Language, proper and improper

Sunny

Sunny

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Is there such a thing as improper language? A recent thread about the use of a word generally considered profane made me think about the history of "verboten" language. I bet volumes could be written on the subject.

Every century, probably every generation has its collection of words that are considered impolite or vulgar. Some are more than just impolite, they are shocking, disgusting, etc,. Yet these words keep changing. Every generation has its collection of words that many people would never use, while many others make them a frequent (sometimes endless!) part of their language. TV has exacerbated this; some channels seem unable to function without the constant use of those words.

Some words change in their ability to shock. Think of all the different kinds of references to racial and religious groups. Those words are changing all the time. Not only the mean, insulting words, even the ones considered polite keep changing.

I wonder if anyone has ever written a book about words in common use now that were considered shocking or vulgar in previous centuries, but no one even blinks an eye today when they are used. I suspect that you couldn't politely say "underwear" in the 19th century. Maybe even "childbirth." It would be a funny list to contemplate. And it probably works in reverse also. Words that were once commonly used are now considered ugly, cruel, insulting, etc.

If you would like to discuss this, please avoid being specific about the words. I think it would be OK to have a general discussion about how "proper" language changes.
 

I can never understand how a word becomes unaccepted... I mean who says it's a bad word,.. but not just a bad word.. but a terrible word... I mean someone, somewhere has to decide this and have the sheep following along to agree...

How was the word invented in the first place... and who gave someone else the right to put a different meaning on it, and have it deemed not only inapropriate but in some case illegal


take the word Gay for example... now when I was growing up.. that was a girls name in fact it was a girl in my class ... it also meant happy, ... but then it was hi-jacked and became the description for a homosexual... and ultimately used in some cases as a derogatory term... Who decided that the Name Gay , could be used in such circumstances in the first place...?.. we have 26 letters in the alphabet, why are so many words hi-jacked for other uses, and very often derogatory ( rhetorical question obvs)
 
Speaking of hijacking names, how did the very common name Karen somehow become an insult? If there was a character on a TV show, and the name was commonly recognized, I could understand it, but I don't think there are any obnoxious, entitled TV characters named Karen that I've ever heard of. Somehow, the name became an insult overnight.
 
Sunny said:
Speaking of hijacking names, how did the very common name Karen somehow become an insult? If there was a character on a TV show, and the name was commonly recognized, I could understand it, but I don't think there are any obnoxious, entitled TV characters named Karen that I've ever heard of. Somehow, the name became an insult overnight.
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it certainly did... and with the name Dick too... and here in the UK many years ago the man's name Wally..which was short for Walter.. became a synonym for idotic people.. and has stuck to this day.. so no-one names their kids Walter or Wally..
 
DebraMae said:
Woke had an entirely different meaning, a positive one. Someone somewhere decided to use it as slang for something entirely derogatory.

When I grew up the word "queer" was derogatory. Now it is considered just a category and deemed OK.
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whereas when I was growing up the word Queer, simply meant '' odd/strange/ unusual...

That's a queer situation... for example...
 
I detest the co-opting of "they/them/their" by/for people who either don't identify as male or female, or choose not to disclose their gender identity.

I started reading a book in which the main character self-identified this way, but quit it within very short order. It was so confusing - I sometimes had to reread entire paragraphs to suss out exactly who/how many people were being discussed when more than one person was in the room.

If you don't feel comfortable using she/he, her/him I get it. Not throwing shade on that. But how about using dee/dem or kee/ker, or something?
 
Years ago, one of the cities here in Central Florida passed an ordinance banning profane language on bumper stickers. An overenthusiastic young patrolman pulled a car over for a sticker that said "Cuba Sucks" because apparently "sucks" was on the list.

What if I had a sticker that was touting my vacuum sweeper for being efficient..."My new Electrolux Sweeper sucks very strongly"?

Exactly when does a word become profane?

Oh, and the ticket was thrown out of court.
 
jujube said:
Years ago, one of the cities here in Central Florida passed an ordinance banning profane language on bumper stickers. An overenthusiastic young patrolman pulled a car over for a sticker that said "Cuba Sucks" because apparently "sucks" was on the list.

What if I had a sticker that was touting my vacuum sweeper for being efficient..."My new Electrolux Sweeper sucks very strongly"?

Exactly when does a word become profane?

Oh, and the ticket was thrown out of court.
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precisely.. what **head gets to decide what word becomes a swear word..?.. who gives them the right..?
 
jujube said:
What if I had a sticker that was touting my vacuum sweeper for being efficient..."My new Electrolux Sweeper sucks very strongly"?
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I suppose context.

Like many words - picking deliberately 'normal' word so it doesnt get bleeped out - for example, prick.

If I called somebody You are a prick - that is obviously different to medically describing finger prick blood sugar levels.

or bitch - - obviously rude and insulting t o call somebody that - but you might see it in a dog journal being used factually as a dog description

I'm sure there are many other such examples.
 
hollydolly said:
lol....however it is deemed to be a foul word almost everywhere... yet it is an adjective albeit archaeic meaning a child born outside of a marriage...
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My sister told me of an experience she had while in college in the mid 1960s. A group of students were hanging out, goofing off. One person jokingly called another one a bastard. The guy looked at him and quietly said, "I am, you know. Does it make a difference?"

I was only about 10 when she told me this, but that story made a deep impression on me. I've never, ever called anyone a bastard nor referred to anyone that way.
 
StarSong said:
My sister told me of an experience she had while in college in the mid 1960s. A group of students were hanging out, goofing off. One person jokingly called another one a bastard. The guy looked at him and quietly said, "I am, you know. Does it make a difference?"

I was only about 10 when she told me this, but that story made a deep impression on me. I've never, ever called anyone a bastard nor referred to anyone that way.
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we're British, many Brits and Australians use these words all the time.... tbh... I mean in varying degrees.... ..I was born out of wedlock, but my parents married soon after I was born....I wouldn't take offence at it..
 
This has mostly been a discussion of negative words but I'm just throwing this in for another angle: I don't really care for the current use of the word awesome. If someone makes a statement that's just a step above ordinary, often someone replies with, "Wow, that's Awesome!"

And language keeps evolving. Long ago the word "hussy" meant "housewife," or keeper of the house, but in today's world in conjures up thoughts of a cheap tramp.

The word "vulgar" generally referred to the common people, or lacking in class, but more often today (and for a long time now) it implies something sexually suggestive or indecent.
 
StarSong said:
I detest the co-opting of "they/them/their" by/for people who either don't identify as male or female, or choose not to disclose their gender identity.

I started reading a book in which the main character self-identified this way, but quit it within very short order. It was so confusing - I sometimes had to reread entire paragraphs to suss out exactly who/how many people were being discussed when more than one person was in the room.

If you don't feel comfortable using she/he, her/him I get it. Not throwing shade on that. But how about using dee/dem or kee/ker, or something?
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I absolutely agree. Them and Their are plurals. Period. It is totally confusing to apply those words to a single person whose gender you know. (We do use the plural form when we don't know the person's gender, such as "Someone must have left their wallet here on the table.")
 
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hollydolly said:
take the word Gay for example... now when I was growing up.. that was a girls name in fact it was a girl in my class ... it also meant happy, ... but then it was hi-jacked and became the description for a homosexual... and ultimately used in some cases as a derogatory term... Who decided that the Name Gay , could be used in such circumstances in the first place...?.. we have 26 letters in the alphabet, why are so many words hi-jacked for other uses, and very often derogatory ( rhetorical question obvs)
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On Martha's Vineyard there was a town called Gay Head. The area was first referred to as that by English settlers in the 1600s. This name was descriptive, referring to the "gaily multi-colored cliffs" seen from the sea.

One of the earliest known published uses referring to a homosexual relationship is in Gertrude Stein's story "Miss Furr & Miss Skeene" (1922), which subtly uses the word "gay" with a sexual intent . In 1998 they changed towns name from Gay Head to it's original Wampanoag indian name, Aquinnah. I am surprised it took them that long.
 
MACKTEXAS said:
This has mostly been a discussion of negative words but I'm just throwing this in for another angle: I don't really care for the current use of the word awesome. If someone makes a statement that's just a step above ordinary, often someone replies with, "Wow, that's Awesome!"

And language keeps evolving. Long ago the word "hussy" meant "housewife," or keeper of the house, but in today's world in conjures up thoughts of a cheap tramp.

The word "vulgar" generally referred to the common people, or lacking in class, but more often today (and for a long time now) it implies something sexually suggestive or indecent.
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.... and the over the use of the words..Like... and super !


Like this dress is super soft, and super colourful, like, and it hangs really like , super well ... ... and I like bought it in this super little store in like abroad .. when I was on this super break with like... my workmates who were all super funny, like... .
 
MoBeans said:
On Martha's Vineyard there was a town called Gay Head. The area was first referred to as that by English settlers in the 1600s. This name was descriptive, referring to the "gaily multi-colored cliffs" seen from the sea.

One of the earliest known published uses referring to a homosexual relationship is in Gertrude Stein's story "Miss Furr & Miss Skeene" (1922), which subtly uses the word "gay" with a sexual intent . In 1998 they changed towns name from Gay Head to it's original Wampanoag indian name, Aquinnah. I am surprised it took them that long.
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that's a brilliant little anecdote... love that !
 

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