Immigrant caravan

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Traveler said:
Lets look at the raw numbers, last year there were 312,311 thousand arrests of illegals who had crossed the border. That breaks down to 855/day. Lets say that 33% of them were children. That would be 282 children returning to Central America/day. One single plane load /day. An easy task.
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reminds me of a CPA I once worked around
coming to a meeting with a printout
'if we just got rid of the restrooms we'd save....'

Traveler, putting 282 kids on a plane is truly the easiest part of that synopsis
however
dispersing to 282 relatives...per day...maybe not so easy

I do appreciate reading your views

I might interject an 'if I were president' thought
I'd look within
remove the freebees....any
raise/enforce employer fines for hiring illegals

save a few bucks, make a few bucks

seems there'd be less interest in viewing our nation as candyland without contending with outside help, of which in dealing, would create even more issues

seems

I'm sure you'll enjoy yer trip thru the redwoods...always fascinating

safe travels
 

There is a bigger picture than the small amount that ended up at the border waiting for their amnesty appeal to be heard. Absolutely no doubt poverty & living conditions where they come from are something they want to get away from. The real question is for how long and how many can America absorb of those? Success in gaining entry legally thru the amnesty process is bound to generate more seeking entry to America.


I don't think I'll live long enough to see the effect of this.


Hispanic and Latino Americans accounted for 48% of the national population growth of 2.9 million between July 1, 2005, and July 1, 2006.[18] Immigrants and their U.S.-born descendants are expected to provide most of the U.S. population gains in the decades ahead.[19]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States


Toss in job loss due to technology, emerging economies competing with America for manufactured products, the predictions concerning social security & medicare. The list of reasons for demands on the tax base increases. Given that, 2nd. world if not 3rd. world status years from now doesn't seem impossible to me.


Traveler ain't nature awe inspiring, Enjoy the fresh air & outdoors, while you can.
 

In a March 2018 report, the Congressional Budget Office noted that a lower labor force participation rate is associated with lower gross domestic product and lower tax revenues. It is also associated with larger federal outlays, because people who are not in the labor force are more likely to enroll in federal benefit programs, including Social Security.


This past January, the Congressional Budget Office projected that the labor force participation rate will continue to decline over the next 30 years from the current 62.8 percent to 61.0 percent in 2027 and to 59.2 percent in 2047.
https://www.cnsnews.com/news/articl...ericans-not-participating-labor-force-boomers


Meanwhile unskilled people from south of the border & a few other non Hispanic countries continue to illegally invade America. In my recent post about America's economic position in the world looking shaky to me, I thought I might be to pessimistic. After reading about population gain by Hispanics and the decline in the labor participation rate. Countries without borders may become a fact years from now. The good news is it won't cost taxpayers to convert to two languages for government services. Although it could come down to when calling "press #2 for English".
 
Knight said:
There is a bigger picture than the small amount that ended up at the border waiting for their amnesty appeal to be heard. Absolutely no doubt poverty & living conditions where they come from are something they want to get away from. The real question is for how long and how many can America absorb of those? Success in gaining entry legally thru the amnesty process is bound to generate more seeking entry to America.
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I think we are currently living in the "Peak" of Western civilization. The past few decades....from about 1950...have seen some of the Best times for the Middle Class in the nations history. However, Global demographics and overpopulation of the worlds most underprivileged is quickly leading to a crisis. While the birth rates of "traditional" populations of North America and Europe...and even nations like Japan...have largely stabilized, and even begun to decline, the populations in Latin America, and Africa are ballooning. These increasing populations are ill equipped to handle the challenges posed by technology, and the reduced need for manual labor. The gaps between those able to support themselves, and those who must rely on "welfare" will only continue to grow. While the U.S. is being overrun by Latino refugees, Europe is seeing a massive influx of those trying to escape the awful conditions in Africa and parts of the Middle East. At some point....and not very far into the future....there is going to be a time when those who are self sufficient, and able to pay taxes, etc., are going to rebel at the increasing demands being placed on "social" needs. We are going to see a "global" conflict that will determine the future of Humanity...and it will Not be nation vs. nation, but basically the Haves, vs. the Have Nots.

A UN study back in the late 1990's placed the sustainable global Human population at around 5.8 billion. We are already well over 7 billion, headed for 9 billion by mid-century, and potentially 12 billion by the year 2200. Just as there may be a "tipping point" in Climate Change, there will also be a "point of no return" with Human population. When those who are working see a major portion of their assets going to those who haven't the means, or the willingness to share the load, the situation will quickly deteriorate.

Bringing large number of uneducated and unskilled people into our society is going to prove to be an unsustainable burden.
 
Don M. said:
A UN study back in the late 1990's placed the sustainable global Human population at around 5.8 billion. We are already well over 7 billion, headed for 9 billion by mid-century, and potentially 12 billion by the year 2200. Just as there may be a "tipping point" in Climate Change, there will also be a "point of no return" with Human population. When those who are working see a major portion of their assets going to those who haven't the means, or the willingness to share the load, the situation will quickly deteriorate.
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A lot to consider, Don, certainly is
History shows quite a few 200 year spans of ruling nations
Economy played huge roles
Wars actually helped, in a weird way
Can’t imagine an all-out war now
Folks get skittish thinking about the ‘what ifs’
Living off grid for three years, my friends in town tell me that’s the way when TSHTF
Heh, for a few weeks, months tops

The realities are no less than overwhelming
We exist, any economy exits, via one thing…confidence

At present, China wants to have confidence in America and Europe
The Chinese are quite robust at present
But they know what they must have to thrive
They need a confident customer

It’s a world thing now
Africa, India…too volatile
Mexico, all of America, too expensive
Indonesia, tapped out
Europe, hanging, watching, hoping
Russia, weird, withdrawn, a somewhat inter-economy (buying from the company store)

Our next generation?
Hope is tough to maintain

Answers?
I got nuthin’

Maybe biblical prophecy coming to fruition

Maybe, if we have time, we (humans) can find our way to another, sustainable planet

Heh, who then would be the illegal aliens?
 
I'm sure we already have a base on Mars, (just my BS)
Gary O' said:
A lot to consider, Don, certainly is
History shows quite a few 200 year spans of ruling nations
Economy played huge roles
Wars actually helped, in a weird way
Can’t imagine an all-out war now
Folks get skittish thinking about the ‘what ifs’
Living off grid for three years, my friends in town tell me that’s the way when TSHTF
Heh, for a few weeks, months tops

The realities are no less than overwhelming
We exist, any economy exits, via one thing…confidence

At present, China wants to have confidence in America and Europe
The Chinese are quite robust at present
But they know what they must have to thrive
They need a confident customer

It’s a world thing now
Africa, India…too volatile
Mexico, all of America, too expensive
Indonesia, tapped out
Europe, hanging, watching, hoping

Our next generation?
Hope is tough to maintain

Answers?
I got nuthin’

Maybe biblical prophecy coming to fruition

Maybe, if we have time, we (humans) can find our way to another, sustainable planet

Heh, who then would be the illegal aliens?
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Takes off from Edwards Air force Base, you take a guess what I'm talking about, now I'm just BS ing. I don't know anything
 
I've got to go, a friend of mind is having his ship refitted with a rail gun , I've got to talk with him, I'm going to see his mom in the morning
 
"200 or so illegals have exposed to the whole world now, the immigration loop-hole in our law that has allowed illegals into our country. They're given a court date, notice to appear, and then POOF, they disappear into our society, and never show up for their asylum hearing. Instead, they head up to the swap meet in Los Angeles, and buy fraudulent papers, social security cards with numbers, photo ID, whatever they want. Then they're off to the races, free housing, free food, free medical care, and of course the freedom to thumb their nose at our culture and demand that we speak spanish and we press one for english...all the while, dumping the customs and culture of their depraved vile lawless third world society into our society.

The question is, how many more caravans will exploit our porous border and the swiss-cheese-like immigration law before THIS republic becomes a hell-hole third world country like the one they just left?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAzaArF2GEY

I noticed a member posted they would always support the poor no matter what. Several other members here agreed with her post. That is very sweet. I too have always helped the poor, and for that matter America as a whole has always helped the poor...more than any other nation. But if caravans continue pouring into our country and manipulate the system, never to assimilate, is this sustainable?
 
Lara said:
"200 or so illegals have exposed to the whole world now, the immigration loop-hole in our law that has allowed illegals into our country. They're given a court date, notice to appear, and then POOF, they disappear into our society, and never show up for their asylum hearing. Instead, they head up to the swap meet in Los Angeles, and buy fraudulent papers, social security cards with numbers, photo ID, whatever they want. Then they're off to the races, free housing, free food, free medical care,and of course the freedom to thumb their nose at our culture and demand that we speak spanish and we press one for english...all the while, dumping the customs and culture of their depraved vile lawless third world society into our society.

The question is, how many more caravans will exploit our porous border and the swiss-cheese-like immigration law before THIS republic becomes a hell-hole third world country like the one they just left?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAzaArF2GEY

I noticed a member posted they would always support the poor no matter what. Several other members here agreed with her post. That is very sweet. I too have always helped the poor, and for that matter America as a whole has always helped the poor...more than any other nation. But if caravans continue pouring into our country and manipulate the system, never to assimilate, is this sustainable?
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sigh -- you can't get free housing and food even if you are a citizen, unless you are in prison. And, the so-called caravan did not exploit our porous borders -- the people in it came asking for asylum, as they are legally entitled to do, and were legally admitted into the US to await the outcome of their requests for asylum. I am not denying that some may cheat to get what benefits they can, particularly in California, but to say they will all do that is a bit hyperbolic, to say the least. I would also point out that the "depraved, vile, lawless third world society" is precisely what they are seeking asylum from.

Probably people made the same statements about the Jews attempting to come to America aboard the ill-fated St. Louis, seeking asylum, which ship was forced to return to Germany where most of the passengers were murdered by the Nazis in their depraved, lawless, vile society.
 
Butterfly said:
sigh -- you can't get free housing and food even if you are a citizen
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Southern CA has the most expensive real estate and rent in the US besides SF and NYC. Do you think these people come over the border with millions of dollars each in their pockets? Where do you think they will live? How will they buy food? What about medical care? Transportation? They don't have any money. They are taken care of by the taxpayers. Some are pregnant and go to the emergency rooms in our hospitals and get free delivery.

Butterfly said:
...the people in [caravans] came asking for asylum, as they are legally entitled to do, and were legally admitted into the US to await the outcome of their requests for asylum. I am not denying that some may cheat to get what benefits they can, particularly in California
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My source used (in quotes with youtube link) wasn't talking about citizens. He's talking about 200 illegals who were granted entry w/benefits into the US because they used the word "asylum". They are still illegals until they show up for their court date and begin the legal process at their hearing. But many don't show up for their hearing and go to the LA swap meet for their fake IDs.

Butterfly said:
The so-called caravan did not exploit our porous borders, they came asking for asylum
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The word is out to use the "asylum" card because of the instant free benefits you receive that our legal citizens don't get. Yes there is cheating going on, lots of it. Some of the children are not even their own.

Butterfly said:
I would also point out that the "depraved, vile, lawless third world society" is precisely what they are seeking asylum from
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Yes they are seeking the American dream and there are some who are honest and become productive citizens but when they arrive in mass caravans we need to be very careful to vet those from the lawless ones. That's why we need a wall and heightened border security...and take our time, oh, and cooperation from California leaders who aren't following our Constitutional laws. They're ignoring ICE, plus warning and protecting illegals even, etc. Is that fair to the honest law abiding aliens who worked their way toward legal citizenship?
 
So many good points on both sides of this issue.

So what IS a good and fair immigration policy and why can't we have one?

Or if you think our immigration policy IS fair why are so many fighting against it?
 
hearlady said:
So many good points on both sides of this issue.

So what IS a good and fair immigration policy and why can't we have one?

Or if you think our immigration policy IS fair why are so many fighting against it?
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Those are 2 excellent questions but require a complicated lengthy answer. But the short of it is that we do have a good immigration plan but politics and egos, which is vastly complex, are causing it not to be fully approved nor fully funded...and is slowing down the process which is putting the safety of our country in jeopardy more and more the longer we take.

Another thing is that some people just aren't looking far enough into the future. Desperate times require desperate changes. It's a different world now.

Another thing is that California is not cooperating because they want illegals working in the fields at below minimum wages so there is more profit for themselves. The illegals take many jobs that Americans would do if the pay was fair. Pay should be fair and jobs should go to legal citizens, whether they are Mexican-American citizens or otherwise.....legal is the key word.
 
hearlady said:
So many good points on both sides of this issue.

So what IS a good and fair immigration policy and why can't we have one?

Or if you think our immigration policy IS fair why are so many fighting against it?
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As I remember the LEGAL WAY is to go to a consulate and speak with representatives of the US government. The representatives then start the screening and search for appropriate places to go to and lots of other LEGAL and helpful ways of helping get those desiring to cross the border.

We should end this ILLEGAL crossing of our borders as it makes it difficult for those LEGALLY attempting to get permission to enter, which is the only LEGAL way to do it.
 
We should end this ILLEGAL crossing of our borders as it makes it difficult for those LEGALLY attempting to get permission to enter, which is the only LEGAL way to do it.
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Bob, that all sounds very correct and high-minded. But realistically, how? Saying "we should" is meaningless when we are confronted with a big surge of desperate humanity.

It seems to me that the only way to stop the illegal crossing is to make it all legal. If we did that, we would have no national borders; people would just be free to come and go as they please. Maybe some day in the future, that will happen. Not in our lifetimes.

Nothing else would work, not even draconian measures such as killing anyone who tries to enter illegally. People would still find a way to do it.

But from all that I have read, immigration from our southern border has diminished considerably. The life awaiting illegal immigrants is not measurably better than the life they left behind. And economic conditions have improved in Mexico. This whole "caravan" thing is a bugaboo work of fiction, designed to scare up the masses to respond at the polls.
 
Sunny;818205 said:
It seems to me that the only way to stop the illegal crossing is to make it all legal. If we did that, we would have no national borders; people would just be free to come and go as they please. Maybe some day in the future, that will happen. Not in our lifetimes.
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Is no borders and the vision of people moving where ever they please realistic?


I think rather than poverty being eliminated which I suppose is the expectation. IMO the reality would be more along the lines of no middle class with only wealthy and poor as the end result.


No borders would could mean boatloads of people from every country in our world.


http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats


I'm don't share your vision of no borders resolving illegal entry so I'll ask where would the 1st. country of opportunity be & what would be the the consequences?
 

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