I am STUCK in 1969! :)

tbeltrans said:
I trusted the people I was with in Vietnam. If you are a combat veteran, you will understand this. If not, be glad you don't have that experience to live with. I trust my wife. I can't speak for anyone else here, but there are people I have trusted in my life.

Tony
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I was going to mention the military. Of course this is trained loyalty to each other for survival reasons. But even in the military some really creepy stuff happens, even with those you thought you knew.
 

Paco Dennis said:
I was going to mention the military. Of course this is trained loyalty to each other for survival reasons. But even in the military some really creepy stuff happens, even with those you thought you knew.
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Were you in the military? Are you speaking from that personal experience?

Tony
 

Kaila said:
I remember 1969.

On the East coast of USA, for many, it was going to Woodstock.

And many young people were heading out to the West Coast, to find themselves.

Had those of you already found yourselves,
if you were already located there?:unsure:
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My family headed to the west coast right after I graduated high school. I did indeed find myself- or at least a lifestyle and environment much better suited to who I was and wanted to be - which is why I never left.
 
tbeltrans said:
One aspect of the hippie sayings that I got a chuckle of back then and even more now...never trust anyone over 30. Have these people conveniently forgotten that or if not, how do they address it now that they are well over 30? :ROFLMAO:

Tony
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Far too many in our generation traded their gentle, caring, inclusive hippie ideals for the almighty dollar.

Being able to trust people over 30 became an ironic prophecy of the personal futures of many who'd uttered those words ten years earlier. They had no idea that they'd become even less trustworthy than the generation they were vilifiying.
 
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Paco Dennis said:
Why, we all imagine what it is like, plus I have talked talked to many who have been in the military. I appreciate all their views. You seem offended by something, what is it?
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You weren't there, yet you speak of the experience as if you were. You tell us to not trust anybody. I mention a real life situation that I experienced firsthand, a situation in which trust is a necessity to survive, and you respond with some silly hearsay about the weirdness of the military. We all imagine what it is like? I have heard enough, more than enough. I am done with this conversation and will take any further posts from you with a strong grain of salt.

Tony
 
In 1969, I had a good job teaching accelerated math, a contract to write a math text, a lovely wife who taught grade school, a new house (with mortgage) , a workshop, motorycle and a 1968 Dodge Charger that we drove all over the country. Life was conventional, helpful to others and quite good overall.
 
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tbeltrans said:
You weren't there, yet you speak of the experience as if you were. You tell us to not trust anybody. I mention a real life situation that I experienced firsthand, a situation in which trust is a necessity to survive, and you respond with some silly hearsay about the weirdness of the military. We all imagine what it is like? I have heard enough, more than enough. I am done with this conversation and will take any further posts from you with a strong grain of salt.

Tony
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Wow, never meant to run you off. It seems like our imagination is a key element to our ability to navigate our environment. Yes, we imagine things that are silly sometimes. In this case I wasn't there but the press was. We saw it on T.V.. There were hawks and Doves and everywhere in between. After my study of the Viet Nam war, which is extensive, my view is that 1000's of people died needlessly. We shouldn't have been there. A false flag event, "The Tonkin incident", where American destroyer Maddox was supposedly attacked twice by three North Vietnamese torpedo boats in 1964 in the Gulf of Tonkin never happened. What was happening at the time were aggressive South Vietnamese raids against the North in the same general area. Huge American presence wasn't decisive and President Nixon negotiated a "peace with honour" in 1973. This war was lost, when North Vietnam finally conquered South Vietnam in 1975., pushed the nation into believing we needed to go to war with the Viet Cong. ( 9/11, Iraq?)
In our group in New York there was someone killed, forcably raped, many were harassed and beaten up, and an apartment was robbed.

Though you and I are wearing different colored glasses doesn't mean that one pair is right and the other wrong...the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. :)
 
I'm probably stuck musically in 1971, an amazing year in pop music (Who's Next, Led Zeppelin IV, Sticky Fingers, Tupelo Honey, Tapestry, Blue, What's Going On, so many others)

Culturally, I'm probably stuck in 1961. I was only eight or nine years old then but I like the Mad Men era in terms of martinis, suits, cigarettes, bachelor pads, etc. French New Wave movies, novels by Updike and Bellow and Malamud and Walker Percy.

Otherwise, I live in the present with all its pros and cons. What other choice do we have?
 
Paco Dennis said:
Wow, never meant to run you off. It seems like our imagination is a key element to our ability to navigate our environment. Yes, we imagine things that are silly sometimes. In this case I wasn't there but the press was. We saw it on T.V.. There were hawks and Doves and everywhere in between. After my study of the Viet Nam war, which is extensive, my view is that 1000's of people died needlessly. We shouldn't have been there. A false flag event, "The Tonkin incident", where American destroyer Maddox was supposedly attacked twice by three North Vietnamese torpedo boats in 1964 in the Gulf of Tonkin never happened. What was happening at the time were aggressive South Vietnamese raids against the North in the same general area. Huge American presence wasn't decisive and President Nixon negotiated a "peace with honour" in 1973. This war was lost, when North Vietnam finally conquered South Vietnam in 1975., pushed the nation into believing we needed to go to war with the Viet Cong. ( 9/11, Iraq?)
In our group in New York there was someone killed, forcably raped, many were harassed and beaten up, and an apartment was robbed.

Though you and I are wearing different colored glasses doesn't mean that one pair is right and the other wrong...the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. :)
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You missed my point entirely. You weren't there, period. You read about it, heard about it, but you didn't experience the point I was making. You are bringing all manner of philosophy and opinion into it, and I am continuing to cut to the chase. I said in my post about being in Vietnam that if you didn't experience that combat situation, then you wouldn't understand that necessary trust. None of what you are saying here addresses the fact that that you weren't there and therefore didn't experience that single point I was making.

All too often in forums such as this, there are people posting about things they did not experience firsthand with all manner of opinion anyway. We don't know what we don't know. I try to be very clear about the limits of my knowledge and experience, and that is the only point I am focused on here. All the rest of it I am not addressing.

Tony
 
Paco Dennis said:
Wow, never meant to run you off. It seems like our imagination is a key element to our ability to navigate our environment. Yes, we imagine things that are silly sometimes. In this case I wasn't there but the press was. We saw it on T.V.. There were hawks and Doves and everywhere in between. After my study of the Viet Nam war, which is extensive, my view is that 1000's of people died needlessly. We shouldn't have been there. A false flag event, "The Tonkin incident", where American destroyer Maddox was supposedly attacked twice by three North Vietnamese torpedo boats in 1964 in the Gulf of Tonkin never happened. What was happening at the time were aggressive South Vietnamese raids against the North in the same general area. Huge American presence wasn't decisive and President Nixon negotiated a "peace with honour" in 1973. This war was lost, when North Vietnam finally conquered South Vietnam in 1975., pushed the nation into believing we needed to go to war with the Viet Cong. ( 9/11, Iraq?)
In our group in New York there was someone killed, forcably raped, many were harassed and beaten up, and an apartment was robbed.

Though you and I are wearing different colored glasses doesn't mean that one pair is right and the other wrong...the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. :)
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The
Paco Dennis said:
Wow, never meant to run you off. It seems like our imagination is a key element to our ability to navigate our environment. Yes, we imagine things that are silly sometimes. In this case I wasn't there but the press was. We saw it on T.V.. There were hawks and Doves and everywhere in between. After my study of the Viet Nam war, which is extensive, my view is that 1000's of people died needlessly. We shouldn't have been there. A false flag event, "The Tonkin incident", where American destroyer Maddox was supposedly attacked twice by three North Vietnamese torpedo boats in 1964 in the Gulf of Tonkin never happened. What was happening at the time were aggressive South Vietnamese raids against the North in the same general area. Huge American presence wasn't decisive and President Nixon negotiated a "peace with honour" in 1973. This war was lost, when North Vietnam finally conquered South Vietnam in 1975., pushed the nation into believing we needed to go to war with the Viet Cong. ( 9/11, Iraq?)
In our group in New York there was someone killed, forcably raped, many were harassed and beaten up, and an apartment was robbed.

Though you and I are wearing different colored glasses doesn't mean that one pair is right and the other wrong...the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. :)
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The USS Maddox was attacked by three North Vietnamese torpedo boats on August 2, 1964. That is not in dispute. What was made up was a second attack on August 4. Our ships were firing at radar "ghosts" and this morphed into a second incident. LBJ used these as a pretext for pushing Congress into a resolution allowing for direct participation by the US.

The history of Vietnam is very complicated. I recommend Max Hastings' recent book on the subject Vietnam, an Epic Tragedy 1945-1975, which is quite objective.

We negotiated "peace with honor" with North Vietnam in 1973. In 1975, after we had left, the North Vietnamese (dishonorably) violated the peace accords and invaded the South. They executed thousands of South Vietnamese, imprisoned and "reeducated" hundreds of thousands more, and drove as many as 1.5 million into exile as "boat people." (About 200,000 of these are thought to have died from drowning and/or exposure).

It was a miserable episode in American history, but it's worth thinking about the absolutely vile nature of the regime we fought against.
 
Paco Dennis said:
I completely understand what you are saying. Do you understand what I am saying? Were you "there"?
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I was there in Vietnam and that is the single point I was addressing. I asked two very simple and direct questions of you (Were you in the military? Are you speaking from that personal experience?) and you answered that you were not in the military and not speaking from personal experience. End of story, end of conversation. The rest of the content of your posts in the conversation are really another conversation entirely, and one I am not interested in pursuing. It appears you have other takers, so have at it with them.

Tony
 
tbeltrans said:
I was there in Vietnam and that is the single point I was addressing. I asked two very simple and direct questions of you (Were you in the military? Are you speaking from that personal experience?) and you answered that you were not in the military and not speaking from personal experience. End of story, end of conversation. The rest of the content of your posts in the conversation are really another conversation entirely, and one I am not interested in pursuing. It appears you have other takers, so have at it with them.

Tony
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This conversation is with you. Your intent on asking me those 2 questions are obvious. The world is NOT OBVIOUS! Maybe you could take off those army boots and put on my pair of sandals? :)
 
Paco Dennis said:
This conversation is with you. Your intent on asking me those 2 questions are obvious. The world is NOT OBVIOUS! Maybe you could take off those army boots and put on my pair of sandals? :)
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Don't you EVER speak to another Vietnam veteran that way. There are several others here. I have put you on ignore, so there is no point in you responding to this post. Just stop right here, right now.

Tony
 
Paco Dennis said:
Ok I will do the same with you. Fun isn't it?
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When military service becomes the joke you make of it...no, it isn't fun and I seriously doubt any other veterans in this forum appreciate it either. You should be ashamed, but I realize you simply don't have that capacity to understand just what you are talking about without the real world experience behind it. Fortunately, there are plenty of civilians who respect the military and those who served.

Tony
 


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