Katrina vanden Heuvel on how U.S. media’s “one-sided debate” on Ukraine fans the flames of war

Don't have time to listen now; just wanted to mention Katrina vanden Heuvel is a person I like and respect very much.
 
There's a lot of good points in this interview....especially her notion that this is increasingly becoming a "Proxy War" between NATO and Russia. The more aid and weapons we send to Ukraine, the greater the odds of Putin going over the Edge, and launching attacks on NATO and us.

What is happening in Ukraine is certainly Not to be condoned, but the longer that Ukraine resists, and causes damage to the Russian military, with OUR weaponry, the closer the "doomsday clock" will come to Midnight.

I don't know when it was decided that the U.S. should become the "worlds police", but ever since WWII, our results in the ensuing wars...Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc., have been marginal, at best. Now, we're flirting with a nation that could bring global destruction (Russia), and take the entire world back to the Dark Ages. We got lucky during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but can we get lucky Twice??

I think Washington needs to rethink Teddy Roosevelts words...."speak softly, but carry a big stick".
 

Don M. said:
There's a lot of good points in this interview....especially her notion that this is increasingly becoming a "Proxy War" between NATO and Russia. The more aid and weapons we send to Ukraine, the greater the odds of Putin going over the Edge, and launching attacks on NATO and us.

What is happening in Ukraine is certainly Not to be condoned, but the longer that Ukraine resists, and causes damage to the Russian military, with OUR weaponry, the closer the "doomsday clock" will come to Midnight.

I don't know when it was decided that the U.S. should become the "worlds police", but ever since WWII, our results in the ensuing wars...Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc., have been marginal, at best. Now, we're flirting with a nation that could bring global destruction (Russia), and take the entire world back to the Dark Ages. We got lucky during the Cuban Missile Crisis, but can we get lucky Twice??

I think Washington needs to rethink Teddy Roosevelts words...."speak softly, but carry a big stick".
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Proxy Wars are costly and dangerous, but IMO a necessary evil, either you(as a superpower) sit on your hands and watch a tyrant gobble up civilization, or you support proxy fighters.
I don't like the U.S. being in the position of being the "worlds police", but if you sit on the sidelines you don't get a say in how world events turn out.

If you're not in the game...you don't get to play.
 
Bottom line is that Vlad does not want NATO/The U.N./The U.S. lined up on his border like vultures. I for one believe he gave plenty of warnings that were ignored.

Anyway, a conventional war will bring windfalls of cash to the Elite Globalist Skidballs who own and operate munitions and military weapons manufacturing companies. No constant wars mean no profits, you must understand that blatant truth. And those who die in these constant wars for the benefit of the profiteers are nothing more than ACCEPTABLE collateral damage.

Won't be going nuclear, but a conventional shoot 'em up war is in the works, you can bet yer azz!

U.V.
 
The media always benefits from a war, but I think I see some half way decent reasonable reporting, enough so that I am left still making up my mind about what the right thing to do is. I lean toward not letting Putin get away with this. Is it a risk? Of course it is. On the other hand we don't want to pull a Neville Chamberlain either. Putin won't stop after Ukraine. He will most certainly take a breather and build up his military again, but he's not finished.
 
Dave...The MSM cannot be trusted to report the truth on most anything. Last week they fessed up to blowing smoke on what is really happening in Ukraine. From the outset The MSM was reporting that Russia was getting B-Slapped by Ukraine. I for one knew better. I just accepted the reports coming from our side as...lies. And lies on anything and everything is pretty much par for the course now from our media and their owner operator's, who are mostly off shore.

If Putin really wanted to get that "mess" over with, he could do so in 2 shakes of a lamb's tail, and that is a fact. For the sake of argument he is going about that dirty business, slow and easy.

When it becomes clear that NATO will back off and stop trying to encroach on his border, he will call...Game Over and pull outta Ukraine.

U.V.
 
If I'm right Russia invaded the Ukraine not the other way around.

I haven't seen any evidence that the U S & NATO were poised to attack Russia. What would stop Russia from expanding on acquiring additional territory if there was no resistance?
 
Knight, you are correct, there was no threat of an attack by NATO, The U.S., or Ukraine. The "threat" that Putin saw clearly, was the threat to Russia's border with Ukraine by anybody stacking up troops on that border.

Personally, I do believe Putin has acted accordingly.

U.V.
 
Such an intelligent, reasoned, kind yet not emotional woman. I always held her opinions in high regard. Triumphalism, great word, says so much.

Prior to this war, I remember saying "Don't poke the bear," that we were giving Russia reasons to act out. Sometimes I feel blackmailed by Ukraine, and more, more, more, like my guilt buttons are being pushed. Sometimes, only sometimes.

@UncleVinny you said ".....I deal with them all the time". Who do you mean? Russian people, living in America? Just guessing, as that is my situation where I am, I'm "outnumbered" at least 100 to 1.
 
Rattlesnakes. Western Pacific Rattlers, along with Mojave Greens. I have yet to see a green Mohave Green all up in here'a.

The Mojave Green's I've battled with up here have been kind of a pretty tan and mauve! Regardless the color their aggressiveness is a dead give-away that one is dealing with a Greenie!

As a rule I catch and release rattler's around here. I take them down the road a piece and cut them loose. But Mojave Green's are so ornery and highly deadly that I do not catch and release them. But I do catch them!!

U.V.
 
UncleVinny said:
Dave...The MSM cannot be trusted to report the truth on most anything. Last week they fessed up to blowing smoke on what is really happening in Ukraine. From the outset The MSM was reporting that Russia was getting B-Slapped by Ukraine. I for one knew better. I just accepted the reports coming from our side as...lies. And lies on anything and everything is pretty much par for the course now from our media and their owner operator's, who are mostly off shore.

If Putin really wanted to get that "mess" over with, he could do so in 2 shakes of a lamb's tail, and that is a fact. For the sake of argument he is going about that dirty business, slow and easy.

When it becomes clear that NATO will back off and stop trying to encroach on his border, he will call...Game Over and pull outta Ukraine.

U.V.
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I am hoping this will be the scenario. But, anything can happen now. I find it mind boggling how former "peace through negotiation" leaders are jumping ship, and approving billions of our tax dollars ( that are desperately needed at home ) without full congressional debate. There is no declaration of war, yet we are spending more than is reasonable to a small country half way around the world. This is an existential threat also. Last year more co2 PPM were higher than any other previous year. That will have its' climatic effect in 10 years. Inflation is sky rocketing because we have so many bottle necks that need attention.
It is possible that Putin would continue to swallow other countries, but I don't think the world would go along with that. Nuclear war has about a 10% chance...but it is more likely that once Russia accomplishes it's business the violence will subside.
 
"The Russians have been very careful to keep those numbers (deaths of Ukrainians) very low..."

Gee, how noble and compassionate of them.

That's as far as I got in the video. I'll read her article later, but as far as I'm concerned, Russia invading Ukraine is like a group of hoodlums invading your house. Do you negotiate with them and give them your TV and some cash, and perhaps one of your children so they're not humiliated? What's Vanden-heuvel's solution? What exactly did she propose Ukraine should do? Maybe she goes into that later in the video, but I got sick of listening to her.
 
UncleVinny said:
Knight, you are correct, there was no threat of an attack by NATO, The U.S., or Ukraine. The "threat" that Putin saw clearly, was the threat to Russia's border with Ukraine by anybody stacking up troops on that border.

Personally, I do believe Putin has acted accordingly.

U.V.
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I don't think I've ever read about the Ukraine stacking troops on Russia's border.
I have read where Russia stacked troops on Ukraine's border.

I'd be happy to read about The "threat" that Putin saw clearly, was the threat to Russia's border with Ukraine by anybody stacking up troops on that border.

Learning something is always a plus.

As for aiding Ukraine America isn't the only one, The UK & European countries are sacrificing too. And they are closer to what if anything Putin might decide to do.
 
Knight said:
I don't think I've ever read about the Ukraine stacking troops on Russia's border.
I have read where Russia stacked troops on Ukraine's border.

I'd be happy to read about The "threat" that Putin saw clearly, was the threat to Russia's border with Ukraine by anybody stacking up troops on that border.

Learning something is always a plus.

As for aiding Ukraine America isn't the only one, The UK & European countries are sacrificing too. And they are closer to what if anything Putin might decide to do.
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I said there was a THREAT perceived by Putin...."POTENTIAL THREAT" may have been clearer to you? "Anybody" was a nice way of saying NATO...without saying NATO, yeah huh?

Yup, Putin stacked troops up on the border before heading into Ukraine. T'was a good idea AND a warning shot over the bow of those on the opposite side of that border.

Again, I believe Putin to have been prudent to roll into Ukraine and near as I figger, that move was warranted. I don't expect anyone who does not do their homework AWAY from The Mainstream Media to agree with me.

U.V.
 
Knight said:
I'd be happy to read about The "threat" that Putin saw clearly
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The threat that he sees is the same one that you see.

Knight said:
America isn't the only one, The UK & European countries are sacrificing too.
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The US and NATO are threatening Russia by greatly increasing their weapons on Russia's borders.
That's an act of war, not a sacrifice, and Putin is rightly trying to defend his country from those threats.
Both the US and NATO have kept violating their long standing agreements, and now they've gone way too far.
Meanwhile the US government is spending billions of our hard earned savings to enrich their war machine profits.
.
 
Russian war crimes are a true indicator of the current Russian mindset. One of my vets, wounded in Ukraine, personally viewed bodies of civilians, men, women, and children who had been tortured and killed. Also, history teaches us the bitter cost of appeasement. In

my opinion, whoever Putin may have been, his recent behaviour stretches the bounds of rationality. Left unchecked, the Russian Bear will gobble up more territory in the years to come. Like other countries, we must also sacrifice, but Canada stands with Ukraine.
 
John cycling said:
The threat that he sees is the same one that you see.



The US and NATO are threatening Russia by greatly increasing their weapons on Russia's borders.
That's an act of war, not a sacrifice, and Putin is rightly trying to defend his country from those threats.
Both the US and NATO have kept violating their long standing agreements, and now they've gone way too far.
Meanwhile the US government is spending billions of our hard earned savings to enrich their war machine profits.
.
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What I think is not going to change anything that is happening between Russia & the Ukraine.
But the fact is Russia initiated a conflict based on his perception of something that would mean instead of attacking he would have to mount a defense. I admit I don't know what long standing agreements the US and NATO have kept violating.

Can you point out references I'd like to read about factual violations.
 
Shalimar said:
Russian war crimes are a true indicator of the current Russian mindset. One of my vets, wounded in Ukraine, personally viewed bodies of civilians, men, women, and children who had been tortured and killed. Also, history teaches us the bitter cost of appeasement. In

my opinion, whoever Putin may have been, his recent behaviour stretches the bounds of rationality. Left unchecked, the Russian Bear will gobble up more territory in the years to come. Like other countries, we must also sacrifice, but Canada stands with Ukraine.
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Well said @ Shalimar. Putin is an apex predator, it is he, not NATO or the U.S. that is the aggressor, despite how some warped media propaganda is trying to re-write the world view of reality.
 
Okay, I read her article and watched the video.

First of all, vanden Heuvel claims Zelenskyy refuses to negotiate with Putin. That is blatantly false unless she wants Zelenskyy to cede some of Ukraine, which he has ruled out, as he should.

Another impediment to negotiations is the fact that Putin has repeatedly shown that he can't be trusted. He agreed to a refugee corridor for women and children to flee to Poland and then he bombed the refugees! He's firing missiles at apartment buildings and killing people who are of no threat, whatsoever! That's with whom she wants to engage into negotiations? That makes about as much sense as the police in Uvalde negotiating with Salvador Ramos.

The argument she posits is that we shouldn't be involved, which I guess is a legitimate argument for those who don't care about people getting massacred and are simply looking out for U.S. interests, which is somewhat legitimate after our Iraq and Afghanistan fiascos. And Vietnam. We can do good in the world, though, as evidenced by what we did in the Balkans during the '90s, albeit we let the massacre there go on for several years before we intervened. That was a civil war. What's going on in Ukraine is simply one country invading another.

vanden Heuvel is advocating for appeasement of a bully — that we should simply stand back and allow him to do whatever he wants in hopes that by doing so, the price of oil will come down and food in Africa will once again be plentiful. And she's worried about the nuclear threat.

If we allow Ukraine to fall to Russia, how many innocents will be killed or imprisoned? And what's next for Russia? The Balkans? Poland? We need to stop Putin right now before things get totally out of control.
 
Nathan said:
A rattlesnake does not want any trouble, hence the rattle warning. To compare Putin with rattlesnakes seems fair, but that reflects a lack of understanding or respect for the rattlesnake. Putin is plain evil, rattlesnakes are not.
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Added to your impressive knowledge base that covers ALL things great and small, "Putin/Rattlesnake Expert" is gonna look mighty spiffy on your Resume there, Nathan boy!

U.V.
 

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