our relationship has lasted longer than many straight people we know. There is no "husband and wife". We are both "husbands". Some on here may not agree with our sexual orientation, but if that had not been the case my mother, who passed away on November 9, would probably not been so well taken care of for 21 years after my father passed away. I had the time to spend with her. Also, she was a Southern Baptist who loved my husband.

As for the "binary" question, I'll admit I don't really understand it either but I do understand that people are born with certain internal feelings that make them identify as either male or female, even if that is not their genetic makeup, so even though I may not understand I respect it.
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Great post, I wish the best for both of you. Happiness matters and good people deserve to share their lives with the same. 💚
 
WheatenLover said:
All I want to do is fully understand it and stop accidentally referring to the person using regular pronoun usage. It offends them, even though I do my best to remember and to apologize with the caveat that I am still learning to not automatically assign pronouns. My stepdaughter's husband did that with a gender binary person who is a friend of his teenage son's, and she understood completely, and doesn't hold it against him.

Unfortunately, my daughter and some of her friends do not. Which is surprising, since it is obvious I am really trying, and correct myself if I slip up. I am 65 years old, and cannot abruptly change years of habitual speech overnight. I also have to remember to refer to them as person or people instead of as men and women.

Again, this has nothing to do with sexual identity. I have no trouble with the ones I am familiar with: being straight, gay, bisexual, transexual, etc. That all makes sense to me. This does not, and there must be something I'm missing. It's driving me crazy to not know what that is. This also has nothing to do with me not accepting people as they are. I accept them, I like them, I just don't grok their circumstances.

Maybe it will come to me. Sometimes, with my husband's cases, I would think that the situation, as reported by the defendant, did not make sense, but could figure out why. I always had it in the back of my mind, and suddenly it would come to me. My husband's client was the civil plaintiff. And in these cases, the plaintiff was factually innocent, based on the evidence. The defense lawyer's defense was what didn't make sense.
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Thank you for originally asking the question and for being willing to understand it all. 👍
 
Okay, I have a better grasp of it after cross-examining my daughter.

The person I am using as an example is male on the outside, female and androgynous on the inside. He isn't a trans person because of the androgynous identity. He isn't a male, except physically. So, one can refer to him as "she" (female) or "they/them" (androgynous), because he is both.

At this point, my daughter told me that she isn't an expert on this. I kept thinking of Data, but he was an android, not androgynous. I did not mention Data to my daughter, thank goodness, because I finally realized that not all androids are androgynous. Or maybe they are, who knows!

Also, binary means either male or female (single gender). So gender binary is the wrong term. It is non-binary, which includes people who have more than two gender identities.

At this point, I'm satisfied that I understand this to the best of my current ability.
 
WheatenLover said:
Okay, I have a better grasp of it after cross-examining my daughter.

The person I am using as an example is male on the outside, female and androgynous on the inside. He isn't a trans person because of the androgynous identity. He isn't a male, except physically. So, one can refer to him as "she" (female) or "they/them" (androgynous), because he is both.

At this point, my daughter told me that she isn't an expert on this. I kept thinking of Data, but he was an android, not androgynous. I did not mention Data to my daughter, thank goodness, because I finally realized that not all androids are androgynous. Or maybe they are, who knows!

Also, binary means either male or female (single gender). So gender binary is the wrong term. It is non-binary, which includes people who have more than two gender identities.

At this point, I'm satisfied that I understand this to the best of my current ability.
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None of us really understand it, but we try our best.
 
Sunny said:
The pronoun stuff is the part that I find impossible. Not because I am supportive or against people being transgender, I just find it impossible to speak English, referring to a single person as "they."

"His daughter said that they are coming to visit him next week." So his daughter is plural?

The Washington Post has changed to this kind of pronoun use, and I sometimes get utterly confused when reading an article. "This artist is showing their work at this gallery next week." (Strangely, this does work when we don't know who the artist is.) Whose work? Being politically correct is one thing, but this is so confusing that I don't think it will ever catch on.

And it's silly. When talking to the transgender individual, we would say, "You" anyway, so what's the big deal about he, she, and they?
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Same here. It's come up in work projects- one client, for example, was irate because I didn't take the 'they' approach, and accused me of being 'sexist'!!!
I've not yet encountered it verbally, but when writing it's difficult and tedious to consistently go 'he or she, he or she, he or she...' or 'the person the person the person...'
 
Wren said:
It’s the little ones I worry about, as young as 3 years old, all the poor little mites should be thinking about is where their next chocolate bar is coming from not what gender they are because they like to play with dolls or toy lorries.....
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That's been my concern, too.. I've noticed when most Seniors talk about their grandchildren, the grandchildren are adults, and some even have adult-aged great-grandchildren, but the oldest of my grandchildren is only 8 years old.
 
WheatenLover said:
What is gender binary, anyway? I know of a guy whose name is Zero because he has no gender.
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That seems an odd name decision to make - when there are so many mainstream unisex names out there that would achieve the same thing - Chris, Lee, Kim etc

I refer to people as he or she unless they ask otherwise - nobody IRL has asked me otherwise but that is what I would do.

I do know a couple of people who have transitioned to opposite to their birth gender - in which case i call them he/she by their transitioned gender - as I would think is obvious they would want.
 
Marcy Sheiner said:
As an editor, I inwardly cringe whenever I use 'they' or 'them' to describe a single person. And I have a good deal of experience with transgendered people.
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It grammatically works i n the abstract, yes?

eg "One should should do as they see fit" seems better than "One should do as he/she sees fit"

But when talking/writing about an actual or specific person, not so much.
 
When I was still working at the my local college, we had 36 terms for gender assigning. One woman with whom I worked had to be referred to as they or them not she or her if using pronouns. In my earlier days at the college, I was making photo IDS for the students. One gentleman, older student, looked older than me came up to have his photo taken. I thought I was being respectful by saying, " sir, would you stand here for the photo please?" Well, I got told off by this student, that not to assume how they identify. He was apparently transitioning to a woman. I've said this before, if you look like a duck, walk like a duck, then you are a duck. :ROFLMAO:

Heck, I don't care if you are purple with yellow polka dots, I respect everyone and treat everyone as equal. However, when it gets to the point that it is now, with all the genders, and the pronouns, and hurting someone's feelings just by making a mistake with a pronoun or whatever, you know what I mean right? Well, I am so glad that I'm retired and don't have to deal with all that now at the college.
 
Aunt Bea said:
When possible I try to use the person’s name.View attachment 195443
I’ve also noticed that most people will let my ignorance slide as long as I’m being sincere and supportive.

The folks that make an issue of it seem to have a chip on their shoulder or some type of an agenda unrelated to me and my bumbling comments.
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I was thinking the same thing. Make an effort to remember the chosen name and do your best. Sincere and supportive is the best way to go. I'm sure they experience quite a few people every day who are quite the opposite.
 
I can't believe this thread has been resurrected, aside from some members being emboldened all of a sudden. ;) In any case, I have difficulty understanding the whole non-binary thing as well. We were watching a competition show on Netflix where some of the contestants were called "they". Every time the judges talked about how "they" either excelled or didn't I thought they were talking about a group of people.

We also recently sailed on a cruise ship with dueling piano players. One was clearly a guy with no makeup who sometimes wore an evening dress and hair clips. Whatever, it was a fairly conservative group and the show was standing-room only every night. I could say it was the spectacle, but they were quite good.

I will say I support however they choose to live their lives and call themselves, whether I understand it or not.
 
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feywon said:
Except the language in the EO was extremely faulty---what he actually did was declare us ALL female because the EO assigns you the gender you had at CONCEPTION. Guess what? All fertilized eggs begin as female!!! It takes a complex series of hormonal influxes to convert them physically to male.
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Yes, it was, and you are absolutely correct.
 
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