Is the government shutdown a very bad thing? Who to blame?

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rurallad

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What do you think about the government shutdown? How bad is it? I don't think it's so bad, people insisted on their stand, even at the cost the government shutdown.

Besides the media coverage and expert analysis, I really want to hear some personal opinions, I know I will only get honest views here.

P.S. this looks like a great place. :)
 

Hi there Rurallad.
There has been some traffic on this subject over on the Speakers Corner in Groups.

https://www.seniorforums.com/group.php?discussionid=88&do=discuss

I'm an Aussie and was quite perplexed about this particular situation so I started a thread when none of the Americans seemed game enough to raise the issue. I did it in Speakers Corner because that group was formed to encourage robust discussion without name calling or other nastiness. As long as people remain civil, all opinions and viewpoints are welcome there. Pop over and take a look. You may enjoy Speakers Corner.

By opening it up to general discussion we may hear even more opinions but I've probably said all that is appropriate from an outsider.
 
rurallad said:
What do you think about the government shutdown? How bad is it? I don't think it's so bad, people insisted on their stand, even at the cost the government shutdown.

Besides the media coverage and expert analysis, I really want to hear some personal opinions, I know I will only get honest views here.

P.S. this looks like a great place. :)
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Rurallad, here is my honest view. Right or wrong this is how I feel.
I think in a way it is a bad thing, it seems no one on either side was/is willing to talk to one another.
On the other hand it is a good thing. Our country has gotten to the point something drastic has to change. I have my doubts this is drastic enough yet. When I fell for the lie I gotta use the credit cards to pay my bills, I kept getting deeper and deeper in debt. I did not begin to solve the problem untill I cut my credit cards up and stopped spending more than I was making. This is what our government MUST DO.
I blame the long time members of Congress and the President/s (both the current and those in the past) for their spend spend spend policies. Both Republicans and Democrats are as equally guilty.
We have some, who happen to be Republicans reffered to as The Tea Party, who made some promises to the folks who elected them to office. It seems they are trying to follow through on those promises. Wether they are right or wrong I find it refreshing they seem to be standing up to the established members of Congress.
It is my view the most important issue is the raising of the debt ceiling to allow goverment to borrow even more money for foolish spending. My view on this. You come home and find the sewer in your house is plugged and you have sewage to the ceiling are you going to remodel and raise the ceiling or are you gonna start shoveling sewage?


P.S. this is a great place.
 

It's finally gotten the better of me and I had to look at what all the row is over. Considering it might be the cause of the next stock market crash I thought it only fair I know what the hell Obamacare is. Not much the wiser but Googled 'Obama care for Dummies' and Googlegod sent me to this site with an explanation that will do for we foreigners.

So, for others not American, one view of how it all works that makes some (crudely) interesting points.
It's one side's view, still hunting for the Tea Party's take on it, wish me luck.

http://off-the-mainstream.com/2012/...ies-a-simple-explanation-for-thinking-people/
 
Anytime there is less government at work is a good time.

Unfortunately they're probably working hard - well, working, anyway - to get everything back to the status quo. Just think - so many agencies furloughed so many people, yet the U.S. has not exploded or crashed and burned or disappeared.

Maybe we didn't need that much padding on the payrolls, huh? :rolleyes:
 
For those of you who wonder what obamacare is. The truth is none of those who voted for it knows what it is.

It is supposed to be health insurance. The bill that was voted in is over two thousand pages long and it passed both houses ( both controlled by democrats) without anyone ever reading it. That in itself is scary.

Congress can make something a law without knowing what is in it. ( stupidity rules)

The republicans then got a majority in the house and have trying to block the funding of this wasteful bill that is going to cost taxpaying citizens much more for less insurance.

President Obama has (illegally, since the bill is now the law) postponed part of the bill in hope the worst of it won't be know until after the 2014 elections. He has steadfastly refused to postpone the rest of it.

As for the government shutdown. I'm glad to see it. Our government is out of control. Far too many employees and a spending spree that just won't stop.No government at all would be much better than an out of control government.

As Thomas Jefferson said..." A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have."

I say the latter is more likely.
 
For those of you who wonder what obamacare is. The truth is none of those who voted for it knows what it is.
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OMG. When that sounds to be a more than reasonable explanation of what Politicians do you know you've been taking too much interest in them. I have to stop this fascination with trying to figure politics out... how do I kick that one??
 
[h=2]....more of Elizabeth Warren on the shutdown...I totally agree with her..

We are not a country of anarchists[/h]October 4, 2013 | By Elizabeth Warren
If you watch the anarchist tirades coming from extremist Republicans in the House, you'd think they believe that the government that governs best is a government that doesn't exist at all.

But behind all the slogans of the Tea Party – and all the thinly veiled calls for anarchy in Washington – is a reality: The American people don't want a future without government.

When was the last time the anarchy gang called for regulators to go easier on companies that put lead in children's toys? Or for inspectors to stop checking whether the meat in our grocery stores is crawling with deadly bacteria? Or for the FDA to ignore whether morning sickness drugs will cause horrible deformities in our babies?

When? Never. In fact, whenever the anarchists make any headway in their quest and cause damage to our government, the opposite happens.

After the sequester kicked in, Republicans immediately turned around and called on us to protect funding for our national defense and to keep our air traffic controllers on the job.

And now that the House Republicans have shut down the government – holding the country hostage because of some imaginary government "health care boogeyman" – Republicans almost immediately turned around and called on us to start reopening parts of our government.

Why do they do this? Because the boogeyman government in the alternate universe of their fiery political speeches isn't real. It doesn't exist.

Government is real, and it has three basic functions:

  1. Provide for the national defense.
  2. Put rules in place rules, like traffic lights and bank regulations, that are fair and transparent.
  3. Build the things together that none of us can build alone – roads, schools, power grids – the things that give everyone a chance to succeed.
These things did not appear by magic. In each instance, we made a choice as a people to come together. We made that choice because we wanted to be a country with a foundation that would allow anyone to have a chance to succeed.

The Food and Drug Administration makes sure that the white pills we take are antibiotics and not baking soda. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration oversees crash tests to make sure our new cars have functioning brakes. The Consumer Product Safety Commission makes sure that babies' car seats don't collapse in a crash and that toasters don't explode.

We are alive, we are healthier, we are stronger because of government. Alive, healthier, stronger because of what we did together.

We are not a country of anarchists. We are not a country of pessimists and ideologues whose motto is, "I've got mine, the rest of you are on your own." We are not a country that tolerates dangerous drugs, unsafe meat, dirty air, or toxic mortgages.

We are not that nation. We have never been that nation. And we never will be that nation.

The political minority in the House that condemns government and begged for this shutdown has its day. But like all the reckless and extremist factions that have come before it, its day will pass – and the government will get back to the work we have chosen to do together.




 
government-shutdown-meme.png
 
Beyond constitutions and laws, societies function because of conventions. A convention is something that everyone agrees is a good thing to abide by, for the smooth functioning of society. I would have thought that there would have been a convention that congress does not thwart the budget process in an attempt to secure political advantage. Once conventions are broken, it is easier to keep ignoring them and this is like throwing sand into the gear box of the government's engines.

As I see it, what is going on is very bloody minded and stupid all round.
 
What is ridiculous, is that for the things they want to have money for, they seem to still have deep pockets and be spending just like usual, and the things they are enforcingt the shutdown with, are things that hurt us, the American public.
Some of the places that they have shut down are costing more for the government to keep them shut down then it was to run them in the first place. A place that needed a minimum of staffers, now needs more security guards to keep people from going there, then it took for the staff to operate it in the first place.
No wonder the government is going broke....
 
Happyflowerlady said:
... Some of the places that they have shut down are costing more for the government to keep them shut down then it was to run them in the first place. A place that needed a minimum of staffers, now needs more security guards to keep people from going there, then it took for the staff to operate it in the first place ...
Click to expand...

Of course, the more conspiratorial among us might claim that that is exactly what the government planned for and wants - an excuse to install armed security at every monument. Maybe the barrier-breaching at the White House and the public immolation on the Mall are all part of the act ...

It's all part of the Master Plan of the Homeland. swastika.gif
 
I agree with Ms Warren. I hate what's happening to this country. Both parties are to blame for much of what is happening, but this anarchy is something else. It is much more grievous to the country than what Snowdon is accused of, or what private Manning did.
 
Warrigal said:
:saywhat:

Seriously?
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The comparatively short history of the United States is full of examples of state-sponsored scams, power grabs and outright illegal and immoral schemes. I'm not talking about the history taught to the little girls and boys - I'm talking about the back-room history, the shady deals and the blatant crimes against the governed.

There have been government-sponsored terror campaigns on many occasions. Purposely giving citizens deadly drugs, practicing mind-control and brainwashing techniques, knowingly exposing them to various toxins ... why is it such a reach of logic to suppose that they would do something like this? Our Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) has been on a build-up for years in areas that don't concern it; our much-vaunted Homeland Security purchased billions of rounds of hollow-point ammo; the CIA, FBI and NSA have run rampant over the rights of citizens without nary a peep.

I would be more willing to believe that it's government-sponsored than chalk it up to coincidence, because there's no such thing. Everything happens for a reason, unbeknownst to us though it might be. And at least to MY mind, betting against the government is always the safe bet.
 
Warrigal said:
:saywhat:

Seriously?
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What they are doing is closing areas that are important to the people, some are attractions that visitors have made plans weeks or even months ahead of time to visit, and now are being turned away.
Suppose you had planned a visit to America, and wanted to see the Grand Canyon , and after traveling halfway around the world to get here, discovered that it was closed ?
Not only that, you would have been a PAYING visitor, so now all of our national parks are turning away a dependable source of income, while also hiring well-paid security guards to make sure that visitors can't enter a park.
Here is an article that explains it very well.

http://iroots.org/2013/10/03/govern...g-monuments-cost-more-than-keeping-them-open/
 
When you say "the government" exactly what does that mean ? The Presidency? The congress as a whole ? The majority party in the reps? or the senate? Or do you mean government agencies like the FBI etc. It is very unclear to me who the finger is pointing at when Americans complain about "the government". It all seems very generic.
 
Warrigal said:
When you say "the government" exactly what does that mean ? The Presidency? The congress as a whole ? The majority party in the reps? or the senate? Or do you mean government agencies like the FBI etc. It is very unclear to me who the finger is pointing at when Americans complain about "the government". It all seems very generic.
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I believe president Obama is doing this to try and make the government shutdown seem much worse than it is or needs to be.He is the one who is unwilling to negotiate. He wants it all his way or he is willing to keep the government shut down and most likely will allow the U.S. to default on its loans.

http://news.yahoo.com/boehner-no-cl...t-ceiling-145746667--abc-news-topstories.html
 
Warrigal said:
When you say "the government" exactly what does that mean ? The Presidency? The congress as a whole ? The majority party in the reps? or the senate? Or do you mean government agencies like the FBI etc. It is very unclear to me who the finger is pointing at when Americans complain about "the government". It all seems very generic.
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I'm sorry - I posted a nice big reply last night and it vanished in the aether. :(

My take is that "government" is any group of people involved in Federal, State, county, township, city, town, village, hamlet or unincorporated structure governorship. They supposedly take their orders from the people that elect them or the judicial bodies that appoint them.

Government consists of approx. 1% of the population - odd, since they had that whole 1-percenter's thing going on, eh? But there are over 4 million people on the Federal government payroll in 2013 in capacities from delivery boy to President. Repeat, lather and rinse for each of the other States, towns, etc., each probably around 1% of their respective populations.

THAT to me is the "government".
 
rurallad said:
What do you think about the government shutdown? How bad is it? I don't think it's so bad, people insisted on their stand, even at the cost the government shutdown.

Besides the media coverage and expert analysis, I really want to hear some personal opinions, I know I will only get honest views here.

P.S. this looks like a great place. :)
Click to expand...

This is nothing but a game of poker. The stakes, for now, are small. The only thing one side wants is to be heard and something called "compromised" restored. The only thing the other side wants is "free rule, no questions asked." Right now both sides are merely glaring at the other side. It's something like The Cuban Missile Crisis, minus world-annihilation in the immediate future. Whoever blinks first loses. If neither blink by next weekend, then it's closer to The Cuban Missile Crisis--it can affect the whole world. Next weekend, the US needs to pay our debts to all the countries we owe. We need to pay our debts to all the companies we owe. If that moment passes, we default on our loans.

I'm not exactly sure how that affects the world, but the last time we wobbled (when jets hit the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, which stopped all commercial air travel for three days--stopping goods from coming and going, thus crippling business), the sum total included Greece and a few other countries collapsed and the Euro destabilized. I'm not entirely sure why the US is so frigging important to the world. We don't seem to be able to get our own act together, so I don't get it beyond we sure spend a lot of money globally, but we are.

This week we're fine. We've had to go through this game 17 other times and we've survived every time. It's next weekend when one of those poker players has to show the cards. If the staring contest continues, the world is in trouble. Not Cuban Missile Crisis trouble, but look for another recession. And, considering we haven't recovered from the last one, the word might be "Depression."

If the two sides don't start acting like grown-ups soon, then we are in even bigger trouble. This temper tantrum has been rebounding back and forth across the two sides for decades, and it's getting worse and worse.
 

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