I don't think she looks bad for 81!

I think she looks lovely, i don't know what their problem is,i have always liked Kim, on the other hand did anyone see Liza Minnelli at the Oscars, black hair with a bright blue stripe, i don't think so, and her outfit was strange as well:magnify:
 
Jillaroo said:
I think she looks lovely, i don't know what their problem is,i have always liked Kim, on the other hand did anyone see Liza Minnelli at the Oscars, black hair with a bright blue stripe, i don't think so, and her outfit was strange as well:magnify:
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I've yet to catch the Oscar coverage but my gut is that Minelli would have looked bizzare. She's had a lot of wear and tear and it shows.
 
rkunsaw said:
I think Kim Novak has always looked great. And still does.

I don't think Liza Minnelli has ever looked great. And still doesn't
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I concur. I'd say to be fair though that Minell is the greater talent. But she abused herself with drugs and alcohol. It's a brutal business and that isn't unusual plus she could have inherited her mother's genetic propensity for alcohol/drug abuse.
 
SifuPhil said:
So we should give Novak a break because of her health problems, but not Minnelli?
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You're off target now. I said she had more wear and tear and that's down to her own self-imposed health problems of alcohol and drug abuse. That she also developed other ailments may or may not be related to that. But that she looks the worse for wear certainly is.

Novak has battled cancer, doesn't have a history of self abuse and is much older then Minelli.
 
Gael said:
You're off target now. I said she had more wear and tear and that's down to her own self-imposed health problems of alcohol and drug abuse. That she also developed other ailments may or may not be related to that. But that she looks the worse for wear certainly is.

Novak has battled cancer, doesn't have a history of self abuse and is much older then Minelli.
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You're not catching what I'm saying, I think ... health problems that derive from drug and alcohol abuse are not seen by clinics nor associations dealing with those problems as being that person's fault - always the blame goes to genetics, or society, or childhood trauma.

Therefore, how would cancer be considered any more of a disease than drug or alcohol addiction? They are all "thrust upon" their victims, at least to hear the PC crowd tell it.

As an aside, Kim has also confessed to being bipolar and is supposedly taking medication for it.
 
SifuPhil said:
You're not catching what I'm saying, I think ... health problems that derive from drug and alcohol abuse are not seen by clinics nor associations dealing with those problems as being that person's fault - always the blame goes to genetics, or society, or childhood trauma.

Therefore, how would cancer be considered any more of a disease than drug or alcohol addiction? They are all "thrust upon" their victims, at least to hear the PC crowd tell it.

As an aside, Kim has also confessed to being bipolar and is supposedly taking medication for it.
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I don't agree about people who abuse alcohol not having a choice at all. And there's no "confession" concerning being bi-polar. That you really don't have a choice about and must takes meds for. You really are off target now.
 
Gael said:
I don't agree about people who abuse alcohol not having a choice at all. And there's no "confession" concerning being bi-polar. That you really don't have a choice about and must takes meds for. You really are off target now.
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Not at all.

I guess you haven't sat in on hearings for chronic alcohol and drug abusers - it's always society's fault. "Society has failed them, Your Honor" ... we give them free treatment, set them up in paid apartments, give them free transportation, even buy them food, all on the government dole because "it isn't their fault".

The Age of Self-Accountability is dead.

When you're a Hollywood star with an arduously-built background story and "character", admitting you're bi-polar IS a confession. She only said it in 2010, long after her career was over, but she had been bi-polar throughout most of that career.

As another aside, you don't NEED to take meds for bi-polar disorder; it's only what is commonly (and easily) done.
 
SifuPhil said:
Not at all.

I guess you haven't sat in on hearings for chronic alcohol and drug abusers - it's always society's fault. "Society has failed them, Your Honor" ... we give them free treatment, set them up in paid apartments, give them free transportation, even buy them food, all on the government dole because "it isn't their fault".

The Age of Self-Accountability is dead.

When you're a Hollywood star with an arduously-built background story and "character", admitting you're bi-polar IS a confession. She only said it in 2010, long after her career was over, but she had been bi-polar throughout most of that career.

As another aside, you don't NEED to take meds for bi-polar disorder; it's only what is commonly (and easily) done.
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Sorry if you are bi-polar you need medication. And in most cases it's lithium; no walk in the park. I have had inlaws, and close friends who are bi-polar and they also can use therapy but they do need meds.
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/bipolar_disorder_medications.htm


I'll end this debate which has become rather redundant by saying that the difference between your appearance being affected by alcohol and drug abuse and just aging is significant. Minelli has that to thank herself for, unfortunately. And that you are even comparing recreational drugs with medication for bi-polar disorder is ludicrous.

And I would note that Novak was a great beauty in her day; Minelli never was. But I would add she's very talented but not in the looks department.

Signing off now as this has become an unproductive debate and tedious and I need to make dinner here as it's near 6pm in the UK.
 
I couldn't care less what movie stars do or don't do to their faces, but I liked John Kerry's face much better with all the sags and wrinkles than with whatever he has had done to it.
 
I think it's ironic that when celebrities go under the knife to gain/regain their glamor, the only thing many accomplish is eliciting the negative response of their fans because now they look so odd/bizarre.
 
Well, what I find sad is that I saw her interviewed on a cruise for Turner Classic Movies?? She just looked lovely, and this was within the last year I believe. Then I saw the news she had some work done and I think she look lovely like I said, before, but not after:( I don't know what is going on in the minds of these folks. How many "bad" surgeries do they need to see before they stop believing in some fountain of youth:( I look at someone like Audrey Hepburn, who as far as I know, never used any surgery/botox. I really think people are beautiful as they grow old, not ugly. Someone had some photos up not too long ago here, of a pic of a really old guy, like a fisherman or something. Every lines was like a story of his life, and his eyes were so beautiful.

That's how I see it anyway. I do think it is terrible how the gossip mongers love to harass the folks that try for dear life, to regain their youth. There are times when I cry over growing old, sometimes just out of fear, sometimes just vanity, wishing I had it all back. But on the whole, I have had a great life. I'm really glad I'm poor so I am not tempted to do something like the stars do, or other rich folks.

I am sad for Kim, she lives right down on the Rogue River, not too far south of me. She has a neat husband that's a vet and they have lots of animals. She seemed so happy when she was interviewed, but I guess she didn't see the beauty her fans all did during that interview.
 
nwlady said:
Well, what I find sad is that I saw her interviewed on a cruise for Turner Classic Movies?? She just looked lovely, and this was within the last year I believe. Then I saw the news she had some work done and I think she look lovely like I said, before, but not after:( I don't know what is going on in the minds of these folks. How many "bad" surgeries do they need to see before they stop believing in some fountain of youth:( I look at someone like Audrey Hepburn, who as far as I know, never used any surgery/botox. I really think people are beautiful as they grow old, not ugly. Someone had some photos up not too long ago here, of a pic of a really old guy, like a fisherman or something. Every lines was like a story of his life, and his eyes were so beautiful.

That's how I see it anyway. I do think it is terrible how the gossip mongers love to harass the folks that try for dear life, to regain their youth. There are times when I cry over growing old, sometimes just out of fear, sometimes just vanity, wishing I had it all back. But on the whole, I have had a great life. I'm really glad I'm poor so I am not tempted to do something like the stars do, or other rich folks.

I am sad for Kim, she lives right down on the Rogue River, not too far south of me. She has a neat husband that's a vet and they have lots of animals. She seemed so happy when she was interviewed, but I guess she didn't see the beauty her fans all did during that interview.
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They fall into the trap of seeking eternal youth. Which is an impossibility of course. The business they're in puts enormous emphasis and worth on physical appeal so the pressure is on.

It takes a lot of strength to resist but some do. A good example is Sophia Loren who has aged naturally and still retains her grace and beauty.

Even with the best of plastic surgeons available to many celebs, they still never can look as they did in their youth. They usually just wind up looking artificial, not young.
 
Well I think its wonderful for Kim to look like that and at 81 , who cares what treatment she has had.. she just looks
great and was so beautiful when she was young... you know my mother in law used to say to me and at 92, "well
Rainee I am never going to grow old." and she never did.. she kept up her modern ideas and loved to keep herself young.
bless her heart she passed away at 94 from a worn out old heart.. she worked jolly hard in her early years in Cornwall , life was so hard during the depression years.. bless all the lovely elderly people who are looking after them selves.Its just so wonderful to see ..
 
Rainee said:
Well I think its wonderful for Kim to look like that and at 81 , who cares what treatment she has had.. she just looks
great and was so beautiful when she was young... you know my mother in law used to say to me and at 92, "well
Rainee I am never going to grow old." and she never did.. she kept up her modern ideas and loved to keep herself young.
bless her heart she passed away at 94 from a worn out old heart.. she worked jolly hard in her early years in Cornwall , life was so hard during the depression years.. bless all the lovely elderly people who are looking after them selves.Its just so wonderful to see ..
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That sort of attitude and spirit your mother in law displayed is the best anti-aging route to go!
 
Gael said:
They fall into the trap of seeking eternal youth. Which is an impossibility of course. The business they're in puts enormous emphasis and worth on physical appeal so the pressure is on.

It takes a lot of strength to resist but some do. A good example is Sophia Loren who has aged naturally and still retains her grace and beauty.

Even with the best of plastic surgeons available to many celebs, they still never can look as they did in their youth. They usually just wind up looking artificial, not young.
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Really well-said Gael;)
 
nwlady said:
Really well-said Gael;)
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TY nw. I think that the film industry is about the worst with the pressures put on perfomers to stay young and beautiful. They can lose work and are subject to public scrutiny and ridicule if they don't measure up.

Kim looks like she's had a typical old style lift with that pull around the mouth. But even the newer techniques such as fillers simply cannot turn back the hands of time.

 
Narcissism rears its ugly head . . .

develop-your-own-personality_tips-high-school-dating.jpg
 
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