It's Rainin' Babies and Nobody Seems to Care

I agree Warrigal, they obviously are mentally ill for throwing their babies out the windows, just as many of the shooters are. I've listed numerous times the pharmaceutical medications they were on for some time of mental condition, drugs with side effects of homicide or suicide. When they say their babies are demons, that is obviously a sick person.

Of course the shooters are not responsible gun owners either, but my point was it didn't get the exaggerated media coverage that it would have if a gun was involved. Even though there was no gun involved in these baby murders, it still opens the endless dialogue of gun control, the dead babies take second place.

Nobody can agree that there would be more extensive media coverage if a gun was involved? Nobody can agree that those shooters were mentally ill also?
 
There are a couple of reasons that I can think of for muted media coverage.

One is that other children are involved and to protect them, especially as they continue to grow up, the reports would try not to release any identifying information. The other, which is the reason that suicides often go unreported, is to try to avoid triggering copycat events.

From what is available it would seem that there is not a lot of commonality in all three instances. I would really like to know what the common factors might be. Are coronial inquests carried out in New York when unnatural deaths occur?
 

There are worse things than never having been born. With abortions being available, I wonder why those mothers didn't choose to have one.

Well for one thing Medicaid funding for abortion was cut off a long time ago.

There has been a gradual closure of clinics due in part by funding issues and a large part due to pro life terrorists. People who consider the life of a fetus paramount...and will bomb clinics and shoot people to help their cause. Does anyone else see a really sick irony there?

With the closure of clinics and distance to travel to the ones that still exist...a woman sometimes might have to travel many hours, possibly a state or two away. Add the cost of gas or bus transportation. Then factor in the actual procedure is several hundred dollars. A cost well out of reach of many women below the poverty line.

Yes, I had Women's Studies as a minor and was a clinic volunteer.
 
fureverywhere said:
People who consider the life of a fetus paramount...and will bomb clinics and shoot people to help their cause. Does anyone else see a really sick irony there?
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I see the sick irony there Fureverywhere! I once heard a conservative talk show host say that if his pet dog and a petri dish with an embryo in it were in a burning house and he could only save one, it would be the petri dish. No way would that have been my choice. :rolleyes:
 
I'm still thinking about this latest event. The woman had four children, including the one thrown from the window. She was unemployed although until earlier this year she has a licence to care for other children in her apartment. People are reported as saying that she was a conscientious mother and kept the apartment clean. However, there were signs of mental problems and developing religious mania. Details of a partner are not forthcoming.

My mind is wondering about what services and assistance was available to her. I'm also wondering what services and assistance would be here for her in Australia. I do know that she could access income support, free medical and hospital care during the pregnancy and subsidised child care for the older children. This link refers to all of these entitlements : http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/subjects/having-a-baby

Perhaps the kind of caring that is needed and that could help to prevent such tragedies is something as simple as programs that support women, families and children?
 
Jim, that post is unhelpful if we are trying to understand what went wrong.
That kind of delusion is symptomatic of serious mental illness - schizophrenia or post partum psychosis perhaps.
Before she threw the baby out of the window she was heard shouting and talking to herself, for some hours according to one report.
She was naked, all of the children were naked. This is not normal behaviour in a woman who previously had been a good mother.
 
Warrigal said:
Jim, that post is unhelpful if we are trying to understand what went wrong.
That kind of delusion is symptomatic of serious mental illness - schizophrenia or post partum psychosis perhaps.
Before she threw the baby out of the window she was heard shouting and talking to herself, for some hours according to one report.
She was naked, all of the children were naked. This is not normal behaviour in a woman who previously had been a good mother.
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Helpful or not, it is a standard answer to the question "why" when a religious zealot takes a life or several.
 
AZ Jim said:
But......god told her to do it.....
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Good point there Jim!

Warrigal said:
Jim, that post is unhelpful if we are trying to understand what went wrong.
That kind of delusion is symptomatic of serious mental illness - schizophrenia or post partum psychosis perhaps.
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I wish so much concern and effort went into understanding what went wrong with the mentally ill mass shooters, but their mental state and illness is always discounted, the gun's to blame and that's that. Brings more viewers to the main stream media outlets I guess. The fact remains that this was just a tiny blurb in the newspaper, and won't be plastered all over the news headlines for weeks, months and years on end.
 
SeaBreeze said:
Good point there Jim!


I wish so much concern and effort went into understanding what went wrong with the mentally ill mass shooters, but their mental state and illness is always discounted, the gun's to blame and that's that. Brings more viewers to the main stream media outlets I guess. The fact remains that this was just a tiny blurb in the newspaper, and won't be plastered all over the news headlines for weeks, months and years on end.
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Our last mass shooter, Martin Bryant, is/was clearly mentally unbalanced to say the least. This was not glossed over and he is locked up never to be released because of it. After the event it is important to ask all kinds of questions. This is why I asked about coronial inquiries. No-one answered my question.

Our last siege in Sydney CBD was followed by a full inquiry into all the circumstances including police responses as well as the behaviour/mentality of the hostage taker. This is important even though he was killed by the police because understanding is vital if we don't want to see endless repetitions.

In the latest NY case, I make this observation. The way the remaining children were lying naked on the floor and the nakedness of the mother suggests to me that a murder suicide was in process. It seems that a flurry of 911 calls brought help quickly and the other children were saved. Ask yourselves how many would have survived if the mother had a gun at hand.
 
Oy Jim, one of my bumper stickers used to be " Keep beeping, I'm reloading" Jus' sayin'

Perhaps the kind of caring that is needed and that could help to prevent such tragedies is something as simple as programs that support women, families and children?

I wish there were in the US. There are small communities that take care of their own and that's a wonderful thing. When we lived in PA there was so much aid for people from church groups. The woman's center used to have a charity they called "The Front Porch". It was a huge wrap around porch where people could drop off clothes, furniture and everything else.

I knew several people who furnished whole apartments and clothed their family from treasures found on the porch. Sadly it was discontinued when neighbors complained. There were people of a certain element that would root around and leave a huge mess, loud voices, tossing ciggie butts in the bushes. Too bad when people need to spoil a good thing.

In the big cities there are more people in need than the government can pay for. Welfare to work was a failure. People were required to seek employment for certain benefits. Minimum wage won't pull people out of poverty. Then the kicker was if someone found work that might help their basic expenses, all their welfare benefits might get pulled.

Then the family is back to square one. What the US needs is funding for job training, day care vouchers, transportation availability.
 
Warrigal said:
Ask yourselves how many would have survived if the mother had a gun at hand.
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I care about that poor helpless baby who's dead now, thrown out a window by her own mother...not going to speculate of how bad things might have been if that mother had a big, horrible, dangerous gun. :rolleyes:
 
Exactly. I'm just talking about the cycle of poverty and what it does to adults. For kids in such a family we don't even want to imagine. I mean for every op/ed piece about some child who was booted among shelters and foster care and ends up graduating from Princeton... there are countless others who end up on our streets or in our prisons because the whole system failed them.
 
In my opinion, when a previously capable mother suddenly exhibits clearly irrational behaviour psychosis is present. It may very well manifest itself as religious mania, but I believe that to be a symptom rather than a cause of her subsequent behaviour. Frankly, she snapped.
 
Then there is post partum-depression and psychosis...a middle class Mom might have trouble getting treatment. A low income woman? No chance. But it is real...and there are excellent meds and therapy to counteract it...but Heaven help you trying to find it in time.
 
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