Israeli October 7 posterchild was killed by Israeli tank, eyewitnesses reveal

Here's another Jew doing his best to explain historical conflicts in Palestine. If I remember right, in this video he actually references some specific sources.

 

I have watched loads of videos from so called experts, same with history books, same with opinion pieces, and not one them has the same facts. Here we have experts that have come to opposing views of that same history. Who is closest? No one can prove a thing, because it is a story/narrative/interpretation.?
 

Paco Dennis said:
I have watched loads of videos from so called experts, same with history books, same with opinion pieces, and not one them has the same facts. Here we have experts that have come to opposing views of that same history. Who is closest? No one can prove a thing, because it is a story/narrative/interpretation.?
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Can you be more specific? What facts are at odds?
 
For the 3rd day in a row following the 4-day ceasefire agreement between Israel and Hamas, 17 innocent civilians - 14 Israelis, 9 children, 4 women, and 3 people from Thailand - have been released from Hamas captivity in Gaza to the Red Cross.

40 Israelis and 18 foreign nationals have been released so far.
 
DaveA said:
In reality, doesn't this problem go back into the late 40's, after WWII ?
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Yes, the survivors of Hitler’s rampage fled Europe to return to the supposed safety of their ancient home in the Middle East. Their ancestors had migrated to eastern Europe in part to evade the hostility of an expanding Islam. Interestingly the hostility of Europe’s trade guilds likely forced them into banking and an evolving superior intelligence, which eventually led to success in Nobel Prize awards significantly greater than their numbers, something for which we should be grateful.

Check this out and prepare to be amazed …
List of Jewish Nobel laureates - Wikipedia
 
The problem goes beyond the current region and beyond the Ottoman empire, which is part of the long history of Islamic wars. It goes back over a thousand years to the inception of Islam itself which contains the rules for civilian government, the rules of war, and the rewards for fighting in Islamic wars.

It is the goal of Muslim jihadists to establish the Islamic government outlined in the Quran worldwide. This is what connects all the Muslim jihadist groups around the world, such as Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Taliban, Hezbollah, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Boco Haram, Hamas, and so on. In every region of the world they see some infidel power that interferes with their goal and needs to be fought against.

I don’t have the answer for this. Israel’s answer was to bomb the ones on their border to smithereens. China’s answer to their Muslim jihadist attacks was to round up all Muslims and put them in a re-education camp. Americans don’t have any answer because they don’t even know what the problem is.

I think the American military, who has to fight these Islamic wars, understands the problem more than civilians. But the American government is run by civilians and they run about saying Islam is a religion of peace. Go figure.
 
Well, one thing I've learned in the past 77 years is that claiming neutrality, like claiming conscience objector status, is the last haven of the cowardly.
 
I think maybe a lot of people protesting, calling for a cold stop, etc. don't know about or comprehend the Hamas Covenant/Charter of 1988. I hate war. I hate death. I hate fighting. But the covenant exists and it explains what is going on. No self proclaimed "experts" on YouTube videos will change it. The covenant:
"The Covenant proclaims that Israel will exist until Islam obliterates it, and jihad against Jews is required until Judgement Day. Compromise over the land is forbidden. The documents promote holy war as divinely ordained, reject political solutions, and call for instilling these views in children."

Simple as that. This war stops without stopping Hamas and they'll regroup and go after more of the Jewish population. I don't need to know the history of the region or why Israel and Palestine are such sworn enemies... this is about HAMAS, and to let them go at this point would guarantee a very bloody future. Just my thoughts, but it's really not so complicated.
 
Buckeye said:
Well, one thing I've learned in the past 77 years is that claiming neutrality, like claiming conscience objector status, is the last haven of the cowardly.
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@Buckeye , I just tried to message you and it tells me I'm not allowed to do that. I don't know why. Oh well, just wanted to let you know that I tried. If it works from your end, could you message me?
 
CallMeKate said:
@Buckeye , I just tried to message you and it tells me I'm not allowed to do that. I don't know why. Oh well, just wanted to let you know that I tried. If it works from your end, could you message me?
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I have my settings configured so i get messages from nobody. I've changed in for now to allow members to message me.
 
DaveA said:
In reality, doesn't this problem go back into the late 40's, after WWII ?
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No. Though Palestinian Arab nationalist Grand Mufti Haj Amin el Husseini did ally with Hitler, believing Germany had the right idea about eliminating Jews, issues between Israel and Palestine go back to the Ottoman Empire and before. This is why el Husseini went to meet with Hitler, hoping to make 2 plans with the same goal come together.
 
CallMeKate said:
I think maybe a lot of people protesting, calling for a cold stop, etc. don't know about or comprehend the Hamas Covenant/Charter of 1988. I hate war. I hate death. I hate fighting. But the covenant exists and it explains what is going on. No self proclaimed "experts" on YouTube videos will change it. The covenant:
"The Covenant proclaims that Israel will exist until Islam obliterates it, and jihad against Jews is required until Judgement Day. Compromise over the land is forbidden. The documents promote holy war as divinely ordained, reject political solutions, and call for instilling these views in children."
Click to expand...
This covenant gets to the root of the Islamic jihad problem world wide. It’s a simple theology but one non-Muslims from western democracies can’t comprehend. The end game of jihadists is the establishment of an Islamic state based on the laws in the Quran - or die trying. And if they die trying, the Quran promises big rewards in heaven. That’s why it’s difficult to negotiate land, borders, treaties or anything with them.

CHILD JIHADIS.jpg
 
Paco Dennis said:
I have watched loads of videos from so called experts, same with history books, same with opinion pieces, and not one them has the same facts. Here we have experts that have come to opposing views of that same history. Who is closest? No one can prove a thing, because it is a story/narrative/interpretation.?
Click to expand...
You're giving the impression the only way you can be convinced of anything is via a time machine.

Forget all the minutia and you're down to two neighbors; one that wants to live peacefully no matter who lives next door, and one who can't rest because the people next door aren't cut from the same cloth as them.
 
Murrmurr said:
You're giving the impression the only way you can be convinced of anything is via a time machine.

Forget all the minutia and you're down to two neighbors; one that wants to live peacefully no matter who lives next door, and one who can't rest because the people next door aren't cut from the same cloth as them.
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That is an understatement. I am not 100% convinced of any "thing". It is part of my Buddhist understanding that every "thing" is constantly changing. Being sure of any "thing" is an illusion. That is my basic outlook. So I am not looking to be convinced. It is also my vows to bring peace to those who are suffering. I look for ways to allow conflicts to pass as quickly as possible.
I have learned a whole lot in the past few days about the history of the middle-east. I don't look for conclusions. I let the universe teach me in each moment and behave accordingly.
I am leaning a little more to the problem with Jihadists. That Palestine is a hotbed of extremists who really do want to destroy Israel, and believe it is an edict of Allah. Whew...nuts. and very dangerous, which has lead me to understand what the "occupation" is for. To try to keep control of these mad freaks from attacking Israel. I am not convinced that this extreme amount of killing women and children to get to Hamas is going to work though. (I think the BRIKS nations just sanctioned Israel.) The other Muslim countries are infuriated by the continuing destruction of the Palestinian people. Won't that start more conflict down the road, in the near future?
 
Paco Dennis said:
The other Muslim countries are infuriated by the continuing destruction of the Palestinian people. Won't that start more conflict down the road, in the near future?
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It's hard to know what they might do down the road. They're not exactly logical people. No one in their right mind would do what Gaza did on Oct. 7. Israel is one of the most sophisticated and well trained armies in the world and Gaza is one of the least. When Israel declared war on them, Gaza had nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. I was afraid the other Muslim countries might get involved, but apparently they're not as keen on suicide missions as Gaza. The chief Israeli military spokesman said Israel was prepared for war on 3 fronts anyway if they did want to get involved.
 
Paco Dennis said:
That is an understatement. I am not 100% convinced of any "thing". It is part of my Buddhist understanding that every "thing" is constantly changing. Being sure of any "thing" is an illusion. That is my basic outlook. So I am not looking to be convinced. It is also my vows to bring peace to those who are suffering. I look for ways to allow conflicts to pass as quickly as possible.
I have learned a whole lot in the past few days about the history of the middle-east. I don't look for conclusions. I let the universe teach me in each moment and behave accordingly.
I am leaning a little more to the problem with Jihadists. That Palestine is a hotbed of extremists who really do want to destroy Israel, and believe it is an edict of Allah. Whew...nuts. and very dangerous, which has lead me to understand what the "occupation" is for. To try to keep control of these mad freaks from attacking Israel. I am not convinced that this extreme amount of killing women and children to get to Hamas is going to work though. (I think the BRIKS nations just sanctioned Israel.) The other Muslim countries are infuriated by the continuing destruction of the Palestinian people. Won't that start more conflict down the road, in the near future?
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Iran is already rumbling, but Saudi Arabia shushed them.

A lot of Israeli people aren't happy with their president's recent decisions. I hope he listens to them.
 
Murrmurr said:
Iran is already rumbling, but Saudi Arabia shushed them.

A lot of Israeli people aren't happy with their president's recent decisions. I hope he listens to them.
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Here is a rhetorical question.......What is the difference between the Canadian Armed Forces, and the Iraeli Defense Force ? The IDF doesn't have to have make believe military exercises, like we here in Canada do. THEY are surrounded by real world potential attackers, Canada is not. The IDF knows they have to win EVERYTIME. That fact alone explains why they are so prepared. JimB.
 
jimintoronto said:
Here is a rhetorical question.......What is the difference between the Canadian Armed Forces, and the Iraeli Defense Force ? The IDF doesn't have to have make believe military exercises, like we here in Canada do. THEY are surrounded by real world potential attackers, Canada is not. The IDF knows they have to win EVERYTIME. That fact alone explains why they are so prepared. JimB.
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Absolutely. And that's why I have to respect Netanyahu's decision-making. And it's possible he really had to wrestle with his conscience before making these decisions (though I'm probably giving him too much credit there).

Really, though, he had no viable options.
 

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