Shero
Senior Member
- Location
- Transient in the Land of Oz
le cook is already "lonely" even the little puppy, the one that pees all over the flat, 
wants to leave home.
wants to leave home.
It's in mens DNA
- Thread starter senior chef
- Start date
Shero
Senior Member
- Location
- Transient in the Land of Oz
I'll give you the same advice you tried to give to Della before. ^^^^^^
Seems like you're a bit enraged yourself and revealing your dark side here.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Sorry Rob, but I have to disagree. Both sexes are attracted to healthy looking mates as a rule but there are other qualities that over ride athletic good looks.
As for women's obsession with youthful beauty, I blame the beauty industry, in particular the American beauty industry aided and abetted by Hollywood.
As a teen I lathered my face with foundation, powder, rouge, eye liner, eye shadow, mascara, eyebrow pencil and lipstick. I wore stepins to hold up my stockings and to control my non existent pot belly. Slept with plastic rollers in my hair which I tortured with back combing and tons of hair lacquer. Why? Because I was constantly being conditioned to think of my self as ugly without them.
Then I grew up and wised up. I only applied the "war paint" if I felt like it but my cousin married a woman who would do nothing at all before she was fully made up, not even feed her suckling baby.
Finally I realised that going to those extremes fools no-one. If I am going to a function where I will be photographed for posterity I will apply some makeup because my complexion is pale and I don't want to look like I am featureless. Otherwise? Meh?
I actually think I look better sans makeup. I'm more interested in not frightening little children than I am in what random males may think of me. It's been that way for a long time now.
senior chef
Senior Member
Thank you, Rob.
Quite frankly I did not expect much of an interest in such a plainly obvious truth.
I did not take into account that there were feminists who would become so outraged at simple common sense.
This thread has now deteriorated into desultory finger pointing.
I now with-draw from this thread.
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
Are you arguing with Charles Darwin or Rob's views and recollection of Darwins views on the subject?
Oh dash, you've withdrawn from the thread, ("my bad", as they say, not reading to the end of a post!).
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Not Darwin because his proposition was that natural selection was all about adaptation to changes in the environment. Take the example of the speckled moths that were common before the industrial revolution. Against the bark of trees they were well camouflaged from the birds that like to feast on them. However, there was a genetic variation that resulted in black moths of the same species. They stood out against the light coloured bark and were easily picked off. Once soot from the factories began to cover every surface, it was the speckled moths that were easily seen by the birds and the black variety became the dominant variation.
The popular male idea of female beauty beauty has varied enormously over the centuries and across the globe. When Hubby and I visited a village in New Guinea we were entertained by a performance that explained to us the courtship/marriage customs of this tribe.
The would be husband had to pay a bride price for a woman from another village. The father of the bride decided the price in terms of the number of pigs, kauri shells and weapons. There was naturally a good deal of haggling over the price. If the woman had already had a child the price was higher because of her proven fertility. If she had saggy breasts the price was lower because that meant that she was older and would bear less sons for her husband's village. She was a commodity, a brood mare and a work horse. Her looks were not top priority. They came a long way behind good health, fertility and stamina for hard work.
It was much the same in a village in Vanuatu. The tribes were always at war but suspended hostilities when it came time to find brides. If two men were vying for the same girl they had to fight for her, to the death. She would be taken to her husband's island to bear warrior sons but if her husband died the village chief would come to her hut and strangle her with the rope that she herself had been forced to fashion herself as part of the wedding ritual.
If these sort of practices were hard wired into our DNA they would not have disappeared so quickly after colonisation.
The popular male idea of female beauty beauty has varied enormously over the centuries and across the globe. When Hubby and I visited a village in New Guinea we were entertained by a performance that explained to us the courtship/marriage customs of this tribe.
The would be husband had to pay a bride price for a woman from another village. The father of the bride decided the price in terms of the number of pigs, kauri shells and weapons. There was naturally a good deal of haggling over the price. If the woman had already had a child the price was higher because of her proven fertility. If she had saggy breasts the price was lower because that meant that she was older and would bear less sons for her husband's village. She was a commodity, a brood mare and a work horse. Her looks were not top priority. They came a long way behind good health, fertility and stamina for hard work.
It was much the same in a village in Vanuatu. The tribes were always at war but suspended hostilities when it came time to find brides. If two men were vying for the same girl they had to fight for her, to the death. She would be taken to her husband's island to bear warrior sons but if her husband died the village chief would come to her hut and strangle her with the rope that she herself had been forced to fashion herself as part of the wedding ritual.
If these sort of practices were hard wired into our DNA they would not have disappeared so quickly after colonisation.
Alligatorob
SF VIP
Great story, it must have been a fascinating visit. Are you familiar with Jered Diamond's work? He did a lot of it amongst the New Guinea natives.
I agree that both sexes are attracted to healthy. And both are attracted to people who look like they could bear children. For women that is younger, men can bear children at an older age. And women are attracted to men who can best provide for her children, wealth can be a part of that. So I don't think the attractions are identical.
I agree with both points. Historically beauty in women was mostly based on the healthy potentially child capable things. Hip to waist ratio is one of those, but much of Hollywood beauty is not. An example is weight and fat, in many cultures heavy women were highly valued, still are by some, but not in Hollywood. A shame I think. Women with a few extra pounds look just fine to me...
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
The idea anything as complicated as the partner any of us might be attracted to is necessarily "hard wired" is probably untrue, using my admittedly very limited knowledge of the subject of evolution, (though I have read a good few luminary texts!).
However, it must be uncontroversial to say men can probably detect women who are capable of conceiving a child, (i.e. premenopausal), and if we agree this is the case, then the evolutionary significance is obvious.
However, it must be uncontroversial to say men can probably detect women who are capable of conceiving a child, (i.e. premenopausal), and if we agree this is the case, then the evolutionary significance is obvious.
Pecos
Well-known Member
- Location
- Washington State
I have read through this thread several times and feel like I have been listening to the chatter of high school school freshmen in the boy's gym locker room giving their views on women's bodies. This is embarrassing to me as a 78 year old man who regularly posts on a forum that is predominately senior women.
Guys, lets try to act like we have matured a bit, just a bit.
Guys, lets try to act like we have matured a bit, just a bit.
Alligatorob
SF VIP
I can see why it looks that way, but I have tried to be respectful and honest in my posts, as have others.
I would think the senior women might be interested in what we are thinking, and they are of course welcome to comment here, some have.
I'd be interested in reading a similar thread from women with their thoughts of men.
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
Apologies for my part, (as a 67 year old man)!
(Btw we're not too old to muse are we, on things probably long past, but I do get your point)
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Kudos and thanks for this post.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Women who grew up with brothers close in age, or have enjoyed long-term, healthy relationships, or raised sons, or have simply paid attention to what's happened around them, are pretty clear what attracts most men in the long and short term. That males of our species are initially attracted to 36-24-36 type women isn't a starting revelation.
Same is true of men who are interested in what attracts women in the long and short term. They figured out long ago that females are initially attracted to tall, strong, men with symmetrical features who have with the power and wherewithal to provide for and protect offspring.
As is true with many aspects of our instincts, worthwhile humans overrule knee-jerk responses by our reptilian brains in favor of what actually benefits us long term.
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Alligatorob
SF VIP
Yes, and its an ongoing battle for most (me anyway).
Better understanding what our "reptilian brain" is saying and why helps.
Sassycakes
SF VIP
- Location
- Pennsylvania
Ah but Hef had a lot of fun no matter what one would call his "ladies".
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
Hef had plenty of flaws but toward the end of his life he boosted the Hollywood sign conservancy fund to purchase the land behind and adjacent to the sign. (The land under the sign was already in the public trust.) For his actions in twice restoring and preserving that landmark, Hef will always have a soft spot in my heart.
His obituary in Vanity Fair"
"For Hugh Hefner, Los Angeles was home. The late Playboy founder, who died of natural causes on Wednesday in his famous Holmby Hills mansion, was drawn there in the early 1970s and never left. He threw legendary parties that lured in Hollywood’s A-list; he starred in a reality show that revitalized his public reputation as a long-standing Lothario; and he saved the the iconic Hollywood sign that rests high up in the hills. Twice.
Erected in 1923, the Hollywood sign (which originally spelled out “Hollywoodland”) was long a symbol of glamorous Tinseltown dreams. But by 1978, it had started to deteriorate after years of neglect. By that time, Hugh Hefner was already a famous L.A. resident and a household name. The Chamber of Commerce needed a quarter of a million dollars to revitalize the sign—and got just that after Hefner became involved in restoration efforts. As The Hollywood Reporter writes, he threw a lavish fund-raiser, auctioning off letters from the old sign for $27,000 each. Buyers included rock stars like Alice Cooper and actors like Gene Autry, who ended up giving enough to restore the Mount Lee plot with new letters. The Hollywood Hills were empty for about three months after that until the chamber was able to replace it with a new sign.
A few decades later, Hefner would come to the rescue once again. Back in 2010, a conservationist group—the Trust for Public Land—was rallying to protect the 138 acres around the sign from developers, who wanted to build luxury properties on Mount Lee. The trust was given an ultimatum of sorts: pay $12.5 million now, and the acres are yours. As the deadline approached, it was able to raise nearly all the cash, but ended up short about $1 million. And it only had about a week and a half left to raise the rest.
Cue Hefner, who was alerted in the nick of time and donated the final $900,000. “It would have been a real shame after having restored it if it wound up sold,” he told People a few days later. “It’s become something iconic and represents not only the town but represents Hollywood dreams, and I think that’s something worth preserving.”
Texas too. Thankfully for me. : )
David777
Well-known Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
The female pelvis shape evolved to allow passage of babies with larger hominid heads containing our expanded brain neocortex, thus widening at the hips. Female silhouette shape is magnetic like pulling me in willingly strongly. But then beyond outline, an attractive feminine female face has far more to look into.
grahamg
Old codger
- Location
- South of Manchester, UK
You are an expert, or have given an experts opinion in my view, (I've undertaken extensive research in this area myself, though purely as an amateur!).
fuzzybuddy
SF VIP
- Location
- The Sticks, Northeast PA.
I've worked with lots of people-male & female. But when I met their spouses, it's "you gotta be kidding me". I would never paired up these two people., in a million years. It's a crap shoot. There's DNA, cultural bias, timing, physical attractiveness, and just plain human weirdness in determining a mate. And if the first one didn't pan out, there's the next, and the next.......