bye
Is Faith a Gift?
- Thread starter spectratg
- Start date
BlueDragonfly
Senior
- Location
- Florida
So basically, you expect us to answer a question about God, using our thoughts/opinions instead of His Word?
Generally, I don't even try to answer a question when it has stipulations of what I can or cannot say..... just sorry that you handicapped yourself from the OP of getting true, honest and factual answers. :/
That said, "belief" in God is not a gift handed out. Salvation is the gift for believing.
Good luck finding answers.
I think we ignored his strict stipulations as from someone with a complete lack of understanding about "faith"So basically, you expect us to answer a question about God, using our thoughts/opinions instead of His Word?
Generally, I don't even try to answer a question when it has stipulations of what I can or cannot say..... just sorry that you handicapped yourself from the OP of getting true, honest and factual answers. :/
That said, "belief" in God is not a gift handed out. Salvation is the gift for believing.
Good luck finding answers.
BlueDragonfly
Senior
- Location
- Florida
When mini programmed chat bots are an 'acceptable' source of information, and God isn't....... this world has done fell off it's axis! lol
As an atheist, I'm curious about what the similarities and differences are between believing in God and having *faith* are.
BlueDragonfly
Senior
- Location
- Florida
Believing in God - you know He is there. Judas certainly 'believed' in the Christ. Lucifer (satan) believes in God. So do the demons from hell.
Faith - trusting in Him that He is THE God who created the heavens and the earth, and all things therein. Trusting His Word, that His only son came to earth to die for our sins and save us.
Michael Z
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern Wisconsin
The words “believes in” as used to imply faith resulting in salvation, such as in John 3:16, translates to “entrusts” if you look up the Greek word. So saving faith is synonymous with ”believing in”. To “believe in“ someone means you trust that person completely and fully, like “I believe in” my dear friend or family member who I have designated as my power of attorney. You trust they will act in your best interest.
To simply ”believe in the existence“ of something does not necessarily imply trust, and does not necessarily have the element of faith, as it is used concerning salvation. To say “I believe there is a God” does not necessarily imply you trust that this God you believe exists acts in your best interests.
Last edited:
BlueDragonfly
Senior
- Location
- Florida
And then there is the whole "believe in" vs "believe on". But, it's too early in the morning for my brain to sort that into a post. LOL
Capt Lightning
Well-known Member
- Location
- Historic Buchan, Scotland
My parents were instrumental in my rejection of 'God' - or at the very least, the sort of God they believed in. The real problem was that they accepted what they had been told without question. They were unable to justify that belief and when I argued a point, all I got was , 'that's just God's way'. More and more I started to question the reality of 'God' eventually came to the conclusion that people only believed because they had no other answers and wanted some reassurance.
Victor
Senior Member
- Location
- midwest USA
I never received this "gift" and don't need or want it. I don't want a crutch either. I would return it, it is no gift...it's a stubborn and naive belief in supernatural divinity, atheists reject it strongly.
MACKTEXAS
Senior Member
But your second question assumes that the answer to your first question is a yes. What if it isn't? Some theologians disagree, but I see faith as simply believing, whereas grace is the gift (from God).
"What about a person who has never received that gift?" What about them? If they have no faith, they will not receive that gift.
You also wrote: "I am not interested in quotes from the Bible, or the tenets of you own particular religion." Please note, I didn't quote the Bible, but when questions are based on religious tenets, it is unavoidable that the answers will be also.
MACKTEXAS
Senior Member
Good point.Generally, I don't even try to answer a question when it has stipulations of what I can or cannot say.....
Good luck finding answers.
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
Many seekers through human history have expected the benefits to faith are only in this life alone. Thus, they are blind to the vastly greater potential gift of eternal life. And that especially includes modern teachings of our many religions just as it was in the Old Testament era when the benefit of god beliefs was material/political like with all earlier Mesopotamian city state civilizations. Humans with selfish, sinful, evil, lying behaviors for the sake of competitive advantages, by acting during their lives on the "Original Sin" of we competitive Earth creatures, will reject the value of faith for something merely moral and ethical they cannot directly experience benefit.
1 Corinthians 15:19, (St. Paul)
"If in Christ we have hoped in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied." This verse implies that if believers have only earthly hopes in Christ, and deny the future resurrection, they are the most miserable.
I would like to thank @Naturally for his two AI generated responses that better summarize what I might have wrote. The below are excerpts from the Catholic catechism more thoroughly explained at this link.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
154 Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. But it is no less true that believing is an authentically human act. Trusting in God and cleaving to the truths he has revealed is contrary neither to human freedom nor to human reason...
156 What moves us to believe is not the fact that revealed truths appear as true and intelligible in the light of our natural reason: we believe "because of the authority of God himself who reveals them, who can neither deceive nor be deceived". 28 So "that the submission of our faith might nevertheless be in accordance with reason, God willed that external proofs of his Revelation should be joined to the internal helps of the Holy Spirit."
29 Thus the miracles of Christ and the saints, prophecies, the Church's growth and holiness, and her fruitfulness and stability "are the most certain signs of divine Revelation, adapted to the intelligence of all"; they are "motives of credibility" (motiva credibilitatis), which show that the assent of faith is "by no means a blind impulse of the mind". 30
58 "Faith seeks understanding": 33 it is intrinsic to faith that a believer desires to know better the One in whom he has put his faith, and to understand better what He has revealed; a more penetrating knowledge will in turn call forth a greater faith, increasingly set afire by love...
159 Faith and science: "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth." 37
"Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are." 38
164 Now, however, "we walk by faith, not by sight"; 49 we perceive God as "in a mirror, dimly" and only "in part". 50 Even though enlightened by him in whom it believes, faith is often lived in darkness and can be put to the test. The world we live in often seems very far from the one promised us by faith. Our experiences of evil and suffering, injustice and death, seem to contradict the Good News; they can shake our faith and become a temptation against it.
---------------------------
Per section 159, a reason this person does not believe non-scriptural nonsense actions without forces, magic-like OOO, anything imaginable is possible miracles.
1 Corinthians 15:19, (St. Paul)
"If in Christ we have hoped in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied." This verse implies that if believers have only earthly hopes in Christ, and deny the future resurrection, they are the most miserable.
I would like to thank @Naturally for his two AI generated responses that better summarize what I might have wrote. The below are excerpts from the Catholic catechism more thoroughly explained at this link.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
154 Believing is possible only by grace and the interior helps of the Holy Spirit. But it is no less true that believing is an authentically human act. Trusting in God and cleaving to the truths he has revealed is contrary neither to human freedom nor to human reason...
156 What moves us to believe is not the fact that revealed truths appear as true and intelligible in the light of our natural reason: we believe "because of the authority of God himself who reveals them, who can neither deceive nor be deceived". 28 So "that the submission of our faith might nevertheless be in accordance with reason, God willed that external proofs of his Revelation should be joined to the internal helps of the Holy Spirit."
29 Thus the miracles of Christ and the saints, prophecies, the Church's growth and holiness, and her fruitfulness and stability "are the most certain signs of divine Revelation, adapted to the intelligence of all"; they are "motives of credibility" (motiva credibilitatis), which show that the assent of faith is "by no means a blind impulse of the mind". 30
58 "Faith seeks understanding": 33 it is intrinsic to faith that a believer desires to know better the One in whom he has put his faith, and to understand better what He has revealed; a more penetrating knowledge will in turn call forth a greater faith, increasingly set afire by love...
159 Faith and science: "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth." 37
"Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are." 38
164 Now, however, "we walk by faith, not by sight"; 49 we perceive God as "in a mirror, dimly" and only "in part". 50 Even though enlightened by him in whom it believes, faith is often lived in darkness and can be put to the test. The world we live in often seems very far from the one promised us by faith. Our experiences of evil and suffering, injustice and death, seem to contradict the Good News; they can shake our faith and become a temptation against it.
---------------------------
Per section 159, a reason this person does not believe non-scriptural nonsense actions without forces, magic-like OOO, anything imaginable is possible miracles.
Last edited:
Naturally
Well-known Member
- Location
- Corner of Walk 'n Don't Walk
That’s a powerful sentiment and one a lot of people resonate with in different ways. The growing reliance on technology, especially things like AI or chatbots, can feel disorienting or even unsettling when it seems to replace deeper, more traditional sources of meaning like faith or divine guidance.
You're pointing to a real tension: information versus wisdom, data versus truth with a capital "T." Mini programmed chatbots can retrieve and organize information quickly, but don't replace spiritual discernment, moral grounding, or lived human experience. And definitely not God, for those who believe.
Many people today are wrestling with how to balance trust in technology with trust in their values, faith, and traditions. That doesn’t mean the world is beyond repair, but it does mean we’re at a crossroads, and your observation is part of the necessary dialogue.
CaliS
New Member
I heard this, for the first time, about two weeks ago and I have to agree that Faith IS a gift.
Those who have not received that gift? That's a personal thing, individual to each of us.
spectratg
Senior Member
- Location
- Adamstown, MD
Thank you. Finally an opinion that makes sense to me.
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
As I posted above that may be difficult to comprehend within it's abstract catechist terms, tersely, faith is beyond being a gift, because to receive the gift of faith through the Holy Spirit, a person must from a basis of free choice, embrace a Christian moral attitude that purposely seeks God.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Well, how about it? What are the consequences of such a conclusion?
I imagine a certain kind of freedom, but you must now determine your own moral code, or is it all laissez faire from that moment on?
I had no trouble continuing to follow the basic moral teaching of my days in the Sunday School, but I was very troubled when I fell short of my own moral code. Forgetting is not the same as forgiveness. I was pretty hard on myself when I did something that caused me to feel shame.
My conversion journey from scientific atheism began with the words, "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", (Rom 3:23). To hear them was such a relief. It meant that I was forgivable.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
You've nailed it.
lovely to hear some personal experiences with the scriptures ; started me browsing and I came across this:
The phrase "all scripture is good for teaching" comes from the Bible, specifically 2 Timothy 3:16, which states that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness." This means that the entire Bible, both the Old and New Testaments, is inspired by God and can be used to guide and instruct people in matters of faith, morals, and living a godly life.
This is not just a book with some good hints about healthy living and social cohesion [perhaps being sort after this very moment on this planet, as I watch the depressing news items] But a training manual for all ages ; all denominations who claim to use it and maybe a new one for that space on the bookshelf?
The phrase "all scripture is good for teaching" comes from the Bible, specifically 2 Timothy 3:16, which states that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness." This means that the entire Bible, both the Old and New Testaments, is inspired by God and can be used to guide and instruct people in matters of faith, morals, and living a godly life.
This is not just a book with some good hints about healthy living and social cohesion [perhaps being sort after this very moment on this planet, as I watch the depressing news items] But a training manual for all ages ; all denominations who claim to use it and maybe a new one for that space on the bookshelf?
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
With a massive ark and museum, he spreads creationism a century after Scopes trial. He’s not alone
As the colossal replica of the biblical Noah’s Ark rises incongruously from the countryside of northern Kentucky, Ken Ham gives the presentation he’s often repeated. The ark stretches one and a half football fields long — “the biggest freestanding timber-frame structure in the world,” Ham says. It holds three massive decks with wooden cages, food-storage urns, life-size animal models and other exhibits.
It’s all designed to argue that the biblical story was literally true that an ancient Noah really could have built such a sophisticated ship. That Noah and a handful of family members really could have sustained thousands of animals for months, floating above a global flood that drowned everyone else in the wicked world...
Polls generally show that somewhere between 1 in 6 and 1 in 3 Americans hold beliefs consistent with young-Earth creationism, depending on how the question is asked. A 2024 Gallup poll found that 37% of U.S. adults agreed “God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so.”...
Gallup’s survey found that of Americans who believe in evolution, more say it happened with God’s guidance (34%) than without it (24%). Catholic popes have shown openness to evolution while insisting the human soul is a divine creation. Many liberal Protestants and even some evangelicals have accepted at least parts of evolutionary theory. But among many evangelicals, creationist belief is strong...
Bryan had declaimed, “How can teachers tell students that they came from monkeys and not expect them to act like monkeys?”
As the colossal replica of the biblical Noah’s Ark rises incongruously from the countryside of northern Kentucky, Ken Ham gives the presentation he’s often repeated. The ark stretches one and a half football fields long — “the biggest freestanding timber-frame structure in the world,” Ham says. It holds three massive decks with wooden cages, food-storage urns, life-size animal models and other exhibits.
It’s all designed to argue that the biblical story was literally true that an ancient Noah really could have built such a sophisticated ship. That Noah and a handful of family members really could have sustained thousands of animals for months, floating above a global flood that drowned everyone else in the wicked world...
Polls generally show that somewhere between 1 in 6 and 1 in 3 Americans hold beliefs consistent with young-Earth creationism, depending on how the question is asked. A 2024 Gallup poll found that 37% of U.S. adults agreed “God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so.”...
Gallup’s survey found that of Americans who believe in evolution, more say it happened with God’s guidance (34%) than without it (24%). Catholic popes have shown openness to evolution while insisting the human soul is a divine creation. Many liberal Protestants and even some evangelicals have accepted at least parts of evolutionary theory. But among many evangelicals, creationist belief is strong...
Bryan had declaimed, “How can teachers tell students that they came from monkeys and not expect them to act like monkeys?”
I don't read it. Never. A lazy, but long, very very long, bore written by who knows what. Boring with no authority whatsoever. An opinion by a real person is never the waste of time like this chatbot blabbing on.
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
It is a gift according to the New Testament. It is a mind produced perspective, according to Buddhism. There is a branch of Buddhism, called Pure Land Buddhism. It is much more the same as Christian idealism.